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A house in Mumbai? Do you make 40 lakh a year?

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  • A house in Mumbai? Do you make 40 lakh a year?

    If your annual income is not Rs 40 lakh (~ $88k !) or more, buying a new in Mumbai could remain a dream for you.

    A recent study by property research firm Liases Foras covering 482 new housing projects across the city has revealed that the weighted average cost of a new house (not a resale) in is close to Rs 2 crore.

    The weighted average cost is the sum of the sticker prices of all new houses available in the market, under construction or ready for possession, divided by the total number of such houses.

    To buy a Rs 2-crore house, you got to be making Rs 40 lakh a year because as per widely accepted principles of affordability, no bank will offer you a housing loan that is more than five times your annual income. And that is not all, banks cover only 80% per cent of the cost of the house. Which means, in this case the buyer will have to raise Rs 40 lakh on his own.

    Pankaj Kapoor, managing director, Liases Foras, said the survey proves that Mumbai is a waiting to go pop. “Such surveys indicate whether the growth in the real estate sector is realistic. This survey shows it is not,” he added.

    Several other real estate experts agree that at Rs 2 crore, the weighted average is way too high for a city like Mumbai. “Even if you push very hard and exclude people living in the slums, majority of the people in this city don’t earn more than Rs 5 to 10 lakh per annum,” said Pranay Vakil, chairman, Knight Frank.

    “Which means for a vast majority it’s next to impossible to buy a new house. Now if that is the case, where is the demand to warrant such high valuations coming from,” he asked.

    Vakil said where lending is concerned , the EMIs are not expected to exceed 50 per cent of a buyer’s monthly take home. “Even with Rs 10 lakh as your annual income, you will not be able to buy a house costing more than Rs 50 lakh.”

    And even for those who make Rs 40 lakh a year, it’s not an easy ride. The weighted average cost for a new house downtown, where somebody making that kind of money would aspire to be, is an astonishing Rs 6.85 crore. In western suburbs, it is Rs 1.44 crore.

    What is scary is that the the weighted average has gone up by 50 per cent just between June 2009 and June 2010. This has reflected in home sales dropping to half in the same period, though developers continue to claim brisk business.

    Most of the buying is being done by investors and not end-users. This shows that there is a lot of black money finding its way into the market,” said Kapoor.
    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/6669355.cms

    Property prices continue to go up even in high inflation environment. Of course the dynamics are much different than the US -- cash (& Gold) rich population, ability of the builders to hold properties for extended period of times when they cannot sell at a price they demand. But something gotta give.

    I think Indian real estate market depends a lot on the Indian stock market, which has more than doubled since Mar 09.

    As the article says, lot of buying done by investors -- cheap USD flowing in to India ?

    I wonder what will/could trigger a downturn apart from the stock market -- any thoughts ?
    Last edited by photoncounter; October 02, 2010, 08:49 PM.

  • #2
    Re: A house in Mumbai? Do you make 40 lakh a year?

    India is desperately short of electricity. The rate of adding new capacity is significantly less than the growing demand. Brownouts and blackouts are a daily occurrence in many areas. Each incident is a significant loss for business as all systems have to be re-started. Almost all new industrial & institutional construction has to build electrical capacity if they are to get permission to build. The debt for a number of Indian energy companies was becoming critical a few years ago.

    On the real estate front, it is common for Indian gangs (ie. Indian Mafia) to come into a valuable real estate area (eg. near airport in Bangalor) and take over significant parts of the land & homes. Real estate registry offices have disappeared records. Officials are bribed or threatened. Property is suddenly sold to "friends" of the gangs for back taxes right after the owners pay their taxes in full. Officials avoid investigating complaints from those who used to be the rightful owners.

    Where will all this end? Not well, I assume.

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    • #3
      Re: A house in Mumbai? Do you make 40 lakh a year?

      You know in these countries where financing is not the norm and people have cash on hand i have hard time understanding their economies.. Its not usually debt fueled like the west and doesnt usually collapse as quickly..

      In egypt for instance for the life of me i cant figure out RE prices... They just keep going up! Who the hell can afford these places! An apartment in Cairo costs ~ the same as a house in LA.... But, i dont really see anyone getting loans, it seems to me to be all cash.

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      • #4
        Re: A house in Mumbai? Do you make 40 lakh a year?

        Originally posted by karim0028
        You know in these countries where financing is not the norm and people have cash on hand i have hard time understanding their economies.. Its not usually debt fueled like the west and doesnt usually collapse as quickly..

        In egypt for instance for the life of me i cant figure out RE prices... They just keep going up! Who the hell can afford these places! An apartment in Cairo costs ~ the same as a house in LA.... But, i dont really see anyone getting loans, it seems to me to be all cash.
        The availability of debt is not the only factor.

