Spiegel's overview of US decline

[jpatter666]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

Hell yes! Some kids just grunt when I speak to them. Perhaps they have been so trained not to speak to strangers that they can't distinguish between a stranger and their neighbor. I guess the parents just assume they will figure out on their own how to look an adult in the eye and speak in a proper manner. I've noticed some kids absolutely freeze up and freak out when you say hello to them. Or they'll act as if you are not there. I work in people's homes. Teenage kids and 20 somethings will sleep in until noon. They pretend I'm not there and go about making "breakfast" while I'm working 2 feet away. But cut the power to their TV and then I get a response!

You *really* want to get a response, kill the cell phone (or take away its texting ability).

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

Is there "a religious notion of man" that does not "contradict reality" ?

Put another way, is there a socially organizing principle that shows fealty to reality?

To your first question, the imprecision of real religions inherently allows for a moderation between human nature and our rational faculties. Liberalism is not really a religion because it denies human nature and instead upholds the tabula rasa fiction. The problem is that its adherents strive to impose this view with a religious fervor. This is necessary because it is so radical, so preposterous that it cannot be imposed through any other means besides oppression.

To your second question, I have not much time, but if you mean *exclusively* reality - no. The human soul does not operate in that fashion, as all that makes life worth living is far outside the purview of scientists. Radical attempts at establishing such a society, whether communism or liberal democracy, are dismal failures of human misery, vice, and depravity. There are no success stories.

The reason that showing fealty to reality is not possible for a dominant ethic is that humans are only partially rational. The role of religion is a bridge between our rational faculty and human nature. To have a religious notion, i.e. a dominant ethic that tells people how to live and an explanation for why it should be so, cannot function if it denies human nature.

To say that humans don't need family, community, and ultimately a nation is as ridiculous as saying humans don't need to drink water or breath air. It is preposterous.

But this is why liberalism has become increasingly intolerant and oppressive.

Part of the problem we now face is the death of god to which Nietzsche eluded in the 19th century. A new religion must be founded, that philosophy for the future.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

Universities reduced to technical trade schools. Interesting concept.

Wonder how much more I'm going to have to pay a plumber with an Ivy League diploma...

The very fact you believe that such occupations require a college degree means you are part of the problem.

[GRG55]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

the very fact you believe that such occupations require a college degree means you are part of the problem.

rofl...

You seem to take yourself and your prescriptions far too seriously. That's your business.

But I suggest you not take me the same way...

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

Serge, do you have a sense of how long that phase will last and how it will transition into a healthy society? In other words, how much worse does it have to get until it gets better?

The cycle of civilzation is Aristocracy -> Monarchy -> Democracy -> Tyranny

The function of Tyranny, ultimately, is to control the vast numbers of the rabble who turn into animals when the fruits of civilization can no longer contain them. Historically, before the entirety of the world was populated, their numbers would dwindle rapidly as they lacked the discipline, imagination, and foresight to practice agriculture or otherwise organize themselves to survive. A new aristocracy had but to wait until the wreckage of civilization allowed for them to rebuild something new.

Today however, the rabble numbers in the billions.

Chances are, you will not survive to see that new future. But unless people who have discipline, imagination, and dedication are willing to sacrifice their lives to be remembered as amongst those who cared more about the future than the present, all will be lost.

You cannot choose time time in which you are born. At the same time, like all humans, you will die. You can either await death by wasting your life with the hedonistic values upheld by liberal democracy, or you strive for the immortality of which I speak. Personally, I would much rather die knowing that I lived for the greatest values of which human existence is capable: truth, beauty, honor, courage, and all the rest. To die knowing you've done nothing but indulged in the decadent pleasures of the flesh is tantamount to hell.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

rofl...

You seem to take yourself and your prescriptions far too seriously. That's your business.

But I suggest you not take me the same way...

I'm here to debate ideas. If I wanted to engage in witty, meaningless banter, I would do it with a beautiful woman who just might make my night a lot more interesting than anything you could possibly type.

[oddlots]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

Just sayin.

[GRG55]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

I'm here to debate ideas. If I wanted to engage in witty, meaningless banter, I would do it with a beautiful woman who just might make my night a lot more interesting than anything you could possibly type.

That you seriously think I was trying to be witty with the post that started this brief exchange shows how little you really do understand...

[Jeff]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

The best we can hope for is to guide this process towards peaceful ends, and a simple way to do this is to eliminate distracting rival groups or ideals around which false tyrants can rally people. there are a couple of practical solutions.

1) Immigration must be halted now. Ideally, low-iq groups should be deported as the social services necessary to buy their submission will no longer exist. There need not be a race war, but particularly with revanchist hispanics, it seems to be an easy path for a dedicated tyrant.

And that's how you'd proceed absent a tyrant?

