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In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

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  • In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/28/wo...ef=todayspaper

    Wow......


    MADRID — Manolo Marbán, 59, is still living in his house in Toledo and going to work in the small pink-and-aqua pet grooming shop he bought here in 2006, when he got swept up in Spain’s giddy real estate boom.

    But Mr. Marbán does not own either anymore. The bank foreclosed on both properties last April, and he is waiting for the courts to issue the eviction notices. For many Americans facing foreclosure, that would be the end of it. But for Mr. Marbán and thousands of others here, it is just the beginning of their troubles. When the gavel falls on his case, he will still owe the bank more than $140,000. “I will be working for the bank for the rest of my life,” Mr. Marbán said recently, tears welling in his eyes. “I will never own anything — not even a car.”

    The real estate and banking excesses in Spain were a lot like those in the United States. Construction boomed, prices rose at an astonishing pace and banks gave out loans just as fast, often to customers like Mr. Marbán, who used the equity in his house to finance a mortgage for his shop. But those days are over. Spain now has the highest unemployment rate in the euro zone — 20 percent — and real estate prices are dropping. For many Spaniards, no longer able to pay their mortgages, the fine print in the deals they agreed to years ago is catching up with them.

    Not only are Spanish mortgage holders personally liable for the full amount of the loan, but throw in penalty interest charges and tens of thousands of dollars in court fees, and people can end up, like Mr. Marbán, facing a mountain of debt. Bankruptcy is not the answer, either. Mortgage debt is specifically excluded here.

    “Effectively, you can never get rid of this debt,” said Ada Colau, a human rights lawyer who works for Plataforma, a new advocacy group formed both to give legal advice to homeowners and to push for reform of the country’s foreclosure laws. “Other countries in the European Union also have personal debt mortgages, but you can go to the courts and get relief. Not in Spain.”

    Several opposition parties in Parliament have been pressing for amendments to the country’s foreclosure laws, including letting mortgage defaulters settle their debts with the bank by turning over the property. But the government of José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero has opposed such a major change in lending practices. Government officials say Spain’s system of personal guarantees saved its banks from the turmoil seen in the United States.

    “It is true that we are living a hangover of a huge real estate binge,” said Marcos Vaquer, who was the under secretary of the Housing Ministry until a government reshuffle last week. “And it is true that far too many Spaniards have excessive debt. But we have not seen the problems of the U.S. because the guarantees here are so much better.”

    Immigrants who moved to this country in the boom years and were the first to lose their jobs in the downturn, like Jaime Abelardo, have been the most severely affected so far. Mr. Abelardo arrived in Barcelona from Ecuador in 1999 with the promise of a job in a warehouse. A few years later, he could afford to bring his family over and buy a tiny apartment. Or so he thought. But within two years, he was laid off. He blames himself for not having been more cautious. Still, he cannot get over the figures printed on the dog-eared papers he has received from the bank.

    They say he now owes nearly 260,000 euros, almost $360,000, which includes about 77,000 euros to cover all court costs, including the bank’s, his lawyer said. He bought the apartment for less than that — about 220,000 euros, he thinks, though many aspects of the deal were never clear to him. His wife has left him. His unemployment payments are about to run out. He would like to go back to Ecuador with his four children, but he does not have enough money. “I’m thinking about shooting myself,” he said.

    An estimated 1.4 million Spaniards are facing potential foreclosure proceedings, according to Spain’s consumer protection association, known as the Adicae. Recent figures from the courts show that the numbers are rising fast. In 2007, there were just 26,000 foreclosures. Last year, there were more than 93,000. Early indications suggest that they will be higher again in 2010.

    A recent Standard & Poor’s report found that 8 percent of Spain’s housing is now worth less than the value of the mortgage, and with prices continuing to fall, experts believe, that figure could rise to 20 percent.

    Advocates say that Spain’s foreclosure procedures tilt far too much in favor of the banks, virtually guaranteeing that mortgage defaulters will end up owing large amounts after they lose their homes.

    Banks have the right to auction houses in foreclosure. If no buyers appear, as is often the case these days, the bank can take ownership of the house for 50 percent of its value, according to the estimate either at the time of purchase, or at the current time, depending on what the mortgage specifies. The banks then have 15 years to go after the homeowner.

    If the banks initiate proceedings at any point, the clock starts ticking again, experts say. In the meantime, the bank can charge interest on that debt.

