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States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

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  • States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

    As ridiculous as it gets.
    But apparently if you order the bagel to go the tax doesn't apply onlyif you have it prepared to eat there

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Any way you slice your bagel, if you slice it in New York, it's going to cost you more.
    New York State tax officials are enforcing a sales tax for sliced or prepared bagels (with cream cheese or other toppings), along with whole bagels eaten in the store, according to the state Department of Taxation and Finance.


    Whole bagels sold for takeout are not subject to sales tax, but "any handling or preparation at the shop turns it into a taxable event," says Brad Maione, a spokesperson for the DTF.
    Although Maione says the sales tax is not a new provision and that the stepped up enforcement is due to better technology, bagel-store owners say the tax was news to them.
    Kenneth Green, the owner of 33 Bruegger's Bagel franchises throughout New York, says he never charged patrons the bagel tax and says he found out he owed back taxes this summer when the state audited his company.


    "We think it's unfair. They audited us four times in the past 20 years and never raised this before. We are a law abiding company and tax payers. They are requiring us to pay three years worth of taxes we never collected," said Greene.


    The tax on a sliced bagel is roughly 8 cents. Greene estimated that because of the audit he'll have to pay thousands in back taxes.


    And Greene isn't alone. In 2009 2,732 restaurants were audited state-wide. That year, 646 restaurants were audited for bagel malfeasance in New York City alone. In 2010 that number jumped to 1,077.
    God bless america...

    http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/25/smal..._tax/index.htm

  • #2
    Re: States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

    So the guy gets caught not paying taxes? My heart bleeds cream cheese.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

      Originally posted by aaron View Post
      So the guy gets caught not paying taxes? My heart bleeds cream cheese.
      how can you get that from that story???

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

        Change the story to read:

        "Business man caught avoiding taxes"

        While teachers are being fired across the state because of budget cuts, Kenneth Green owner of 30 bagel stores thinks it's "unfair" that he should pay sales taxes on his bagels.

        iTulip poster "aaron" from Seattle, cannot understand how such a successful bagel seller would not know the basics in bagel tax law.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

          Originally posted by aaron View Post
          Change the story to read:

          "Business man caught avoiding taxes"

          While teachers are being fired across the state because of budget cuts, Kenneth Green owner of 30 bagel stores thinks it's "unfair" that he should pay sales taxes on his bagels.

          iTulip poster "aaron" from Seattle, cannot understand how such a successful bagel seller would not know the basics in bagel tax law.
          wow, resentful much?

          First, the point is the tax is ridiculous.

          Second, if you keep on reading the story is that many businesses weren't even aware of the tax because the government didn't seem to collect them, now that they need the money this ridiculous tax is being applied. Off course the businesses weren't charging the tax in the first place so how are they going to pay back taxes on it. But regardless, the tax in itself is ridiculous.

          Teachers are being fired because the state has no money, sorry for the reality check, but millions of americans have been fired throughout all the sectors of the economy. That tends to happen during an economic recession.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

            Aaron,
            Is it possible that Politicians agreed to Pay salary and benefits packages that were not sustainable.

            In the Most Towns in America the Biggest Business in Town is the School District. If you hear a Gigantic Sucking Sound - its the Local Board of Education and State/Local/ and County Governments sucking up all the available cash out of your Community. Why can't that local coffee shop or restaurant stay in business???? Is it possible that Real Estate Taxes are high to pay for Teacher salaries and the local Residents have less extra Cash because their Property Taxes went up. Most towns in America have seen $200-$400 increase in Taxes per Home.

            If there are 500 homes in your Town - a $200 increase in Property Taxes is $100,000 less Cash in the hands of Residents of the local Community. Think of the Impact when the Town is bigger.

            A functioning society needs quality educational service, Police services, and Fire services to function - but, at some point you are paying too much in for Salaries, Health -care and defined Pension Plans.

