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  • Great Depression, Great Recession

    Great Depression, Great Recession

    FOUR OAKS -- In these troubled economic times, passionate discussions often center on the Great Depression, Franklin D. Roosevelt and his New Deal. Did FDR and his train of government agencies deal a good hand to millions of Americans?

    They did. Roosevelt used the government to provide relief, recovery from the Depression and reform of the economic system. Americans' quality of life improved.

    The New Deal brought relief to most Americans. Voters responded by electing FDR to an unprecedented four terms in good part because of his popular programs to help "the Forgotten Man." No amount of conservative spin or revisionist history can change this fact. In the 1936 election, FDR carried 46 of the 48 states.

    As conservatives cried "the economy will work itself out in the long run," Harry Hopkins, a Roosevelt adviser, famously replied: "People don't eat in the long run, they eat every day." Sound familiar today?

    FDR called for "bold, persistent experimentation" to help Americans. The gold standard was abandoned to stop deflation and stabilize farm and manufacturing prices. The FDIC was created to restore public confidence in the financial system and to protect small depositors. The Glass-Steagall Act required banks to divest themselves of securities operations, separating investment and commercial banking operations. (This was enacted to reduce commercial bank involvement in stock market investment. This act was repealed in 1999, unfortunately.)

    The WPA employed about 8.5 million Americans over its seven-year history, in projects that were not to compete with private business. The REA provided loans to local cooperatives that took electricity to 90 percent of rural homes by 1939, up from about 10 percent in 1930. This prompted private business to extend service into the countryside and to lower rates. The TVA brought jobs and electric power to seven states.

    The very popular CCC addressed the problem of jobless young men between the ages of 18 and 25. Conservation projects changed the landscape of America over the nine years of the program. The Social Security Act of 1935 assured retirees a pension and benefits for the unemployed.

    In 1933, the civilian unemployment rate was nearly 25 percent. If we count people in work-relief jobs as employed, the jobless range was about 10 percent by 1940. During FDR's first term, GDP grew at an annual rate of about 9 percent. The GDP grew about 11 percent annually after 1937-38.

    The Great Depression did not end with conservative demands for cutting taxes and spending, or reducing government activity or decreasing the debt. The enormous fiscal stimulus - yes, government borrowing, taxing and spending - to finance World War II led the U.S. out of the Depression. The debt rose from $43 billion in 1940 to $258.7 billion in 1945. The unemployment rate fell to 1.2 percent in 1944. The national debt was fully 121 percent of GDP, compared with an estimated 95 percent today.

    A cutback in New Deal spending in 1938 resulted in an economic contraction. The economy expanded again in 1939 as spending increased. Taxing, borrowing and spending - government stimulus - brought the United States out of the Great Depression.

    After facing personal economic ruin and our capitalistic system gone awry, did millions of innocent, unfortunate victims appreciate the government help? Did the New Deal programs help get them back on track? You betcha!

    E. Wayne Stewart is an adjunct professor of political science at Johnston Community College in Smithfield.


    Well what are the conservatives proposing today - Why Did Tax Cuts ‘All Of A Sudden Become Something We, Quote, Pay For?’

    Earlier this month, Reps. John Boehner (R-OH) and Mike Pence (R-IN) appeared on Meet the Press and were unable to explain their desire to extend the Bush tax cuts for the richest two percent of Americans with their rhetoric about deficit reduction. “Listen, what you’re trying to do is get into this Washington game and their funny accounting over there,” Boehner said, when asked if Republicans planned to pay for extending tax cuts for the rich.

    Today, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) ran into the same trouble with MTP host David Gregory, and scoffed at the very notion of paying for tax cuts. “Why did it all of a sudden become something that we, quote, ‘pay for?’” McConnell asked.
    MCCONNELL: What are you talking about, paid for? This is existing tax policy. It’s been in place for ten years. [...]

    GREGORY: For a final time, I’ll go back to my question which is, the extension of the tax cuts would cost $3.2 trillion. That’s borrowed money, that adds to the deficit. Do you have a plan to pay for that extension?

    MCCONNELL: You’re talking about current tax policy. Why did it all of a sudden become something that we, quote, ‘pay for’?
    Watch it:



    In addition to incorrectly stating the effect that the expiration of the cuts would have on small businesses, McConnell basically summed up the Republican approach here, which is that cutting taxes for the rich is either free or worth exploding the deficit to implement. In reality, extending just the tax cuts for the richest two percent of Americans — which President Obama has proposed allowing to expire — costs $830 billion over ten years and $36 billion next year alone.

    This week, the Washington Post excoriated Republicans for almost unanimously backing a proposal by Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) that would permanently extend all of the Bush tax cuts, calling it “a chilling sign of what a number of lawmakers believe passes for fiscal responsibility.” Of course, maybe McConnell and Senate Republicans simply agree with former Vice President Dick Cheney’s pronouncement that “deficits don’t matter.”

