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  • Danger, Will Robinson!






    NASA’s Quest to Send a Robot to the Moon

    By KENNETH CHANG

    For $150 billion, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration could have sent astronauts back to the Moon. The Obama administration judged that too expensive, and in September, Congress agreed to cancel the program.

    For a fraction of that — less than $200 million, along with about $250 million for a rocket — NASA engineers at the Johnson Space Center in Houston say they can safely send a humanoid robot to the Moon. And they say they could accomplish that in a thousand days.

    The idea, known as Project M, is almost a guerrilla effort within NASA, cooked up a year ago by Stephen J. Altemus, the chief engineer at Johnson. He tapped into discretionary money, pulled in engineers to work on it part time, and horse-traded with companies and other NASA units to undertake preliminary planning and tests. “We’re doing impossible things with really very little, if any, money whatsoever,” Mr. Altemus said.

    A humanoid dextrous robot — at least the top half — already exists: Robonaut 2, developed by NASA and General Motors, is packed on the shuttle Discovery, scheduled for liftoff on Wednesday.

    Bound for the International Space Station, it will be the first humanoid robot in space. It is to help with housekeeping chores at the space station as NASA learns how astronauts and robots can work together. Eventually, an upgraded Robonaut is to take part in spacewalks.






    Project M also draws on other NASA projects that were already under way, including rocket engines that burn liquid oxygen and methane — a cheap and nontoxic fuel combination — and an automated landing system that could avoid rocks, cliffs and other hazards.

    Integrating the technologies into working prototypes sped up development. “That’s the magic,” Mr. Altemus said. “A lot of times technologies end up in the lab cooking, and then there’s this valley of death where they never get to maturation or to flight.”

    Project M’s planners say that a robot walking on the Moon would capture the imagination of students, just as the Apollo Moon landings inspired a generation of scientists and engineers 40 years ago.

    “I think that’s going to light a few candles,” said Neil Milburn, vice president of Armadillo Aerospace, a tiny Texas company working on Project M.

    But as NASA’s attention turns away from the Moon — “We’ve been there before,” President Obama declared in April — the prospects for sending a robot there are at best uncertain.

    The quandary over Project M encapsulates many of the continuing debates over the future of the space agency: What should NASA be told to do when there is not enough money to do everything? What is the best way to spur advances in space technologies? And given the costs and dangers, how important is it to send people into space at all?

    “The tricky part is whether it fits in the agency’s framework for exploration,” Mr. Altemus said.

    Last year, a blue-ribbon panel was reviewing NASA’s human spaceflight program, in particular an ambitious project called Constellation to send astronauts back to the Moon. Although NASA has spent $10 billion on Constellation, most of the program is to be canceled when Congress finishes work on the 2011 budget.

    Mr. Altemus, for one, was frustrated by criticism of NASA that emerged during the Constellation debate and elsewhere. “I always felt like our organization was a Ferrari, and we were never allowed to drive with our foot on the gas,” he said. “We were kind of at idle speed all the time.”

    Talking to his son at his kitchen table, Mr. Altemus wanted something that was exciting but not so big that it would require years of deliberation. The idea popped into his head: a walking robot on the Moon, one that could send back live video, in a thousand days.

    Mr. Altemus took it to his staff the next day, telling them, “Let’s do something amazing.”

    He recalled: “I said, ‘Will you get behind me if I put this into the organization? I don’t know if we can do it. I don’t know if we’ll get the money for it or will get approved — let’s try.’ And so we just started, and it caught like wildfire.”

    Sending a robot to the Moon is far easier than sending a person. For one, a robot does not need air or food. And there is no return trip.

    The thousand-day deadline was arbitrary, said R. Matthew Ondler, Project M’s manager. “It creates this sense of urgency,” he explained. “NASA is at its best when it has a short time to figure out things. You give us six or seven years to think about something, and we’re not so good. Administrations change and priorities of the country change, and so it’s hard to sustain things for that long.”

    For the purpose of aiding science education, a thousand days fit easily into the four years that a student spends in high school or college. By contrast, even if NASA achieved Mr. Obama’s stated goal of sending astronauts to an asteroid by 2025, a 7-year-old today would have already graduated from college.

    To get the parts they need, Mr. Altemus and Mr. Ondler have resorted to barter. Boston Power gave them a $300,000 prototype of an advanced lithium battery in exchange for engineering help on battery management issues.

