Clarified: What does "genetically modified" salmon mean?

[blazespinnaker]

http://eatocracy.cnn.com/2010/09/20/...salmon/?hpt=C2

Genetic engineering is a huge source of deflation in food prices.

These salmons can grow in the winter and in half the time it takes a non modified salmon to grow.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Clarified: What does "genetically modified" salmon mean?

Sigh....don't be ignorant more than likely you have eaten and currently eat GM HT and GM IR crops.

Let us not engage in uncalled for personal attacks. What mliu_01 stated about the rats dying after eating GMO corn is I presume true.

The rough facts are clear enough I believe. GMO foods have some dangers, in some cases serious dangers, as has been mentioned above in this thread. At the same time, it is likely that most of us have by now consumed some herbicide tolerant (HT) and insect resistant (IR) genetically modified (GM) foods.

P.S. -- The above post was not made in February of 2003. It was made in September of 2010, in response to Guinnesstime's post of 21 September 2010, 09:51 PM, on this thread. Apparently a vBulletin software bug mismarked the timestamp on this present post.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Clarified: What does "genetically modified" salmon mean?

Sigh....don't be ignorant more than likely you have eaten and currently eat GM HT and GM IR crops.

Let us not engage in uncalled for personal attacks. What mliu_01 stated about the rats dying after eating GMO corn is I presume true.

The rough facts are clear enough I believe. GMO foods have some dangers, in some cases serious dangers, as has been mentioned above in this thread. At the same time, it is likely that most of us have by now consumed some herbicide tolerant (HT) and insect resistant (IR) genetically modified (GM) foods.

P.S. -- This post is a duplicate of the preceding one. The duplication was not human error on my part. Rather the duplication was a software bug in the iTulip vBulletin software, as best as I can tell. This post and this P.S. were both entered on 21 September 2010, not 23 February 2003.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Clarified: What does "genetically modified" salmon mean?

I can not understand why anyone would oppose genetic engineering. Mankind has been genetically engineering crops (such as corn) for a thousand years or more.

The same bunch of eco-frauds that have opposed and tried to kill atomic power plants (i.e, the Union of Concerned Scientists in Toronto) are also trying to kill genetic engineering. And they don't offer any scientific evidence to make their case against genetic engineering except to say that they are "scientists", and those who oppose them are not. They are "concerned" while others who oppose them are not "concerned scientists".

Maybe a minor from the University of Minnesota in public health doesn't make me "scientist" enough for the Union of Concerned Scientists? Who knows?

Or maybe the Union of Concerned Scientists would rather halt the genetic-engineering of food such as salmon--- and let people starve?

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Clarified: What does "genetically modified" salmon mean?

I can not understand why anyone would oppose genetic engineering. Mankind has been genetically engineering crops (such as corn) for a thousand years or more.

The same bunch of eco-frauds that have opposed and tried to kill atomic power plants (i.e, the Union of Concerned Scientists in Toronto) are also trying to kill genetic engineering. And they don't offer any scientific evidence to make their case against genetic engineering except to say that they are "scientists", and those who oppose them are not. They are "concerned" while others who oppose them are not "concerned scientists".

Maybe a minor from the University of Minnesota in public health doesn't make me "scientist" enough for the Union of Concerned Scientists? Who knows?

Or maybe the Union of Concerned Scientists would rather halt the genetic-engineering of food such as salmon--- and let people starve?

yeah, i don't get it either.

[GRG55]

Re: Clarified: What does "genetically modified" salmon mean?

http://eatocracy.cnn.com/2010/09/20/...salmon/?hpt=C2

Genetic engineering is a huge source of deflation in food prices.

These salmons can grow in the winter and in half the time it takes a non modified salmon to grow.

How else are we going to feed 6 Billion, 7 Billion, 8 Billion people?

Regardless, I haven't seen much evidence of "deflation" in the price of salmon where I live...

[Chris]

Re: Clarified: What does "genetically modified" salmon mean?

the problem is not with the genetic engineering but with the farming. Farmed salmon usually have a higher fat content than wild that have to content with strong currents and predators. And who wants to eat a fatty salmon?

[bungee]

Re: Clarified: What does "genetically modified" salmon mean?

Mankind has been genetically engineering crops (such as corn) for a thousand years or more.

If you really believe that then you don't understand what genetically engineering really means. I'm sure you can't find an example from 50 years ago never mind 1000 years ago where genes from a bacterium, fish, virus etc have been taken from the host and put into plants or species where they never naturally occurred.

Have a read of the Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_food_controversy


It mightn’t be so bad if scientists actually knew what they were doing but this is science done totally in the dark. Think of it as a surgeon doing brain surgery on you using Stone Age tools as opposed to a nice sharp scalpel and drill. Yes one in 10000 or 100000 times you might survive but who knows what else would be damaged along the way. It’s the same with genetically modified seeds. 10000’s of seeds are modified using blunt tools and the few that survive and show the desired traits are commercialised.

You talk about feeding the world but some genetically modified seeds now have genes in them that mean that the seeds of the plant can't germinate - so called Frankenstein Seeds. When these genes spread into other crops then the results could be devastating to food supply. Additionally the world is moving to fewer and fewer strains of crops ultimately to one of each type - a monoculture. This leaves the food supply open disease and failure on a global scale.