            Aaron - I assume we aren't at this tipping point.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

              Oy vey!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

                A guy who owns 30 bagel stores ought to know to pay his sales tax. When he does not and the state gets around to collecting it, we are supposed to cry him a river?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

                  Originally posted by BK View Post
                  Aaron,
                  Is it possible that Politicians agreed to Pay salary and benefits packages that were not sustainable.

                  In the Most Towns in America the Biggest Business in Town is the School District. If you hear a Gigantic Sucking Sound - its the Local Board of Education and State/Local/ and County Governments sucking up all the available cash out of your Community. Why can't that local coffee shop or restaurant stay in business???? Is it possible that Real Estate Taxes are high to pay for Teacher salaries and the local Residents have less extra Cash because their Property Taxes went up. Most towns in America have seen $200-$400 increase in Taxes per Home.

                  If there are 500 homes in your Town - a $200 increase in Property Taxes is $100,000 less Cash in the hands of Residents of the local Community. Think of the Impact when the Town is bigger.

                  A functioning society needs quality educational service, Police services, and Fire services to function - but, at some point you are paying too much in for Salaries, Health -care and defined Pension Plans.

                  Aaron - I assume we aren't at this tipping point.
                  on that note:

                  In April 2008, The Orange County Register published a bombshell of an investigation about a license plate program for California government workers and their families. Drivers of nearly 1 million cars and light trucks—out of a total 22 million vehicles registered statewide—were protected by a “shield” in the state records system between their license plate numbers and their home addresses. There were, the newspaper found, great practical benefits to this secrecy.
                  “Vehicles with protected license plates can run through dozens of intersections controlled by red light cameras with impunity,” the Register’s Jennifer Muir reported. “Parking citations issued to vehicles with protected plates are often dismissed because the process necessary to pierce the shield is too cumbersome. Some patrol officers let drivers with protected plates off with a warning because the plates signal that drivers are ‘one of their own’ or related to someone who is.”
                  The plate program started in 1978 with the seemingly unobjectionable purpose of protecting the personal addresses of officials who deal directly with criminals. Police argued that the bad guys could call the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV), get addresses for officers, and use the information to harm them or their family members. There was no rash of such incidents, only the possibility that they could take place.
                  So police and their families were granted confidentiality. Then the program expanded from one set of government workers to another. Eventually parole officers, retired parking enforcers, DMV desk clerks, county supervisors, social workers, and other categories of employees from 1,800 state agencies were given the special protections too. Meanwhile, the original intent of the shield had become obsolete: The DMV long ago abandoned the practice of giving out personal information about any driver. What was left was not a protection but a perk.
                  Yes, rank has its privileges, and it’s clear that government workers have a rank above the rest of us. Ordinarily, if one out of every 22 California drivers had a license to drive any way he chose, there would be demands for more police power to protect Californians from the potential carnage. But until the newspaper series, law enforcement officials and legislators had remained mum. The reason, of course, is that the scofflaws are law enforcement officials and legislators.
                  Here is how brazen they’ve become: A few days after the newspaper investigation caused a buzz in Sacramento, lawmakers voted to expand the driver record protections to even more government employees. An Assembly committee, on a bipartisan 13-to-0 vote, agreed to extend the program to veterinarians, firefighters, and code officers. “I don’t want to say no to the firefighters and veterinarians that are doing these things that need to be protected,” Assemblyman Mike Duvall (R-Yorba Linda) explained.
                  Exempting themselves from traffic laws in the name of a threat that no longer exists is bad enough, but what government workers do to the rest of us on a daily basis makes ticket dodging look like child’s play. Often under veils of illegal secrecy, public-sector unions and their political allies are systematically looting the public treasury with gold-plated pensions, jeopardizing the finances of state and local governments around the country, removing themselves from legal accountability, and doing it all in the name of humble working men and women just looking for their fair share. Government employees have turned themselves into a coddled class that lives better than its private-sector counterpart, and with more impunity. The public’s servants have become our masters.
                  http://reason.com/archives/2010/01/12/class-war/

                  and:

