Spiegel's overview of US decline

[c1ue]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

Part of the problem we now face is the death of god to which Nietzsche eluded in the 19th century. A new religion must be founded, that philosophy for the future.

Wow. Can we say: National Liberation - the Libertarian version of National Socialism?

The function of Tyranny, ultimately, is to control the vast numbers of the rabble who turn into animals when the fruits of civilization can no longer contain them. Historically, before the entirety of the world was populated, their numbers would dwindle rapidly as they lacked the discipline, imagination, and foresight to practice agriculture or otherwise organize themselves to survive. A new aristocracy had but to wait until the wreckage of civilization allowed for them to rebuild something new.

And who's going to be that Cincinnatus of America? You?

Sorry, but I completely disagree with your outlook and prescription to fix same.

[Mn_Mark]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

I agree with much of what Serge says - the liberal worldview is unworkable because it doesn't take into consideration what human beings are actually like. It focuses on hedonism and ignores the importance of family and one's people. Its economic principles are nuts. Liberalism is a well-intentioned ideal hatched in the rarified air of academia and is going to destroy itself. Our challenge is not to let it take the rest of us down with it.

But I detect in Serge's comments a large dose of Eastern European/Russian-style bleakness and pessimism. I see this in other Eastern European whites who I've met here. The white people of the East have been brutalized by their contacts with the Huns and the Moslems over the centuries and they've adopted a very pessimistic view of life as a result, in order to protect themselves. Serge's statements about how life is suffering is a perfect encapsulation of that view. His conviction that we are heading inevitably for tyranny, and his prescription of various strong-arm, tyrannous actions to solve the problems of society is very Russion, very Eastern European.

But that worldview is not what made America the success it has been. The Founders didn't think like Serge, thank god. There is an optimism at the core of the traditional American worldview...that life is good, that fairness and tranquility and prosperity and safety are possible. I think that the people of a society have to basically believe those optimistic things in their hearts or they will quickly go for the tyrannical solutions....and you end up with Bolshevik-style revolutions where people are killed and freedoms are eliminated "for the common good".

The Northern European/British civilizational worldview that America took and refined and succeeeded phenomenally with is what we need to return to. No other worldview has worked like ours has, or has made civilizations so appealing that people from all over the rest of the world want to emigrate to the West. Latin Americans have never benn able to do it. Asians have never been able to do it. (Japanese are close, by copying us.) Africans sure the hell never were able to do it. We did it. We built the best societies in history. And we need to step back from the leftist/liberal/egalitarian experiment of the last 80-100 years and get back to what made us great, which is a primary emphasis on freedom over equality. We don't need to adopt some kind of Easter/Latin-style dictatorship to clean things up. That's not our style.

Don't throw the freedom/capitalism/traditional American baby out with the liberal/socialist bathwater.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

Wow. Can we say: National Liberation - the Libertarian version of National Socialism?

The triumph of the "will" is just as ridiculous as the triumph of diversity, tolerance, and all that other jazz. So, the answer is no. Also, "liberty" is itself a liberal concept. Those words are related (duh).

Freedom and liberty are illusions, and are at the root if it, the reason why liberalism become so insane over time. You might as well strive to walk to the moon.



[nope]And who's going to be that Cincinnatus of America? You?

Sorry, but I completely disagree with your outlook and prescription to fix same.[/QUOTE]

I think you misunderstand. I'm not prescribing a *solution*. I'm telling you how it's going to be. The best that we can hope for is prevent the worst and most destructive kind of tyrant. I gave my quick ideas on how to do that.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

The best response so far, despite my disagreeing with much of it.

I do admit, I am greatly influenced by Lenin.

[oddlots]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

When my mother was in HR at a British manufacturing giant they had a policy not to hire "blacks." Such a thing is unthinkable today. That is progress in my lifetime.

It really shouldn't take much imagination to put yourselves in the shoes of someone who has been excluded. If you can only see them as a competitor and therefore a threat, think of their children: with each generation there is a new crop of talent and drive. What possible good would it do the world to not try and ensure that all talents are given a full opportunity to flourish?

I'm at a loss as to how to explain Serge's cynicism and I honestly think it's been bought on the cheap. A pose in other words.

The obvious tell is the ridiculous - can he be serious? - "ladies man" quips. I stopped reading at that point. It disturbs me that so many others didn't.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

I stopped reading at that point. It disturbs me that so many others didn't.

I find it to be a more important decision whether I respond, not whether I read.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

When my mother was in HR at a British manufacturing giant they had a policy not to hire "blacks." Such a thing is unthinkable today. That is progress in my lifetime.

You're free to immigrate to Africa any time you like. No one is stopping you. That said, employment rates for blacks in the US have plummeted since the Civil Rights Act. When the federal government collapses, virtually none will have jobs. So, your notion of progress is purely imaginary - it has no basis in reality.

It really shouldn't take much imagination to put yourselves in the shoes of someone who has been excluded. If you can only see them as a competitor and therefore a threat, think of their children: with each generation there is a new crop of talent and drive. What possible good would it do the world to not try and ensure that all talents are given a full opportunity to flourish?

Humans are political animals. That is the nature of existence. Your fight is not against evil heretics like myself, but human nature.

I'm at a loss as to how to explain Serge's cynicism and I honestly think it's been bought on the cheap. A pose in other words.

The obvious tell is the ridiculous - can he be serious? - "ladies man" quips. I stopped reading at that point. It disturbs me that so many others didn't.

A pose? Sheesh.

I guess someone has spent his life getting suckered by feminist hustlers and now has some injured pride!

[chr5648]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

Humans are political animals. That is the nature of existence. Your fight is not against evil heretics like myself, but human nature.

That reminds me of office politics, how many times do you see competent people or great ideas pushed to the side, under the bus, or fired due to the political nature of humans.

[oddlots]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

I find it to be a more important decision whether I respond, not whether I read.

Point taken.