        Real estate property taxes are the other.

        If you are in an area with limited housing resources - cities being notably the most common - the price of properties is a function of carrying cost vs. median incomes.

        With or without mortgages, the cost will rise such that it equilibriates with incomes restricting housing purchases to the minority demographic with sufficient wealth.

        This is the flip side to the rentier's scam: if you are the only one or one of a few with sufficient cash to buy housing, then over time you aggregate your renter's income with your own. At some point you achieve synergy such that your renters can never buy a home but you can continue to take their aggregated incomes (paid through you) to expand your holdings.

        The entire point of Dr. Michael Hudson's work is that a property tax which is calculated to remove the unearned portion of economic free rent - thus reducing property prices - also can break or at least slow down this slum lord dynamic.

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        • #5
          Re: A house in Mumbai? Do you make 40 lakh a year?

          Black money is what drives Indian real estate. Not debt. Black money is money on which no tax has been paid or the source is bribery. India leads the world in both.
          Last edited by hayekvindicated; October 03, 2010, 11:17 AM.

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          • #6
            Re: A house in Mumbai? Do you make 40 lakh a year?

            Originally posted by hayekvindicated View Post
            Black money is what drives Indian real estate. Not debt. Black money is money on which no tax has been paid or the source is bribery. India leads the world in both.
            I got a feeling thats the same thing in egypt.. Families hold onto land holdings for ever... But, they are instituting a property tax system now...

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            • #7
              Re: A house in Mumbai? Do you make 40 lakh a year?

              One other factor that drives this is that these economies [India, Egypt, etc.] have historically had very high state involvement in the economies [not that long ago in India, even the damn matches were made by state government owned companies...and lousy matches they were I can attest from personal experience]. That leaves private money with far fewer investment outlets. From my travels and observations the private money in urban areas tends to concentrate in real estate and retailing in these sorts of economies...until they begin to open up.

              This is why families accumulate land holdings over time and don't sell. Where else are they going to put the money, especially if it's difficult to remove large sums from the country and send it abroad [which was the case in India, and perhaps Egypt also?]

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              • #8
                Re: A house in Mumbai? Do you make 40 lakh a year?

                Originally posted by Glenn Black View Post
                On the real estate front, it is common for Indian gangs (ie. Indian Mafia) to come into a valuable real estate area (eg. near airport in Bangalor) and take over significant parts of the land & homes. Real estate registry offices have disappeared records. Officials are bribed or threatened. Property is suddenly sold to "friends" of the gangs for back taxes right after the owners pay their taxes in full. Officials avoid investigating complaints from those who used to be the rightful owners.
                Correct. Plus the nexus between politicians and real estate developers is strong. That's why I am not sure how will the property prices ever go down in big cities. They may go side ways when the times are tough, but a significant drop - I am not sure.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A house in Mumbai? Do you make 40 lakh a year?

                  Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                  One other factor that drives this is that these economies [India, Egypt, etc.] have historically had very high state involvement in the economies [not that long ago in India, even the damn matches were made by state government owned companies...and lousy matches they were I can attest from personal experience]. That leaves private money with far fewer investment outlets. From my travels and observations the private money in urban areas tends to concentrate in real estate and retailing in these sorts of economies...until they begin to open up.

                  This is why families accumulate land holdings over time and don't sell. Where else are they going to put the money, especially if it's difficult to remove large sums from the country and send it abroad [which was the case in India, and perhaps Egypt also?]

                  This is the reason why Washington's printing press doesn't seem to generate much demand. A huge bulk of the cash has gone into real estate. The multiplier is even less than one.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A house in Mumbai? Do you make 40 lakh a year?

                    Originally posted by karim0028 View Post
                    I got a feeling thats the same thing in egypt.. Families hold onto land holdings for ever... But, they are instituting a property tax system now...
                    Yeah the "normal" measurements of price to income ratios etc get thrown out of whack when you have a percentage of the population with unlimited amounts of slush money and have a high capacity for absorbing losses (either in the nominal price or through inability to rent out the property). That's why the prices don't come down much usually.

                    A friend just moved back to Mumbai from Singapore. He found rents in Mumbai lower than Singapore but higher than London.

                    Originally posted by vdhulla View Post
                    Correct. Plus the nexus between politicians and real estate developers is strong. That's why I am not sure how will the property prices ever go down in big cities. They may go side ways when the times are tough, but a significant drop - I am not sure.
                    The market has dropped in the past and quite badly. In 1992 Mumbai suffered a horrible real estate crash. Those who bought at the top of that market never made any money (adjusting for inflation). But in nominal terms, since inflation in India runs at more like 15 percent year on year, the property market rarely stays depressed over long periods of time in nominal terms. If the market is going sideways, you are in reality losing about 10-15 percent in real terms because that's the inflation rate.

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