Threat appears to be bullshit

[DToM67]

Re: Threat appears to be bullshit

in Europe, government agencies that are tasked with preventing these kinds of terrorism claim that over the past few years plenty of possible attacks on various scales have been stopped. We've seen media coverage of failed attacks only that couldn't be hushed (e.g. aircraft shoe bomber, time square bomb). Suppose that is true... then the real question is not whether the threat was real or not.

The real question is the timing of, and why the US president gives a press conference on 2 relatively small bombs that are successfully intercepted like many other threats over the years. Ones that nobody would have heard anything about other than showing up in some statistics to validate the money budget of anti-terror agencies.

Most of these 'terror' incidents don't pass the basic sniff test.

We track vehicles on land, sea, in the atmosphere & in space. We take detailed pictures of land, objects... even peoples faces - FROM SPACE! All manner of communication & movement can be scrutinized - one needn't even be interesting enough to merit such attention.

Why don't people ask themselves IF:
We've had war/s for how long?
We've had explosives for how long?
We've had commercial air-craft/lines, flight (international) for how long?
We've had wireless communication for how long?
"Terror" been a major problem for how long?

Then, why:
Only recently in history (times when such ventures would have the least probability to succeed), do we have a preponderance of (obviously behind the times) evil doers conducting successful, or almost successful operations?

BS excuse A
We're too damn BIG, disorganized & slow to adjust... we've lost track of all of our extremities & digits, like some colossal modern-day dinosaur.

BS excuse B
Its all the fault of the Internets!
Yes... prior to sending email, blogging, tweeting, text-ing, My-space/Facebook BADDIES didn't know how to get in touch with each other to discuss their dastardly plans. Nor did they realize that they themselves were mostly extremist Muslims, or that their righteous anger should be focused chiefly on the United States (and Israel).

"The Media" is captive.

[FrankL]

Re: Threat appears to be bullshit

It depends upon what is meant by "bullshit". I would have said "chickenshit".

The election angle doesn't make much sense. Security scares tend to help (1) the Executive, and (2) the Republicans. The Executive is not up for election in this mid-term contest, yet it was the Executive who released this information, and if there is any general party-wide effect, it would tend to benefit the opposition party.

The fabrication angle doesn't make much sense, either, because it isn't "scary enough" -- the risk/reward proposition doesn't look good to me. This is too botched, too targeted at a narrow demographic (which already happens to be in the Executive's camp, on average), and involves too many players who aren't deeply invested in the political fortunes of any particular American political party, to make sense as fabrication. A realistic fabrication would look like this: the (real) intel that AQ in the Arabian Peninsula was planning to attack the US by mail would be augmented by false information that the target was, say, elementary schools. There would be no physical packages for the FBI to analyze, and far fewer sources of misinformation to coordinate (and therefore far fewer points of potential failure for the conspiracy). There would only be a lot of grave announcements, and the persisting fear of another attack.

if I wore a tin-foil hat, I'd come up with a reason other than scare or justification of budget for this out-of-proportion media attention; a president trying to stop an out-of-control intelligence community/mic from letting certain attacks happen on US soil, with the aim to justify whatever their next plans are for the Middle-East.

But I don't, so we're just going to have to wait to see if anything else interesting about this pops up (e.g. Yemen claiming these planes do not exist). However, we do need to keep an open mind and ignore most of what the media tell us (and analyse the motives of all possible actors).

[Slimprofits]

Re: Threat appears to be bullshit

It does to me: http://www.sabanews.net/en/news227621.htm

SANA'A, Oct. 30 (Saba) – No UPS cargo planes left Yemen to other countries in the last days and there are no direct flights from Yemen to the United Kingdom or the United States, a Yemeni official said, after allegations that British and U.S. officials had found suspicious packages on planes that originated in Yemen.

we've got a disconnect here

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...570/story.html

SANAA, Oct 30 (Reuters) - Yemen arrested on Saturday a woman thought to be involved in sending explosive packages to the United States after surrounding a house where she was hiding in the capital Sanaa, a security official said.

"National security forces have just been able arrest the woman," the official said, adding that authorities traced the woman through a telephone number she left with a cargo company.

