Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Fortune: Bond Market Bloodbath Deepens

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Fortune: Bond Market Bloodbath Deepens

    Is this it? Did the American government just demonstrate that the only thing Republicans and Democrats can agree upon is to worsen our fiscal position, and did investors in Treasuries finally take note? Does this represent the beginnings of an external constraint upon American borrowing, such that very soon American politicians will no longer be able to offer their constituents pain-free choices financed by public debt?

    Or is this just a flash in the pan -- one more cry of "wolf" about bond vigilantes?

    Had stocks spiked upward at the same time that bond yields rose, it would be easier to believe that this is just about upbeat assessments of the stimulative impact of the tax cuts. I'm pretty sure this is about the deficit.

    I am really wondering if this is the turning point, and if the compromise between Congressional Republicans and the President has demonstrated that America lacks the political capacity to deal with its debt.

    Bond Market Bloodbath Deepens
    Treasury yields have surged this week, following a weak jobs report and news of a tax deal that will add to the deficit. Yields have been rising in Europe as well – even in austere Germany -- as the debt crisis ravaging Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Spain gathers steam.

    ...

    The yield on the 10-year Treasury note hit 3.27%, which puts it up more than 75 basis points, or hundredths of a percentage point, since it bottomed out in October's rush to buy bonds ahead of the Fed.

    Yields on German 10-year bonds have surged to six-month highs this week as well, amid questions about how the euro zone might resolve its galloping financial contagion.

    Global Bond Rout Deepens on US Fiscal Worries
    The yield on 10-year Treasuries – the benchmark price of money worldwide and the key driver of US mortgages rates – has rocketed to 3.3pc, up 35 basis points since President Barack Obama agreed on Monday to compromise with Senate Republicans on tax cuts.

    The Treasury sell-off has ricocheted through the global system, triggering bond sell-offs in Asia, Europe and Latin America. Japan's finance ministry braced as borrowing costs on seven-year debt jumped by a sixth in one trading session, while German Bunds punched through 3pc.

    ...

    The US tax deal adds $1 trillion of stimulus over two years, according to BNP Paribas. America's budget deficit will remain stuck near 10pc of GDP, not just in 2011 but also in 2012. This will push gross public debt to 110pc of GDP under the IMF definition, near the brink of a debt compound spiral. The contrast with fiscal tightening in Europe has become starkly evident.

    ...

    The standard rate for 30-year mortgages in US has moved up in tandem with Treasury yields. The rate has been creeping up ever since the US Federal Reserve first signalled plans for a fresh blast of quantitative easing, rising 85 basis points in three months.

    Personal note: My wife and I decided to buy a primary residence, and locked in a fixed rate 30-year mortgage in mid-October. I believe that real house prices will drop further, but I also think this was my best near-term entry point as far as mortgage rates go. Since we would have had to borrow a substantial amount of money to buy a house, even if real prices dropped a lot, we decided to pull the trigger while it was possible to finance on good terms. We're getting a much better house than the one we currently rent, and the fixed payment (principal + interest) is the same as our rent; net of taxes, maintenance, and equity we'll be coming out ahead. The other consideration is that the housing payment is less than a quarter of take-home income (without my wife working), so there is security in fixing our housing costs at a level that can be sustained on one income. We've avoided the "two income trap", and when she returns to work, we'll have redundancy. That said, I salute those renting iTulipers who are holding out for a better price level. I often exit a winning position earlier than optimal, and I wish you all the best.

  • #2
    Re: Fortune: Bond Market Bloodbath Deepens

    Good luck, Ash. Sounds as if, not surprisingly, you've done your homework.

    Tailoring a home purchase to your own circumstances is crucial in making it work.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Fortune: Bond Market Bloodbath Deepens

      The interest rates are rising everywhere, including Germany and Canada, so I would not think it is linked just to US policy or fiscal issues. It could be just another short term cyclical risk-aversion rush into the perceived safety of US Dollar cash.

      This would seem to be yet another bond market "conundrum" for the Fed though. I don't think this is quite what they were expecting when they announced QE2.

      Congrats on becoming part of the "Ownership Society" ;-) You and your wife have obviously thought this through and researched the decision, and you should feel completely comfortable with it as a result. Presumably there has been a healthy correction in house prices in your area from the peak, and I do think that the "national" effects of the acute financial crisis on housing have probably washed through the market. I would expect that there are going to be sharp differentials in housing markets across the country going forward with local factors such as income levels, demographics, population migration patterns, reasserting themselves. Even in Detroit, how much worse can it possibly get?
      Last edited by GRG55; December 08, 2010, 07:12 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Fortune: Bond Market Bloodbath Deepens

        Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
        The interest rates are rising everywhere, including Germany and Canada, so I would not think it is linked just to US policy or fiscal issues. It could be just another short term cyclical risk-aversion rush into the perceived safety of US Dollar cash.
        Good point about this happening around the world. But if this is just short term risk aversion, it is still interesting that some risk is being perceived in dollar-denominated Treasuries. Formerly, the risk aversion flow makes Treasury yields drop.

        Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
        This would seem to be yet another bond market "conundrum" for the Fed though. I don't think this is quite what they were expecting when they announced QE2.
        It could give Congress and the President some food for thought, too, if this turns out to be a longer-term trend, and yields keep rising.

        I wonder if the "least ugly" contest is being lost by multiple governments all at once, and no one is to be crowned the winner.

        Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
        Congrats on becoming part of the "Ownership Society" ;-) ... Even in Detroit, how much worse can it possibly get?
        Well, neither the walking dead nor Visigoths have actually showed up in Detroit yet, so there's that to look forward to.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Fortune: Bond Market Bloodbath Deepens

          Originally posted by ASH View Post
          ...Personal note: My wife and I decided to buy a primary residence, and locked in a fixed rate 30-year mortgage in mid-October. I believe that real house prices will drop further, but I also think this was my best near-term entry point as far as mortgage rates go...
          Comparing our median home prices to gold, it's not such a bad time to buy, though I think lower prices will come. Many factors to consider in buying a home though, and I'm sure you've weighed them all. There is flexibility in renting, but also uncertainty; "will the landlord raise the rent?" Or even "will the landlord default on their mortgage and I'll have to move?"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Fortune: Bond Market Bloodbath Deepens

            Imagine, if you would, what a 10% ten-year U.S. treasury bond might do to home prices. That might mean, 13% mortgage rates, or maybe even higher?

            And then as mortgages rates go up, the market for municipal bonds collapses. Then Bernanke prints and buys bonds, and the entire system collapses. China and Saudi-Arabia stop buying and start dumping.

            Then the dollar collapses. The only way out for Bernanke is to fake the QE and let the market push rates up, slowly. The new $100 bills stay in a Fed vault.

            No-one could be this stupid..... Why was he teaching economics at Princeton?

            Bernanke's legacy was that he gave the biggest bankers a free-ride: a 4% guaranteed return on money from the U.S. Treasury..... Everyone else and everything else went down-the-drain.

            I think Bernanke will be history, and soon. Too bad he won't be dumped on his duff into the unemployment line.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Fortune: Bond Market Bloodbath Deepens

              bill fleckenstein has long called the reflex risk-off purchase of treasuries a "flight to QUANTITY," simultaneously spoofing the usual description and pointing to the flood of paper. with the global realization that modern paper currencies are everywhere and always, first and foremost paper, the prospect of being paid down the line with a few more pieces of paper is making bonds less and less attractive. to this is added an increasing realization in some places [e.g. many european sovereigns] that you might not be paid what you expect, even in paper. in the eurozone it's not just the periphery's bonds that are selling off. bund yields are rising as well. meanwhile gold is correcting a bit from recent nominal highs, and oil is just shy of 90/bbl. the world is slowly waking up, rousing from fuzzy dreams of business as usual, to the nightmare of its financial dilemma. this process will take a lot more time, i think. what is unfolding is the beginnings of what fleck calls the funding crisis, the 3rd game in the triple header of financial crisis, economic crisis, funding crisis.

              in the meantime, ash, you've nailed down a major expense and i am sure - knowing you - found a pleasant and comfortable place to raise your family. and i continue to think that fixed rate debt, such as you are taking on, will turn into a major win via inflation. enjoy your new digs.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Fortune: Bond Market Bloodbath Deepens

                Good move on the house purchase.
                If we get the Big Inflation, you'll be paying your mortgage back pennies on the dollar in a few years.

                Regards the bond thing, here's Krugman's take on it:
                Bond Vigilantes, Still Invisible


                10-year bond rates

                US long-term interest rates have risen somewhat in the wake of the debt deal — and sure enough, we’re hearing warnings about “bond vigilantes” again.
                OK, guys, first of all: interest rates have soared back to their levels of …. June.
                Beyond that, it has been very clear, if you watch the ups and downs of long-term rates, that they reflect just one thing: perceived prospects for recovery, and hence when you might expect the Fed to move off the zero-rate policy. Rates began rising a few weeks ago as data began to suggest a somewhat stronger recovery than previously anticipated (stronger, not strong — we’re still looking at years of very high unemployment). They rose again in the past couple of days on the belief that the stimulus part of the tax deal would actually lift the economy to some extent.
                What is true is that perpetuating the Bush tax cuts raises the probability of a fiscal crisis somewhere down the line; it’s very different from short-term stimulus spending, because it raises the prospect of a permanent worsening of the outlook. But that’s not what is moving markets now.

                raja
                Boycott Big Banks • Vote Out Incumbents

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Fortune: Bond Market Bloodbath Deepens

                  I think you nailed the timing, ASH. I have a rental house that I was thinking about refinancing from the already ridiculously low rates I have, just because the rates were becoming even more ridiculous. I wish I had pulled the trigger in mid-October. Instead I waited thinking that the QE2 announcement would drive 10-year bond yield, and hence mortgage rates, lower. If I'd been thinking about it the market was baking in the QE2 announcement in mid-October, and when the announcement came the yield started ticking up, as have mortgage rates. So the notion of refinancing might be off the table.

                  Good timing!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Fortune: Bond Market Bloodbath Deepens

                    Originally posted by Prazak View Post
                    I think you nailed the timing, ASH. I have a rental house that I was thinking about refinancing from the already ridiculously low rates I have, just because the rates were becoming even more ridiculous. I wish I had pulled the trigger in mid-October. Instead I waited thinking that the QE2 announcement would drive 10-year bond yield, and hence mortgage rates, lower. If I'd been thinking about it the market was baking in the QE2 announcement in mid-October, and when the announcement came the yield started ticking up, as have mortgage rates. So the notion of refinancing might be off the table.

                    Good timing!
                    x2. Its just as likely that rents will go up with interest rates. So nailing down the cost of a place to live is a big plus. And unless you plan to move soon, any fluctuation in price won't matter anyway.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Fortune: Bond Market Bloodbath Deepens

                      Congratulations ASH!

                      Myself, I still prefer both the flexibility and clear thinking offered by renting.

                      When (and hopefully, if) it is time to go, I won't be anchored by considerations of leaving 'our house'.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X