  • #2
    Re: Great Depression, Great Recession

    Stimulus in the New Deal of FDR added real value to the economy of America and made America productive. The cost of doing business in America was lowered.

    Some New Deal projects which made America more productive: SF-Oakland Bay Bridge, the Hoover Dam, the TVA, the Bonneville Dam, the Golden Gate Bridge, among many others.

    For kids who might not understand what productivity means: Imagine waiting hours in San Francisco to travel to Oakland because there was no bridge. What would that wait cost in terms of doing business in SF and Oakland? Or imagine what electricity and water might cost in southern California, southern Nevada, and Arizona without a Hoover Dam?

    The problem with Obama's stimulus programme is that it just helicoptered money to bail-outs for big banks, banks that were deemed, "too big to fail". Within hours after the Demos approved the stimulus programme requested by Bernanke, bank managers on Wall Street were awarding themselves bonuses.

    The Obama stimulus programme did not stimulate anything in America except for theft. The Democrats did not understand the lessons of the New Deal in the 1930s. So $1.6 trillion in TARP money was dumped into the nation's biggest banks and insurance companies and failing auto companies, and little or nothing now is to show for that, except that $1.6 trillion has been added to the nation's debt.

    The problem was that the Obama bunch did not have a plan for stimulus spending. So, the $1.6 trillion dis-appeared overnight, literally.

    Yes, the New Deal worked, but no, the TARP was a complete failure. And now, like dirty dishes and broken glasses after a wild party, the $1.6 trillion has to be paid-back.

    Did the Obama Administration build hydro-electric dams, as the FDR Administration did in the New Deal? Sadly, the answer is, no.

    Did the Obama Administration build atomic power plants as the Eisenhower and Truman Administrations did, as a legacy to the New Deal? And again, sadly, the Obama Administration did no such thing.

    What did the Obama Administration do? Nothing. And meanwhile, the biggest banks in the country became enriched thanks to the TARP.

    America's productivity? That went down the toilet.
    Last edited by Starving Steve; August 23, 2010, 09:07 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Great Depression, Great Recession

      Sometimes it is worth going back to see how we got to where we now stand. Its Called OVERDOSE and I apologize if it has aired in the US already but I think it would be "not allowed" (Peter Shiff, Gerald Celente and other familiar faces.)
      Remember that light you see forward in the tunnel - Well This is STILL unfolding as we speak. 2008 will be regarded as the good old days
      http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/625008
      It will cost you download but it summarizes the spiral into failed policies and 'pushed' presidential mandates
      43mins and 40 seconds of "holy crap you have screwed us good."
      Stimulus that built things that were never useful or needed.
      PS : when it loads hit the continue button under the 4 (available only 13 more days)
      Last edited by thunderdownunder; August 24, 2010, 06:55 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Great Depression, Great Recession

        Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
        Stimulus in the New Deal of FDR added real value to the economy of America and made America productive. The cost of doing business in America was lowered.

        Some New Deal projects which made America more productive: SF-Oakland Bay Bridge, the Hoover Dam, the TVA, the Bonneville Dam, the Golden Gate Bridge, among many others.

        For kids who might not understand what productivity means: Imagine waiting hours in San Francisco to travel to Oakland because there was no bridge. What would that wait cost in terms of doing business in SF and Oakland? Or imagine what electricity and water might cost in southern California, southern Nevada, and Arizona without a Hoover Dam?

        The problem with Obama's stimulus programme is that it just helicoptered money to bail-outs for big banks, banks that were deemed, "too big to fail". Within hours after the Demos approved the stimulus programme requested by Bernanke, bank managers on Wall Street were awarding themselves bonuses.

        The Obama stimulus programme did not stimulate anything in America except for theft. The Democrats did not understand the lessons of the New Deal in the 1930s. So $1.6 trillion in TARP money was dumped into the nation's biggest banks and insurance companies and failing auto companies, and little or nothing now is to show for that, except that $1.6 trillion has been added to the nation's debt.

        The problem was that the Obama bunch did not have a plan for stimulus spending. So, the $1.6 trillion dis-appeared overnight, literally.

        Yes, the New Deal worked, but no, the TARP was a complete failure. And now, like dirty dishes and broken glasses after a wild party, the $1.6 trillion has to be paid-back.

        Did the Obama Administration build hydro-electric dams, as the FDR Administration did in the New Deal? Sadly, the answer is, no.

        Did the Obama Administration build atomic power plants as the Eisenhower and Truman Administrations did, as a legacy to the New Deal? And again, sadly, the Obama Administration did no such thing.

        What did the Obama Administration do? Nothing. And meanwhile, the biggest banks in the country became enriched thanks to the TARP.

        America's productivity? That went down the toilet.
        Hoover dam was started under the Hoover Administration, thus the name Hoover.

        TARP was adopted under Bush administration.

        1st commercial nuclear power plant, June 1954 in Soviet Union. Truman didn't build any nuclear power plants.

