The Gateway Drug to Debt Slavery

[flintlock]

Re: The Gateway Drug to Debt Slavery

Poor babies. Attend college for 4 years (which takes a smart person about 25 hours a week to do when others are working 50 hours a week), never work, just live on loans. Then bankrupt if you don't make enough to pay them.

Govn't participation in this is a mess. But that doesn't mean the debtors are some kind of victims. Allowing them to discharge these debts would just mean that A) nobody gets student loans, even the responsible people, (or at least rates would skyrocket), and B) they would borrow even more lavishly if they could, and C) the govn't, ultimately backing these bad debts, would just print more money or tax us more to pay for it. D) the price of college would rise even higher as more money is pushed into it.

I went to college and borrowed $0. Poor babies. They might have to actually work for 5 years and save for an education, work while in school, or dare I say pick a career they're more suited for. Because if you can't figure out that borrowing $80,000 for college to get a degree where you don't make a lot means you can't pay it back, you need to consider another line of work.

Meanwhile welders, machinists, mechanics, etc are in high demand. Baby boomers raised a generation of darlings that would die before they get their hands dirty. Nations like this either sit on oceans of oil or they decline and fall.

Is that you Professor Turgesson?



Love it, keep em coming!

[jpatter666]

Re: The Gateway Drug to Debt Slavery

My neighbor, who has a good job, was pursuing an MBA through one of those schools. He was told an MBA was his key to advancement. Only midway through he found out one of those rinky dink degrees would be considered worthless as far as his company was concerned. He quit immediately, a bit poorer for the experience. You'd think he would have done a bit more homework first.

Good point Rajiv on the "Man bites dog" syndrome. Our law books are full of those type of laws, where a tiny minority commit infractions, and the rest of us have our freedoms taken away in the name of "fixing" things.

Santa Fe nailed it with the fact that Corporations decide which laws get passed for the most part.

I think something that needs to be considered is that many people simply aren't aware of all these tricks and traps. I think (hopeful or not!) that the average intelligence and knowledge base of most posters here is well above the norm. My sister-in-law has two kids that are just now college-age. Having had a very hard-life/luck existence herself, she was desperate to insure her kids would have a better life than she did and to her that meant a college education -- best that she and the kids could get loans for.

So she was on the verge of doing some truly ridiculous student loans when my wife and I got wind of it. We immediately stepped in and did the background research (*we* knew to do that -- she didn't, and you can be sure no one in those loans offices ever mentioned it or brought it up).

Needless to say, she didn't get the loans (one ticked off student loan officer there!) and we are reassessing with a reality viewpoint. They drown you in slides, happy future presentations and a flat out mountain of paperwork (the important stuff in the small print which the officer said I didn't need to bother with!).

I understand and actually agree with the "be an adult" about getting loans, but when critical points are buried in the paperwork, something is rotten.

[DToM67]

Re: The Gateway Drug to Debt Slavery

One of the best threads I've read in a while. Thanks to the o/p, and for all for the thoughtful comments.

[don]

Re: The Gateway Drug to Debt Slavery

I think something that needs to be considered is that many people simply aren't aware of all these tricks and traps. I think (hopeful or not!) that the average intelligence and knowledge base of most posters here is well above the norm. My sister-in-law has two kids that are just now college-age. Having had a very hard-life/luck existence herself, she was desperate to insure her kids would have a better life than she did and to her that meant a college education -- best that she and the kids could get loans for.

So she was on the verge of doing some truly ridiculous student loans when my wife and I got wind of it. We immediately stepped in and did the background research (*we* knew to do that -- she didn't, and you can be sure no one in those loans offices ever mentioned it or brought it up).

Needless to say, she didn't get the loans (one ticked off student loan officer there!) and we are reassessing with a reality viewpoint. They drown you in slides, happy future presentations and a flat out mountain of paperwork (the important stuff in the small print which the officer said I didn't need to bother with!).

I understand and actually agree with the "be an adult" about getting loans, but when critical points are buried in the paperwork, something is rotten.

My oldest daughter was being sucked into home ownership at the height of the bubble. She asked me to review her loan proposal docs. I, as simply as possible, laid out the provisions of this loan from hell (straining out the didactic rhetoric) and let her decide. She opted out. Her "friendly" realtor was incensed. This daughter is all heart- kitchen stove sized- but short on analytical insights. She would have done anything to keep her home. Glad that vampiric CDO shadow passed her by.

[LargoWinch]

Re: The Gateway Drug to Debt Slavery

My oldest daughter was being sucked into home ownership at the height of the bubble. She asked me to review her loan proposal docs. I, as simply as possible, laid out the provisions of this loan from hell (straining out the didactic rhetoric) and let her decide. She opted out. Her "friendly" realtor was incensed. This daughter is all heart- kitchen stove sized- but short on analytical insights. She would have done anything to keep her home. Glad that vampiric CDO shadow passed her by.

don, imagine the loan she was contemplating was full recourse (wage garnishing for life, social security seizure etc.). In order words: debt slavery circa 2010.

What would you have done?


(BTW: welcome to the Canadian system put in place by your friendly banskter lobbyist)

[don]

Re: The Gateway Drug to Debt Slavery

don, imagine the loan she was contemplating was full recourse (wage garnishing for life, social security seizure etc.). In order words: debt slavery circa 2010.

What would you have done?


(BTW: welcome to the Canadian system put in place by your friendly banskter lobbyist)

More. I would not permit that to happen.

[Rajiv]

Re: The Gateway Drug to Debt Slavery

More. I would not permit that to happen.

But we in the US, as a society, have permitted it to happen -- to the society at large. We did not go write en masse to our representatives, in 2005 when the "Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act" was being debated. Again, the thought process on part of most people was -- "Anybody who files Bankruptcy is a Thief." As long as this attitude persists, we will continue to to be in the clutches of FIRE. This I believe is one of Hudson's main point.