    Montse Andrés Sabaté, a lawyer with Ausbanc, a consumer association that specializes in banking services, says the banks usually charge 5 or 6 percent, but sometimes much more. “We’ve seen 18 or even 19 percent,” Ms. Andrés said.

    And then there is the matter of guarantors. Bankers pressed many homeowners to find guarantors at the time they took out the mortgages or when they began to struggle to make payments. Mario Gozálvez, a truck driver, asked his 23-year-old daughter to act as a guarantor when he used the equity in his Barcelona apartment to buy a truck three years ago. At the time, she did not even have a job, and he thought of it as a silly formality. Now, she faces a lifetime of paying off his debts.

    “She may not be able to inherit anything from her mother because the bank can seize it,” Mr. Gozálvez said. “No one explains this.”

    Early in the crisis, experts say, the banks were lenient with immigrants who had no assets and accepted the property as payment for the loan. But some advocates say they are tougher now. Under the law, the banks have the right to collect a percentage of a debtor’s income if it is above $835 a month.

    Santos González Sánchez, the chairman of the Spanish Mortgage Association, says it is the bank’s duty to try to collect. “This helps to explain why our financial entities have not gone bankrupt,” he said.

    Personal liability mortgages are common in Europe. But advocates here say that aspects of Spain’s procedures — how quickly banks can foreclose, the interest rates they can charge and the repayment schedules they can demand — are particularly severe. This month, even Mr. Zapatero’s party joined in voting for a parliamentary motion to slow foreclosure proceedings.

    Mr. Marbán knew he was in trouble within months of buying the pet store as his business began to taper off. To keep the bank from foreclosing, he gave it whatever he could scrape together. At one point, he sold his car at a huge discount to meet a payment. Eventually, he sold his wife’s gold bracelet.

    But it was no good. He could never catch up on what he owed.
    “It’s funny, when I finally lost the house, I started sleeping,” he said. “I cry sometimes, but at least I sleep now.”
    Last edited by bobola; October 28, 2010, 02:26 PM. Reason: layout

  • #2
    Re: In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

    so spain goes the way of japan...

    housing bubble w/full recourse mortgage + arms -> bust + hardass legal enforcement = japan 1990 - ????



    are mortgages in china full recourse, too?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

      Can you say debt bondage fast enough?

      (psst, Canada is full recourse too)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

        Wow- we talk about "debt serfdom" here in the U.S., but in Spain they're the real damn thing!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

          Originally posted by metalman View Post
          are mortgages in china full recourse, too?

          I know in Indonesia, businessmen and probably banks hire police (govt thugs) to collect debt.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

            Originally posted by touchring View Post
            I know in Indonesia, businessmen and probably banks hire police (govt thugs) to collect debt.
            xpat on another thread says china's housing bubble will work out ok but it smells like spain's to me...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

              In Canada, if you default upon your mortgage, YOU still owe the bank. The bank will sell the home, but YOU are liable for any delinquency on the mortgage if the proceeds from the sale of the home do not cover the entire cost of what is owed to the bank. And you will be billed for the costs of the sale, plus interest and penalties.

              Why is this news? YOU are responsible for your actions as an adult in life, no-one else. This is part of growing-up to be an adult.

              I think the problem in understanding the concept of individual-responsibility arose particularly with the Feminist Movement of the 1970s. Women and minorities were taught (by lawyers) to consider themselves as victims in the world, and to solicit sympathy, automatic entitlements, and compensation through the courts. Even dead-beats had legal rights such as "squaters' rights" in the American courts, and in Canada, there could be "aboriginal rights" to consider, as well. Then on top of all of this, "spousal rights" would be considered by the courts in both Canada and the U.S.

              In British Columbia, even salmon have rights to habitat, and those rights are considered in the courts in the sale of property, even to pay a debt to a bank. ( For example, if the house does not have a building permit, properly signed-off by the jurisdiction, then salmon have rights to habitat. )

              In both Canada and the U.S, tax-liens on property have to be paid-off. I believe tax liens are even higher than first-mortgages on property in order of which debt gets satisfied first.

              And then in America, this notion that a properly-reviewed trust deed-chain allows for a clear-title to property?????????? It can be a mess! And your title-insurer stands-good for the clear-title to your house; but what does that mean if your title company goes bankrupt?????