    “It was an easy trade, so we made several deals like that,” Mr. Ondler said.
    Armadillo provided a prototype it had built for a lunar lander competition, and NASA exchanged engine technology and access to test facilities.

    NASA also paid Armadillo about $1 million, but NASA’s traditional development processes would have cost more and taken longer. In six months, the lander flew 18 times under tether and twice in free flight.

    Not all the flights went perfectly, which was the point. “It’s O.K. to put a hole in the ground once in a while,” Mr. Ondler said. “It’s O.K. to have flame coming out of the wrong end of the engine once in a while, as long as we’re learning quickly and building and iterating.”

    Mr. Ondler told the story of an engineer going to Home Depot to buy about $80 worth of materials to test whether fuel sloshing in the tanks could destabilize the lander during descent. “From that, we were able to confirm our math models and design the full-scale test,” he said, all in two weeks.

    Project M slipped under the radar of everyone else in NASA, including the administrator, Maj. Gen. Charles F. Bolden Jr. In February, in response to a question about projects that NASA might undertake with other nations, General Bolden cited a two-legged robot that the Japanese space agency wants to send to the Moon by 2020.

    “Do I think I can do that?” General Bolden said. “Probably not.”

    At that time, the Project M team was hoping to get a go-ahead to start in March and accomplish the robotic Moon landing by the end of 2012.

    Despite the sophistication of the project, the robot’s capabilities would be slight compared with what a human could do on the lunar surface. Project M was conceived as a technology demonstration, not a scientific mission.

    One of the main tasks envisioned for the robot would be to simply pick up a rock and drop it, as part of an education program broadcast to schools. Students could do the same and compare the relative gravity of Earth.

    Work continues on Project M, which has cost about $9 million so far. Armadillo is building a second prototype lander, but there is no money for other aspects, like finishing the legs for Robonaut. Mr. Obama’s vision for NASA called for investing $16 billion over five years for space technologies, but the compromise blueprint drawn up by Congress shifts most of the money to a heavy-lift rocket.

    The project did spark interest among the International Space Station managers, which is why a Robonaut is heading there. “I’m excited to see how we can evolve the technology in space and actually have a pair of hands and a working humanoid dextrous robot on the space station,” Mr. Altemus said. “It’s a big move forward for the agency.”

    But for now, the plans for sending one to the Moon are on the back burner.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/02/sc...=1&ref=science


    Overflowing with provocative ideas....

  • #2
    Re: Danger, Will Robinson!

    Gee only half a billion, what a deal! Why not send two at that price? I have a better idea. Give the $450 million back to the people who actually earned it and go get a job in the real world where those Gee Whiz gizmos make it only if they can be shown to be economically viable.

    “I’m excited to see how we can evolve the technology in space and actually have a pair of hands and a working humanoid dextrous robot on the space station,” Mr. Altemus said. “It’s a big move forward for the agency.”
    Cyborg smut?
    Last edited by flintlock; November 02, 2010, 09:21 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Danger, Will Robinson!

      Oh my. Earned it how? By drafting behind the fed buying crap, private sector securities on the rebound with fed-provided liquidity for instance (e.g.: Pimpco, the largest bondholders in the US, or any FDIC backed bank or (cough) and trading company rebirthed as a bank-holding company), securities that only made sense because they were derivatives of the dollar standard, surely the principal offense against Ricardian free-market principles if not the free market principles of the US.

      Let me get this straight: you have a panorama of malfeasance and fraud like this and you lock onto NASA as a target?

      Who are these paragons of virtue that have somehow stayed above the fray? Please call them up that they might be elected to office post-haste.

      And please, could you tell me how "Gee Whiz gizmos" like Predator Drones have survived in the "real world?" Do you really think they are in any measurable way more economically "viable" or less reliant on subsidies than the robot envisioned above? If not, could you please refer me to your outraged posts on their funding?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Danger, Will Robinson!

        Sending robots instead of humans is absolutely the way to go. The only reason we sent humans is that our robot technology was so inadequate.

        There are thousands of satellites in orbit, we can see to the end of the Universe and the beginning of Time. We can detect molecules in other galaxies. Where did all these devices come from? The robots on the Moon themselves may not produce a lot for now, but all prototypes are like this. There seems to be relatively huge amounts of water under the lunar regolith, and robots could go a long way to determining how extensive that is.