Yemen’s President Ali Abdullah Saleh said earlier that security forces had surrounded a house at an undisclosed location where a young woman believed to have sent the packages was taking refuge. He gave no other details about the woman.

"Yemen is determined to continue fighting terrorism and al Qaeda in cooperation with its partners. But we do not want anyone to interfere in Yemeni affairs by hunting down al Qaeda," Saleh said at a news conference, which was very short and did not offer journalists an opportunity to ask questions.

Saleh also said Yemen would be grateful for more cooperation with the U.S., British and Saudi governments on intelligence, saying there was a lack of coordination with the countries’ security agencies.

[don]

Re: Threat appears to be bullshit

Appropriate reading (or viewing, the Michael Caine movie is excellent): Graham Greene's The Quiet American

[Slimprofits]

Re: Threat appears to be bullshit

Now on US cable news networks, they are reporting an arrest was made in Yemen.

[FrankL]

Re: Threat appears to be bullshit

we've got a disconnect here

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...570/story.html

SANAA, Oct 30 (Reuters) - Yemen arrested on Saturday a woman thought to be involved in sending explosive packages to the United States after surrounding a house where she was hiding in the capital Sanaa, a security official said.

"National security forces have just been able arrest the woman," the official said, adding that authorities traced the woman through a telephone number she left with a cargo company.

Yemen’s President Ali Abdullah Saleh said earlier that security forces had surrounded a house at an undisclosed location where a young woman believed to have sent the packages was taking refuge. He gave no other details about the woman.

"Yemen is determined to continue fighting terrorism and al Qaeda in cooperation with its partners. But we do not want anyone to interfere in Yemeni affairs by hunting down al Qaeda," Saleh said at a news conference, which was very short and did not offer journalists an opportunity to ask questions.

Saleh also said Yemen would be grateful for more cooperation with the U.S., British and Saudi governments on intelligence, saying there was a lack of coordination with the countries’ security agencies.

US putting pressure on Yemeni government to allow US interest on their soil?

might also explain the 'planes do not exist' reaction of Yemen, as well as the 'we've identified and arrested the source of the bombs'

[Slimprofits]

Re: Threat appears to be bullshit

We're being told they found one (or two?) packages with explosive materials, other packages with none and they're looking for up to 15 packages from Yemen that might be shady.

What is the point of sending a package with toner and a wire sticking out? Just to use the media to scare people?

[Starving Steve]

Re: Threat appears to be bullshit

Lots of strange things going on these days. The only plausible explanation for the story linked below is that Starving Steve must be running a training camp for a cell of terrorist bears in the woods of Vancouver Island...

Tree pruner finds rocket launcher beside highway

October 30, 2010 4:16 AM

RCMP was investigating Friday after a loaded self-propelled rocket launcher with complete instructions on how to aim and fire the weapon was found by a tree pruner on the side of the Malahat Highway north of Victoria.

Steve Taylor, 33, couldn't believe his eyes Thursday when he looked down from the trees he was clearing -- about 100 metres north of McCurdy Drive in Shawnigan Lake -- to see something that looked like it was from the military. Upon closer inspection, he could clearly see the instructions.

"It said pull pin, aim through scope, and push trigger," Taylor said. Shawnigan Lake RCMP identified it as an M72 self-propelled rocket launcher...

There are more militaria collectors on Vancouver Island than I have ever seen anywhere else, so I wonder if the M72 rocket-launcher was from WWII or WWI, or some important happening in world history. Otherwise, I can not imagine why someone would collect a rocket-launcher, especially if the rocket-launcher was stolen from a military base?

If the rocket-launcher is stolen, that would be quite interesting in itself. Why would anyone collect stolen goods, and no-one can get title to stolen-goods, especially serial-numbered stolen goods from the military? Why would a rocket-launcher be a military relic to collect? The finger-prints on the rocket-launcher would be interesting and on whose land was it found? There are plenty of questions to ask.........

Coins go to coin collectors. Stamps go to stamp collectors. Jewels go to jewelers. A rocket-launcher would go to a collector of military relics, probably a war veteran.... This is an interesting story!