              Whatever, the bank gets paid, and YOU are responsible for the debt YOU signed or assumed--- at least, in Canada.
              Last edited by Starving Steve; October 28, 2010, 11:12 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

                Steve, in Australia it is full recourse as well. The banks however have a nasty scam. This happened to a friend of mine. Brought a small lot house for $180,000 in 2004 with a 25% equity. Worked as a plasterboard fixer earning good money and made extra payments. Had a bad spill off the stilts (used to set ceilings) and broke both legs. When his private income protection insurance expired (six months) he was forced on to government assistance. This was insufficient to meet payments and live. He exhausted all savings and went to the Bank when he received a default notice. They foreclosed 2 months later. He had a 40% equity built up due to rising house prices. He was not worried and moved out as requested expecting the Bank to sell the property and return him his equity less disposal costs. The Bank (ANZ) held the property off the market for 2 years adding fees and charges monthly (as house prices were rising) The finally sold the house for $325,800 (December 2007) at Auction. After all costs he owed the Bank $28,000. They milked him of his equity and then some. Before it was sold he went to the bank on 5 occasions pleading with them to sell and release his equity. They told him he had No rights under the mortgage documents to demand/ force a sale and they would sell it when they "got around to it". A lifetime of hard work in equity gone and a broken and now bankrupt, hate filled Man. Every month he would get a statement of his position and every month he could see them screwing him.some the Charges included valuers fees to value the property every month, Lawn mowing and garden maintenance, rates, default interest charges(compounding) postage ,legal fees, handling fees, security monitoring fees, condition report fees, 'other fees and Charges" even a fee for monitoring loan status. $$$$$Thousands every month. They Raped him without mercy. Banks are in it for what they can get. A $140,000 original Loan cost him $354,000 when they finally sold it. F@#K em I hope they rot in Hell for what they did to just that one decent Man.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

                  Indeed, it is true that a debt can stay with you for all your life here in Spain. But then again, nobody here takes out a mortgage with the presumption that they could walk away from it if they wanted to. It is one one reasons why the family structure is so important, and that they will go to extraordinary lenght before allowing a brother, uncle, or child to be evicted. Also one should note that the whole eviction process is very slow, with some opportunities for the individual to work out a plan. Spanish banks have been pretty open to working out payment plans to keep people in their properties. If anything, most of the foreclosures I run into are in the case of speculative corporate ownership, where the buyer folded the company. Or alternatively, cases where an owner, often foreign, loads up tons of debt on a given property, and walks away. Generally to leave Spain for gentler economic conditions

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

                    Originally posted by thunderdownunder View Post
                    F@#K em I hope they rot in Hell for what they did to just that one decent Man.
                    Being as I'm an atheist, I don't believe in Heaven or Hell.

                    ... but I'd be willing to make an exception in this case.
                    Most folks are good; a few aren't.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

                      Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
                      ...In British Columbia, even salmon have rights to habitat, and those rights are considered in the courts in the sale of property, even to pay a debt to a bank. ( For example, if the house does not have a building permit, properly signed-off by the jurisdiction, then salmon have rights to habitat. )...

                      ...
                      Do those rights extend to the immigrant Atlantic salmon living in refugee camps...er, fish farms...on the Wet Coast?

                      Just wonderin'

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

                        Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
                        In Canada, if you default upon your mortgage, YOU still owe the bank. The bank will sell the home, but YOU are liable for any delinquency on the mortgage if the proceeds from the sale of the home do not cover the entire cost of what is owed to the bank. And you will be billed for the costs of the sale, plus interest and penalties.
                        No I disagree SS.

                        A loan is BOTH the responsibility of the borrower and the lender.



                        BTW, how on earth do you go from mortgage debt to the "Feminist Movement of the 1970s" is beyond me.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

                          Originally posted by touchring View Post
                          I know in Indonesia, businessmen and probably banks hire police (govt thugs) to collect debt.
                          I wonder if China is recourse.....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

                            Paying one's debts in full without exception, even if it becomes indentured servitude, might have bad results for the economy. It deters people from taking a business or financial risk and therefore slows economic activity. Further, gifted entrepreneurs with much to offer are among the most likely to go bankrupt on their first try. One notable example is the 1901 bankruptcy of the Detroit Automobile Company and its owner, Mr. Henry Ford. His second chance worked out better.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: In Spain, Homes Are Taken but Debt Stays

                              New Zealand also has full-recourse mortgages. There is no "jingle-mail" here. The implications are explained to each borrower in detail by an attorney before the loan is signed.

                              The difference vs. Spain is that I believe the loan is forgiven if you declare bankruptcy.

                              This seems like the way it should be. Otherwise, with a no-recourse loan, you're really buying a call option, and putting the risk of a market decline on the bank and the public, rather than accepting it yourself.

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