        One of the greatest discoveries of the last 20 years is that if you try to insert a gene into a petunia to make the flower more purple, the result is a white flower. Huh? This is what led to the discovery of RNAi, RNA inactivation, a technique that may one day control or even cure a number of genetic diseases and greatly deepened our understanding of antiviral mechanisms in cells. All that from a horticulture experiment with a flower, followed by a Nobel Prize.

        LEDs were for a long time just a dim red light on your stereo; now they are lighting the world, especially the developing countries. In Japan, they are more than 70% of lighting sales while cutting energy use by 80% for each unit sold. I think Japan is about to undergo complete conversion to LEDs over the next 3 years.

        The cost to deliver robots to the Moon is really trivial. They are the prototypes of robots that will be sent to Mars.
        The Chinese are developing such robots. If one wants to consider the implications, if one can control a robot on the Moon, one can certainly control a robot in orbit to attack satellites.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Danger, Will Robinson!

          Originally posted by oddlots View Post
          Oh my. Earned it how? By drafting behind the fed buying crap, private sector securities on the rebound with fed-provided liquidity for instance (e.g.: Pimpco, the largest bondholders in the US, or any FDIC backed bank or (cough) and trading company rebirthed as a bank-holding company), securities that only made sense because they were derivatives of the dollar standard, surely the principal offense against Ricardian free-market principles if not the free market principles of the US.

          Let me get this straight: you have a panorama of malfeasance and fraud like this and you lock onto NASA as a target?

          Who are these paragons of virtue that have somehow stayed above the fray? Please call them up that they might be elected to office post-haste.

          And please, could you tell me how "Gee Whiz gizmos" like Predator Drones have survived in the "real world?" Do you really think they are in any measurable way more economically "viable" or less reliant on subsidies than the robot envisioned above? If not, could you please refer me to your outraged posts on their funding?
          Earned it like I DID: by working 50 hour weeks, 52 weeks each year (no vacations), saving 1/3rd of their income so they would have seed capital to start a business, and when they did start a business - they then worked 70 hour weeks.

          I didn't make what I have by collusion and fraud, and neither did the overwhelming majority of those who have succeeded. They are small business owners, and they didn't build it to serve as a milk-cow for every redistributionist scheme that Neosocialist Congressmen could dream up - not to mention the uneconomical, insane "investments" sold by these twits that Flint referred to.

          BTW, I opposed the Messinpotamia (Iraq War) from the beginning, but predator drones have saved AMERICAN lives; and while I hate the Warfare State/Empire, I do value American lives first.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Danger, Will Robinson!

            The NASA part out of a tax bill of say $5,400 is $28.

            I think the IRS should send out a receipt like this because there is a lot of distortion in what people think goes where.

            http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...ould-the-.html

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Danger, Will Robinson!

              My point was to ask why target this - NASA - for one's outrage when we are surrounded by a Bosch-like landscape of predatory, fraudulent behaviour. If one had to choose between a) bailing out TBTF banks and finance scams of every possible stripe (title insurance companies are the latest) at the expense of taxpayers and b) employing some engineers at NASA, I know which seems more suspect to me. It just seems very, very odd to me that "earning" your income - i.e., private sector per se - can be reified into some touchstone of legitimacy in this environment.

              The point of the predator drone reference was to say that some government sponsored work - and thus I assume "illegitimate" by the logic above - seems sacrosanct. My point was not to say that the program was somehow suspect but, rather, the fact that it and military spending in general somehow falls outside the "kill zone" of anti-government rage seems hypocritical.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Danger, Will Robinson!

                A Rocket Scientist here -

                I'll be the first to admit there is no economic return from human spaceflight outside of R&D migrating to consumer needs and products (and it sure does), but for a once-great nation like America, it was one of the few truly noble things left to take on. And we could afford it when we managed our books right (Apollo 8 went to the moon in a year we ran a surplus). It also IMHO represents that vision which "For lack of a vision, the people perish". It inspires young and old and challenges the mind and will. Sending robots to other worlds is good (we do it now although they are not androids), but it just doesn't cut it. he final challenge is to go there (and that means in the flesh).