[Slimprofits]

Re: Threat appears to be bullshit

http://www.yemenpost.net/Detail12345...2705&MainCat=3

Mohammed al-Shaibah, Air Cargo Director for Yemenia Airways said to Yemen Post, "No UPS cargo plane left Yemeni lands over the land 48 hours. These accusations are false and baseless."

He added, "No UPS or DHL cargo packages heading to Chicago through Yemen took place in the last 48 hours as well."

"All packages are checked very carefully in Yemen, and there is no evidence to prove that this package came through Yemen."

CNN reported the suspicious package, which contained a "manipulated" toner cartridge, tested negative for explosive material, the source said, but it led to heightened inspection of arriving cargo flights in Newark, New Jersey, and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and a UPS truck in New York.

http://arabianaerospace.aero/article...ilitary-escort

US and Canadian fighter jets were scrambled to accompany an Emirates plane into New York yesterday but Emirati authorities later said it was not carrying cargo from Yemen.

US fighter jets had earlier accompanied the plane to New York after it was determined to be "an aircraft of interest" as it flew into Canadian and then American air space, the US-Canadian military agency Norad said.

But an official source at the United Arab Emirates' civil aviation body, quoted by the official Emirati WAM agency, said late yesterday that the flight had been given the all clear.

"The Emirates plane that arrived today in the United States from Dubai did not contain any packages from Yemen," the source said.

The plane landed at John F. Kennedy airport at 3.40 pm local time (19.40 GMT) and was immediately surrounded by dozens of police cars, the report said.

Norad did not earlier identify the plane in its statement, but US media said it was Emirates Airlines flight 201 from the UAE and was intercepted because it had cargo from Yemen on board.

"Out of an abundance of caution, the North American Aerospace Defense Command diverted two Canadian CF-18s to track a civilian aircraft that was determined to be an aircraft of interest as it flew into and over Canadian airspace," Norad said in a statement.

"The civilian aircraft was passed to two US F-15s as it transited into US airspace and its ultimate destination at JFK airport."

[Slimprofits]

Re: Threat appears to be bullshit

We've gone from this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101029...20101029173627

– Fri Oct 29, 1:36 pm ET

LONDON (AFP) – Police examined a suspicious package flown in from Yemen to a regional British airport on Friday, but the BBC reported the object was not a bomb although it was "potentially sinister."

The package was removed from "an American-registered cargo-plane" at East Midlands Airport which was en route to Chicago via Philadelphia, police said in a statement.

The BBC reported that the object was "definitely not a complete bomb but it was potentially sinister."

The Metropolitan Police, which took over responsibility for the operation from local police, said in a statement: "The plane stopped at East Midlands Airport as part of a routine stopover.

"Cargo removed from the plane was examined. Further tests were carried out. Following this a number of items have been sent for additional scientific examination."

Police confirmed that "explosives officers" attended the airport, but added: "At this stage there is nothing to suggest that any location was being targeted in the UK.

"The airport continued to operate as normal during the day."

to this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...640501888.html

OCTOBER 31, 2010, 1:33 A.M. ET

A device found in the U.K. on a United Parcel Service Inc. plane bound for Chicago on Friday was designed to go off on the aircraft, Prime Minister David Cameron said Saturday. U.K. Home Secretary Theresa May added that the device was powerful enough to bring down the aircraft.



May: "The device was viable and could have exploded. The target may have been an aircraft and had it detonated, the aircraft could have been brought down."

So offices (including 'explosives officers') from both the Midland police and Scotland Yard missed the explosives that could have brought down a plane or am I not understanding this?

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Threat appears to be bullshit

We've gone from this:

The rhetoric is increasing further. Now Drudge has the headline

...the bombs were set to explode over Western cities in massive mid-air 'spectaculars'

(without a useful link, however.)

[GRG55]

Re: Threat appears to be bullshit

We've gone from this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101029...20101029173627

– Fri Oct 29, 1:36 pm ET

LONDON (AFP) – Police examined a suspicious package flown in from Yemen to a regional British airport on Friday, but the BBC reported the object was not a bomb although it was "potentially sinister."

The package was removed from "an American-registered cargo-plane" at East Midlands Airport which was en route to Chicago via Philadelphia, police said in a statement.