                  Several analyses of average wages and benefits in the public and private sectors reveal that state and local government workers earn more than private sector workers. According to the most recent Employer Costs for Employee Compensation survey from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, as of December 2009, state and local government employees earned total compensation of $39.60 an hour, compared to $27.42 an hour for private industry workers-a difference of over 44 percent. This includes 35 percent higher wages and nearly 69 percent greater benefits.
                  Data from the U.S. Census Bureau similarly show that in 2007 the average annual salary of a California state government employee was $53,958, nearly 32 percent greater than the average private sector worker ($40,991). In addition, as noted by reporter and Calpensions.com blogger Ed Mendel, in 2006 the state conducted a comparison of state and private sector compensation for the first time in two decades. While the Department of Personnel Administration survey did not include all job classifications, the analysis determined a number of benchmark job classifications and found that state compensation was greater than private sector compensation for clerical jobs, accountants, custodians, electricians, stationary engineers, and analysts, but lagged in medical occupations.
                  http://reason.org/news/show/public-s...-sector-salary

                  and finally

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

                    Originally posted by aaron View Post
                    A guy who owns 30 bagel stores ought to know to pay his sales tax. When he does not and the state gets around to collecting it, we are supposed to cry him a river?
                    the discussion is whether that tax is justified in any way whatsoever.

                    So you are fine with the tax? wow... ok

                    What if tomorrow they put an extra 25% on gold sales, would that be justified, or on bread sales?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

                      I have run the stop sign down the street for years... when I get a ticket, I am not going to whine about it. This guy is not even getting fined! He is just paying what he was supposed to. He has thirty stores! Might he have an accountant or attorney look at his business just once?

                      The article makes the tax sound ridiculous, I agree. However, most jurisdictions seem to tax restaurants higher than groceries. What is a restaurant item and what is a grocery? It looks like it was spelled out quite clearly in the NY tax code. He just chose to ignore it (or not learn about it).

                      But, yes, I am resentful now that you bring it up. We are supposed to be sympathetic to the bagel king of New York, but fvck those dirty, whiny teachers?

                      Sales taxes on luxury items are about as fair as I can think. It sucks that NY government is lame and did not collect their taxes before. How about we get pissed at the incompetence of the tax collectors for all those years?

                      The article is pure propaganda and spin. Never mind that Wall Street bastards brought down the world economy and continue to rape us all. Bagels are more important.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

                        What would you consider a fair tax? --> While I feel a sales tax is still pretty regressive, it is certainly better than other forms, no? Restaurants pay a certain tax rate compared to grocery stores. This guy felt like he was a grocery store and got caught.

                        A new 25% tax on gold previously purchased? Yes, that would be unfair. However, a tax that has been around for years, one that I chose to ignore but got caught for at some point, well... I fail to see the problem with that.

                        Bread sale = grocery
                        Fancy bread sandwich from a restaurant = not grocery

                        I do not know exactly how they define it, but again, a guy who ones 30 bagel stores ought to know.
                        The fact that there was no fine for tax evasion seems to indicate that they were at least a bit sympathetic to the guy.

                        I know it sounds like a ridiculous/funny law, but how would you differentiate between bagel sales in grocery stores as opposed to restaurant sales? How would you write the law?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

                          [QUOTE=aaron;172595

                          While teachers are being fired across the state because of budget cuts.....
                          [/QUOTE]

                          Tissue? Welcome to the real world.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

                            That year, 646 restaurants were audited for bagel malfeasance in New York City alone.
                            Wow - I never thought that I'd live to see the day where "bagel" and "malfeasance" could be used in the same sentence.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: States getting desperate, New York taxes Bagels!

                              BigBagel sez order your bagel plain with cream cheese on the side. You give it the schmear not the bagel guy and you beat the tax man out of his 8 cents. No?

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