                Moot piont now. We spent the last 40 years paying for welfare meals, Lego government housing for minorities to tear apart, granny's dentures, and killing good men on foreign battlefields instead of just nuking a few cities to make a point. "No! Bad Muslin! No coffee!" And Nixon's decision to scrap the Saturn V system was the biggest f***ing engineering boner ever made by a human being.

                We could have add a vibrant space program, but we decided to pay people to unproductive and morally bankrupt, and then we paid them to raise another generation to do the same thing.

                Am I angry? Hell, yes. I was born in '61, watched all the moon shots and followed the shuttle missions through my professional life as a satellite design engineer. We are now on the eve of the final flight of the Discovery without another manned system in place to take up the slack. We'll rely on the Russians to take us to the ISS from here on, if at all. Someone once put it well -

                "I always knew I'd live to see the first man on the moon, but I never dreamed I'd be around to see the last."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Danger, Will Robinson!

                  Trillions of Reasons to Be Excited



                  By DENNIS OVERBYE

                  CESSY, France — It was late on an August evening when the proton wranglers at the Large Hadron Collider finally got five trillion high-energy particles under control, squeezed and tweaked them into tight bunches and started banging them together.

                  “Seven minutes too late,” grumbled Darin Acosta, a physicist from the University of Florida, whose shift running a control room here, among sunflower fields and strip malls, had just ended. On the walls around him, computer screens were suddenly blooming with multicolored streaks and curling tracks depicting the primordial subatomic chaos of protons colliding 300 feet under his feet, in the bowels of the Compact Muon Solenoid, one of the four giant particle detectors buried around the collider ring.

                  A dozen or so physicists crowded around the screens, calling out the names of particles on the fly, trying to guess what others, as yet unknown to physics, were spraying from the mess in the middle, looking to see some sign from the universe.

                  “This is way cool,” one of them said.

                  “There’s a muon,” somebody else said as a spike darted out and into the void. “There’s a jet.”

                  “This is good,” said Maria Spiropulu, a CERN and California Institute of Technology physicist. “This is very, very good.”

                  It has been seven months and some six trillion collisions since physicists at CERN — as the European Organization for Nuclear Research is known — began running protons around their $10 billion, 18-mile electromagnetic racetrack underneath the Swiss-French border outside Geneva and smashing them together in search of new particles and forces of nature. No new particles or forces have yet emerged, at least to the statistical satisfaction of the thousands of men and women now sifting through the debris from those collisions.

                  Nor, of course, has the world disappeared into a black hole.

                  The proton collisions are scheduled to end on Wednesday. The machine will collide lead ions later in November and then shut down for the holidays. The collider will resume banging protons in February and run until the end of 2011. But CERN physicists say that data has already been accumulating faster than they can analyze it, and that the collider has already begun to surpass its rival, Fermilab’s Tevatron. “It’s a really beautiful machine. It’s performing far better than I expected,” Lyn Evans, who oversaw the building of the collider, said recently.

                  In October, at a conference in Split, Croatia, Dr. Spiropulu showed fellow physicists a picture of a collision that could have produced one of the “dark matter” particles that astronomers say make up a quarter of the universe and are among the grand prizes of science these days. It is one of handful of “interesting events” popping out of the collider that could change the world — if in fact they are real.

                  But high-energy physics is a game of statistics, and one event is just a tantalizing hint, Dr. Spiropulu said. It will take trillions more collisions before physicists can know if events like these are the harbingers of an intellectual revolution in what the universe is made of.

                  Or if there is any new physics to be discovered in the collider at all.

                  “The stakes are violently high as we break new grounds,” she said. “We must live up to the dream of 25 years with a lot of seriousness, even if we are like little kids in the candy store with all this data around.”

                  But for all the euphoria in Geneva these days, the collider is still operating under the cloud of Sept. 19, 2008. That is when the electrical connection between two of the collider’s powerful superconducting electromagnets exploded, turning one sector of the collider ring into a car wreck and shutting down the newly inaugurated machine for more than a year.

                  As a result, the machine is operating at only half power, at 3.5 trillion electron volts per proton instead of the 7 trillion electron volts for which it was designed, so as not to blow out the delicate splices. At the end of 2011, all the CERN accelerators will shut down for 15 months, so that the suspect splices — some 10,000 of them — can be strengthened and an unknown number of magnets that have mysteriously lost the ability to handle the high currents and produce the high fields needed to run the collider at close to full strength can be “retrained.”