The BBC reported that the object was "definitely not a complete bomb but it was potentially sinister."

The Metropolitan Police, which took over responsibility for the operation from local police, said in a statement: "The plane stopped at East Midlands Airport as part of a routine stopover.

"Cargo removed from the plane was examined. Further tests were carried out. Following this a number of items have been sent for additional scientific examination."

Police confirmed that "explosives officers" attended the airport, but added: "At this stage there is nothing to suggest that any location was being targeted in the UK.

"The airport continued to operate as normal during the day."

to this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...640501888.html

OCTOBER 31, 2010, 1:33 A.M. ET

A device found in the U.K. on a United Parcel Service Inc. plane bound for Chicago on Friday was designed to go off on the aircraft, Prime Minister David Cameron said Saturday. U.K. Home Secretary Theresa May added that the device was powerful enough to bring down the aircraft.



May: "The device was viable and could have exploded. The target may have been an aircraft and had it detonated, the aircraft could have been brought down."

So offices (including 'explosives officers') from both the Midland police and Scotland Yard missed the explosives that could have brought down a plane or am I not understanding this?

I don't see how you could come to that conclusion based on the other material you posted? Seems to me that Midland police did their job, and did not miss anything, nor do I see anything in the statements attributed to the police as inconsistent with that.

[Slimprofits]

Re: Threat appears to be bullshit

I don't see how you could come to that conclusion based on the other material you posted? Seems to me that Midland police did their job, and did not miss anything, nor do I see anything in the statements attributed to the police as inconsistent with that.

An incomplete bomb can take down a plane?

[Ghent12]

Re: Threat appears to be bullshit

Most of these 'terror' incidents don't pass the basic sniff test.

We track vehicles on land, sea, in the atmosphere & in space. We take detailed pictures of land, objects... even peoples faces - FROM SPACE! All manner of communication & movement can be scrutinized - one needn't even be interesting enough to merit such attention.

Why don't people ask themselves IF:
We've had war/s for how long?
We've had explosives for how long?
We've had commercial air-craft/lines, flight (international) for how long?
We've had wireless communication for how long?
"Terror" been a major problem for how long?

Then, why:
Only recently in history (times when such ventures would have the least probability to succeed), do we have a preponderance of (obviously behind the times) evil doers conducting successful, or almost successful operations?

BS excuse A
We're too damn BIG, disorganized & slow to adjust... we've lost track of all of our extremities & digits, like some colossal modern-day dinosaur.

BS excuse B
Its all the fault of the Internets!
Yes... prior to sending email, blogging, tweeting, text-ing, My-space/Facebook BADDIES didn't know how to get in touch with each other to discuss their dastardly plans. Nor did they realize that they themselves were mostly extremist Muslims, or that their righteous anger should be focused chiefly on the United States (and Israel).

"The Media" is captive.

Ah yes, the "all powerful Gubbermint" perspective combined with a "recent" twist. Actually, "terrorism" in any modern definition is not recent and has been going on for over a hundred years.

I know of nothing that will convince you that James Bond doesn't exist, but James Bond doesn't exist. The intelligence apparatus you envision is a product of Hollywood and not reality. However, the current intelligence apparatus is quite strong; maybe you should ask why so many terrorist plots or incidents go underreported relative to this recent bomb scare? Of course, perception is reality and since you have not heard of the dozens that have been stopped, they must not exist...

Please do not be rabidly insane. Eccentric is fine, however.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Threat appears to be bullshit

My gut-feeling on this bomb-scare is that it was staged by the Obama Administration because of the election. Remember how Bush Jr. staged his fake visit to New Orleans; the visit was faked in the White House basement? Nixon used to have his dirty tricks such as the Watergate Building break-in.

I don't trust politicians, and Obama is a master politician.

If only the Obama Democrats had a tangible and real plan for America, aside from raising-faith, manipulating-fear, raising-money, staging the next news-conference, and getting themselves re-elected?

The way the President conducted the news conference, the somber but up-beat tone, and the bouncing walk out of the news conference just gave me this gut-feeling, that it was all about politics. It was all scripted, as usual. (The Demos learned well from the Republicans on how to use and stage news-conferences.)

Pathetic!