[we_are_toast]

Re: Clarified: What does "genetically modified" salmon mean?

With this genetic modification;

What bacterial and viral diseases will these new fish be susceptible to?
Will these diseases be capable of Trans Species polymorphism?

What will happen when a disease races through these monocultured food sources?

And worst of all, what happens when this fish gets out into the environment, and it eventually will!
What happens when it crosses with a natural salmon? Will it's predation patterns change? It's migratory patterns?
Will it become a home for parasites that can jump across species?

Way too many unanswered questions, and far too much potential for some VERY bad things to happen to let this experiment go forward.

Problem: We've got too many people on the planet to feed.
Solution: Conduct a mad scientist experiment and roll the dice.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Clarified: What does "genetically modified" salmon mean?

I worked for a major paint manufacturer and one afternoon in a paint lab I spotted a fan deck of color chips.
It was all shades of pink, red and orange.
The lab tech explained it was dyes for salmon feed for salmon farms.
The meat would be unappealing dead grey unless artificially dyed to match the wild fish.
Back around 2001 it was a big enough business providing those salmon dyes that Fortune 50 companies fought for the market.
Bon Appetit.

[ggirod]

Re: Clarified: What does "genetically modified" salmon mean?

If you really believe that then you don't understand what genetically engineering really means.

Further, the selective breeding that has been done over thousands of years was an open process wherein people shared the information they used to breed plants and animals. While much of the work was done before Darwin, evolution's toolbox was borrowed from nature to speed up the process and make plants and critters we found useful. Even with nature's limited toolset we managed to make some real messes with hybrids, etc, but mostly what evolution allows has already happened in limited ways many times on the planet without permanently bad results. The original genetic basis for corn was almost lost due to widespread contamination from various hybrids of corn, but was captured a couple of decades ago somewhere in MX. It is now preserved and maintained so when our breeding screws up badly enough we can at least start over.

Genetic modification is a proprietary process, conducted in secret and hidden from view even when the government is finally invited with considerable pressure from lobbyists and politicians, to approve the stuff. Extracting genes from one organism to insert in another just does not happen in nature. And, worse, creating genes to provide pesticide resistance and other similar mass farming traits, definitely never happened. Already, genes from GM crops are appearing in the wild.

More than 83 percent of the wild canola tested by researchers traveling through North Dakota tested positive for GM genes. But this is what's really terrifying: some of the plants tested positive for resistance to both glyphosphate (Roundup) and glusfosinate (Liberty). Commercial GM canola is resistant to either Roundup or Liberty, not both. The dual resistance evolved in the wild, after the plants had escaped. The wild canola is doing what living things do--mutating and selecting for traits that will best ensure its survival. And all without our help.

Evolution combined with GM techniques is a real recipe for monsters in copious quantities. It would be nice if we understood in adequate depth how nature works today before we start, like the Sorcerer's Apprentice, mucking about with that which we do not understand.

Frankly, I don't want to think about a world contaminated with invasive former weeds and crops bearing new powerful engineered genes and then hear that, like pollution, chemical sensitivities, human gender abnormalities, and cancer, that they are just EXTERNALITIES we have to accept in the name of PROGRESS.

It is sad that people seem to care about the current and future starving people only when it is profitable. Somehow, neglected starving hoards are handy to keep around so Agri-Behemoths can use them to justify their latest foray into world destruction in the name of increased output on industrial farms.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Clarified: What does "genetically modified" salmon mean?

How else are we going to feed 6 Billion, 7 Billion, 8 Billion people?

Regardless, I haven't seen much evidence of "deflation" in the price of salmon where I live...

Over 50% of consumed seafood is aquafarmed.

[flintlock]

Re: Clarified: What does "genetically modified" salmon mean?

With this genetic modification;

What bacterial and viral diseases will these new fish be susceptible to?
Will these diseases be capable of Trans Species polymorphism?

What will happen when a disease races through these monocultured food sources?

And worst of all, what happens when this fish gets out into the environment, and it eventually will!
What happens when it crosses with a natural salmon? Will it's predation patterns change? It's migratory patterns?
Will it become a home for parasites that can jump across species?

Way too many unanswered questions, and far too much potential for some VERY bad things to happen to let this experiment go forward.

Problem: We've got too many people on the planet to feed.
Solution: Conduct a mad scientist experiment and roll the dice.

What he said.

Beware of opening Pandora's box. Scientists today are smart, but never as smart as they think they are.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Clarified: What does "genetically modified" salmon mean?

These animals are being genetically engineered constantly by background radiation. Do you have any idea how many mutations are in the genes of the foods you eat?

Anyways..

http://www.canada.com/technology/Gen...723/story.html

Looks like the enviropigs are about to be available as well. Go Canada! Don't have to legally label this stuff either, as the FDA doesn't care about how stuff is produced as long as it doesn't result in material differences.

This is pretty huge.

[don]

Re: Clarified: What does "genetically modified" salmon mean?

Not discounting any of the above, isn't the engine driving modified foods ownership of the world's food supply?