                  CERN has been under pressure lately to trim its budget, and stopping all the accelerators instead of just the collider will save $25 million, said Rolf Heuer, CERN’s director general.

                  The collider will start up again in 2013 with proton energies of 6.5 trillion electron volts, but it is not likely to reach full power until 2014, if ever.

                  In interviews recently, scientists and managers said that they had been too eager to get the collider running at full power in 2008. “In perspective, we may say we started too ambitious,” said Lucio Rossi, a superconductivity expert who joined CERN from the University of Milan in 2001. One reason, in his opinion, was arrogance.

                  In order to steer protons racing at more than 99 percent the speed of light around the underground track, the collider’s electromagnets have to carry currents of some 12,000 amperes, which they can do only by being cooled by superfluid liquid helium to less than 2 degrees Celsius above absolute zero. At that point, their niobium-titanium wires conduct electricity without resistance. The engineers had been able to cool each of the 10,000 or so superconducting magnets and test them before putting them in the collider, but they could not test the connections between them, Dr. Rossi said.

                  Those connectors are sandwiches of superconducting wire and copper glued together with solder. The copper is there to take over carrying the enormous current if the superconductor heats up in a so-called quench and loses its superconductivity — but only for the 100 seconds or so that it takes for the magnets to dump their enormous and dangerous energy.

                  Dr. Rossi said that several reviews had established that the connector design was very good, but those reviews had missed the point that it was not robust against faulty construction, like missing solder, which apparently is what caused the 2008 disaster.

                  The current had no place to go. Sparks punctured a surrounding vessel of supercold helium, which flooded out, pushing the 30-ton magnets around like toys. Soot spread for two miles along the pipe that carries the proton beams.

                  “Superconductivity calls for total quality; one mistake will undo the whole system,” Dr. Rossi said. “It becomes a fuse.”

                  The fix, as described by Dr. Rossi, is fairly simple: an extra set of copper shunts on the outsides of the splices, providing an extra bridge across any divisions or junctions that might lack solder, as well as an improved system to spot trouble and bigger valves to release helium less explosively.

                  The result should be “supersafe for life,” said Steve Myers, who is in charge of running the collider. “And we can dispense with talking about them, because I’m fed up with talking about connectors.”

                  Indeed, undeterred by past disasters, CERN recently laid out plans for the next 20 years of running and upgrading the collider and its detectors, including an idea to swap out all its magnets in 2030 to increase the total proton energies to 33 trillion electron volts — almost as much as the ill-fated American superconducting super collider, a project canceled by Congress in 1993, would have had. The latter suggestion raised eyebrows among physicists in and out of CERN, who wondered, among other things, what it would mean for the International Linear Collider, which has long been presumed to be the next big physics machine.

                  “To speak of 33 trillion electron volts is premature,” Dr. Evans said. The long hiatus has had a dramatic effect on the hunt for the collider’s main quarry, a particle known as the Higgs boson, which theory says is responsible for imbuing other elementary particles with mass. The Higgs supposedly has a mass somewhere between 114 billion electron volts and 185 billion electron volts — in the units of mass-energy favored by physicists.

                  By the time it shuts down in 2011, the CERN collider should have amassed about 20 times as much data as it now has, enough to make a dent in the Higgs hunt. The lead in that quest currently belongs to the Tevatron, until last year the world’s largest accelerator, which has been colliding protons and antiprotons with energies of a trillion electron volts for the last two decades at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory in Batavia, Ill., piling up data. Last summer, Fermilab physicists announced that they had eliminated the region between 158 billion and 175 billion electron volts.

                  The Tevatron was scheduled to shut down in 2011, but Pier Oddone, Fermilab’s director, recently said he would seek financing to keep the Tevatron running until 2014, by which time it could gather enough data to examine the whole energy range over which the Higgs is or is not hiding. But he said he needed at least $35 million a year to avoid hurting other Fermilab projects. CERN and Fermilab both deny they are in a race to find the Higgs or for predominance in physics.

                  “Of course we feel a healthy competition with the Tevatron, let’s put it this way,” said Dr. Heuer.

                  In September Dr. Heuer and Dr. Oddone issued a joint statement deploring what they said was a news media emphasis on competition between the labs, pointing out that Europeans and Americans have worked at one another’s labs and that Fermilab played a major role in constructing the Large Hadron Collider.