[Penguin]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

Damn! We got doom coming through in Surround Sound tonight.

I don't know if I am qualified to try and talk a few of you off the ledge, but I do believe you have underestimated humans in general and Americans in particular. I won't try to tell you that the animal does not exist in our souls, but he does not dwell there alone. And humanity is not entirely without the tools to keep his passion within bounds.

For every man who will steal the hubcaps off of your car there is another who will stop and help you change a flat. For every man who unleashes the animal and preys upon his own species there have been 100 who waded in to the beach head under fire at Tarawa (or Normandy, or Okinawa, or Saipan, etc, etc, etc) to lay down his life for his country. For every story you can tell me about someone who squandered lifes chances I can tell you one about someone who achieved far and away more than his background or early returns would have led you to believe.

So we need to put a lid on a lot of this apocalyptic nonsense. Sure we're in a hell of a spot right now and yes the pain is going to have to be dealt with. But if you honestly think the American people are going to go Hitler because of a bunch of bad real estate deals you need to get outside and get some fresh air. Not gonna happen.

We have a lot of deep seated problems that have to be dealt with. Many of them the result of trying to integrate a lot of lost and wayward countries into the modern world without laying the necessary foundation. We didn't do our homework and made one hell of a mess. Worse we have allowed a parasitic and entrenched elite to lay siege to our government. And even worse we had those who should have been protecting the herd prostitute themselves and their profession to give them academic cover. I'll grant you we have some real problems to deal with.

But if you go to the root of the problem, and I mean the very root of it, what do you find? You find an elite who believes we cannot handle the truth and tells us lies that they believe are in our best interest:

'Globalization will profit everyone' not 'Your standard of living will probably drop as we integrate this huge, poor workforce into the global economy but we need to do so for long term stability'

'Our future is a service economy' not 'We are going to sell out American heavy industry because that is the quickest way to allow backward and unsophisticated countries to grow their workforce: give it to them.'

'Free trade is good for everyone' not 'Those other countries are going to game the rules and it will hurt you but we are going to turn a blind eye to it.'

You name the problems we face and I'll bet that a vigorous and energetic debate that shed light on the issue would have made the outcome a lot better. The problem isn't that people are unable to understand the issues it is that they have grown soft and disengaged from the process. The problem isn't that money has made a mockery of our political system it is that we as a society have stopped making statesmen and men with integrity to stand up to them.

Sure the problems are great but please let's have some perspective. We haven't got families starving in the streets en masse and the odds are we won't. Going Mad Max and poisoning the well of good will around us won't help a damned thing. Righteous anger is one thing but all of this woe is me the sky is falling bullshit is something else. We need to put the stopper back in that bottle right now.

IMvHO that is.

Will

[swgprop]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

Personally, I would much rather die knowing that I lived for the greatest values of which human existence is capable: truth, beauty, honor, courage, and all the rest. To die knowing you've done nothing but indulged in the decadent pleasures of the flesh is tantamount to hell.

As for me personally, I have not had an easy life. I have never had the delusion that the future is going to be wonderful, that all my dreams will come true, and we will forever have a land of endless sunshine and free ice cream. Yet, it has hardened me to the point I have become a man who has no problem attracting beautiful women to me. I have come to find joy in the simplest of experiences whether it is reading a book, making a meal, or sipping a cheap glass of wine. I can see great beauty in the every day, which fortunately is very abundant here in New York City in our many crumbling parks and old buildings.

You're an interesting guy Serge. Your posts both intrigue me and spring my bullshit meter. Ah well, enjoy your beautiful women without indulging in decadent pleasures of the flesh.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

That you seriously think I was trying to be witty with the post that started this brief exchange shows how little you really do understand...

Thanks for waisting 15 seconds of my time. You're on my ignore list now. Goodbye.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

You're an interesting guy Serge. Your posts both intrigue me and spring my bullshit meter. Ah well, enjoy your beautiful women without indulging in decadent pleasures of the flesh.

Note the "nothing but"

[GRG55]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

Thanks for waisting 15 seconds of my time. You're on my ignore list now. Goodbye.

I think some of what you write is thought provoking. I also think some of what you write is complete hooey. My first post in this string was a gentle, but deadly serious poke at an exceedingly silly idea.

That you chose to ignore the point and personalize your response...

The very fact you believe that such occupations require a college degree means you are part of the problem.

...was your choice. My own experience is that people with strong conviction in their ideas and positions, and a genuine interest in debating same, don't normally need to do that.

You do seem to take yourself and your prescriptions too seriously...but as I said that's your business.

I have a firm conviction that anyone that claims to know "the truth" is a charlatan. Religious leader, politician, professor, fellow iTuliper...it doesn't matter.

[flintlock]

Re: Spiegel's overview of US decline

"you just made the list buddy"