                  “Both CERN and Fermilab directors are committed to supporting each other and the global particle physics community in addressing the most important fundamental questions of our era,” they said.

                  John Ellis, a CERN theorist, said the future looked bright.

                  “The vise is closing in inexorably,” he said of the Higgs. As for dark matter, he said the CERN collider would soon exceed the Tevatron in exploring for new particles: “I can hardly contain my enthusiasm.”

                  Those sentiments were echoed by Fabiola Gianotti, a CERN physicist and leader of a collaboration of some 3,000 physicists, whose Atlas detector is the prime rival to the Compact Muon Solenoid experiment. The Atlas building is across the street from the entrance to CERN, in Meyrin, Switzerland, and on a late August day the artist Josef Kristofoletti was finishing a giant mural of the Atlas detector that is visible from the surrounding countryside.

                  Showing off the Atlas control room, Dr. Gianotti said that from the moment the collisions began last spring, she noticed that they were richer, with more particles coming out. That richness is only now beginning to be plumbed.

                  “We have been waiting so long,” she said. “Only good and beautiful things are coming.”


                  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/02/sc...=1&ref=science

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Danger, Will Robinson!

                    Oh I get it. So if someone mugs me and takes only a few dollars, thats ok. Because the lady next door got murdered. The point I'm making here is not directed at NASA, or any one particular government bloated bureaucracy. Its the principle that our nation is broke. Beyond broke, we are deep in debt. So deep that we face a disaster. Yet every group, every entitlement program, every division in our government, uses as its excuse for waste and continued spending beyond our means the fact that ITS part is just a tiny part of the problem. That cutting it's budget wouldn't solve the crisis so why bother? That sounds like a child's excuse. A million is still a million. Ever bother to figure how many families had to send off their hard earned pay to Uncle Sam so some technocrat could keep his job? How about at tax time, they have a party at your front door and just burn all the money you just sent them this year. Then multiply that times a few million. This is the typical defense given for waste and abuse of tax dollars. "Gee, its just a drop in the ocean, so why not?" Two wrongs don't make a right. And just because some bankster is shafting us doesn't mean I want Tommy technocrat piling on for sloppy seconds. Well at least he'll have his Buck Rodgers robot fantasy to think about while he's at it.

                    Of course we need aerospace research. But this is a transparent attempt at justifying one's existence. Nothing more.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Danger, Will Robinson!

                      Originally posted by oddlots View Post
                      My point was to ask why target this - NASA - for one's outrage when we are surrounded by a Bosch-like landscape of predatory, fraudulent behaviour. If one had to choose between a) bailing out TBTF banks and finance scams of every possible stripe (title insurance companies are the latest) at the expense of taxpayers and b) employing some engineers at NASA, I know which seems more suspect to me. It just seems very, very odd to me that "earning" your income - i.e., private sector per se - can be reified into some touchstone of legitimacy in this environment.

                      The point of the predator drone reference was to say that some government sponsored work - and thus I assume "illegitimate" by the logic above - seems sacrosanct. My point was not to say that the program was somehow suspect but, rather, the fact that it and military spending in general somehow falls outside the "kill zone" of anti-government rage seems hypocritical.
                      Where did you get that "military spending in general somehow falls outside the "kill zone" of anti-government rage" from my statement??????? I am absoulutely for slashing the military budget. I think what we have now goes way beyond any reasonable "national defense". I'm for slashing as much as possible from any "unnecessary" spending. I don't think a half billion dollar embassy in Afghanistan is necessary, do you?http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...Iraq-Timetable Right now, with 17% unemployment, robots in space are probably not the biggest concern either.
                      Last edited by flintlock; November 11, 2010, 09:35 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Danger, Will Robinson!

                        Originally posted by don View Post
                        For a fraction of that — less than $200 million, along with about $250 million for a rocket — NASA engineers at the Johnson Space Center in Houston say they can safely send a humanoid robot to the Moon.
                        So we can send a robot to the moon for a fraction of what it costs to send Obama to India. Such a deal!

                        Like @cpnscarlet, I too am a rocket scientist. My view: allowing government to steal from me for any reason, including space exploration, is immoral. If we're going back to the moon, let it happen through commercial means -- Richard Branson and Virgin, for example, seem eager at the prospect.

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