        Don't let facts get in your way.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Great Depression, Great Recession

          Originally posted by Rajiv View Post
          [LEFT]
          [COLOR=#000000]
          Well what are the conservatives proposing today - Why Did Tax Cuts ‘All Of A Sudden Become Something We, Quote, Pay For?’
          Are you proposing we go for war and fiscal incontinence instead?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Great Depression, Great Recession

            Originally posted by Chris View Post
            Are you proposing we go for war and fiscal incontinence instead?
            Going for war...isn't that the real reason the Bush Administration started the war in Iraq in the spring of 2003? Was it not, at least in part, a desperate, deliberately inflationary response to the last "deflation scare"?

            Just askin'...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Great Depression, Great Recession

              "Tax Policy" , found this little piece - http://www.rense.com/general91/esd.htm , a taste of things to come.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Great Depression, Great Recession

                Originally posted by cmalbatros View Post
                "Tax Policy" , found this little piece - http://www.rense.com/general91/esd.htm , a taste of things to come.
                Article starts;
                Three Devastating Tax
                Waves Will Destroy Many
                From Americans for Tax Reform

                In just six months, on January 1, 2011, the largest tax hikes in the history of America will take effect.
                An anti tax rant, probably to be followed by an anti deficit rant.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Great Depression, Great Recession

                  Marshall Auerback had a piece on Yves Smith's "naked capitaliism" (Aug. 5) that contradicts the commonly-held opinion that the Great Depression was only brought to an end by WWII:

                  "Most people believe the economy crashed between 1929 and 1932 and then remained depressed until the Second World War, which finally mobilized the economy’s idle resources and brought about a full recovery. That’s complete bunk if you calculate the unemployment data correctly (see here for an explanation) . Even leaving aside the unemployment calculations, it is abundantly clear that, once the Great Depression hit bottom in early 1933, the US economy embarked on four years of expansion that constituted the biggest cyclical boom in U.S. economic history. For four years, real GDP grew at a 12% rate and nominal GDP grew at a 14% rate. There was another shorter and shallower depression in 1937 largely caused by renewed fiscal tightening (and higher Federal Reserve margin requirements). This second depression has led to the misconception that the central bank was pushing on a string throughout all of the 1930s, until the giant fiscal stimulus of the wartime effort finally brought the economy out of depression." (Auerback: The Real Reason Banks Aren’t Lending By Marshall Auerback)

                  Auerback doesn't explain why the Roosevelt administration engaged in fiscal tightening to bring about that second depression in 1937. I suspect fiscal tightening was the administration's response to the strike wave sparked by the Flint Sit-Down Strike (Dec. 30, 1936-Feb. 11, 1937), "the strike that was heard round the world." The second depression was the rulers' attempt to re-instill fear in a working class that was getting too sure of itself.

                  Why is Auerback's point so important? The myth that only World War II brought us out of the Great Depression encourages the belief that there really is nothing governments can do--short of catastrophic wars--to restore a viable economy. In fact the Roosevelt Administration had the policy tools at its fingertips to end the Depression and dramatically cut the unemployment rate, and it did so successfully for four years, from 1933-37.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Great Depression, Great Recession

                    My uncle was working on plans for the first U.S. nuclear power plants, and this was shortly after WWII. Valecitos was finished and already operating in 1957. Valecitos was just outside of Fremont, California.

                    Hoover Dam was called "Boulder Dam", and it was funded and completed under FDR in the New Deal. The name was changed to Hoover Dam, but the New Deal funded and managed the construction of the dam.

                    Don't even think of blaming Bush for the TARP. The funding of the TARP with $1.6 TRILLION DOLLARS began days after Obama was sworn into office. Nancy Pelosi told the Congress that passage of the TARP was necessary immediately, and the U.S. Congress met in an unusual weekend session to pass the TARP funding.

                    Nancy Pelosi's exact words: "We've never been spoken to like that before by any head of the Federal Reserve.... This is truly an emergency."
                    Last edited by Starving Steve; August 24, 2010, 11:38 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Great Depression, Great Recession

                      Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
                      Don't even think of blaming Bush for the TARP. The funding of the TARP with $1.6 TRILLION DOLLARS began days after Obama was sworn into office. Nancy Pelosi told the Congress that passage of the TARP was necessary immediately, and the U.S. Congress met in an unusual weekend session to pass the TARP funding.

                      Nancy Pelosi's exact words: "We've never been spoken to like that before by any head of the Federal Reserve.... This is truly an emergency."
                      I think we need to focus the blame on ourselves for voting all these yahoos into office ... OK if we're not comfortable with shoulding a lot of the blame, then let's blame the financial oligarchy that basically runs the country through our elected leaders who have been captured and/or sold out en masse.

                      TARP was only 2 years ago, so revisionist history is a little hard to push just now ....Here are the facts:

                      The Bush admininistration via its Sec or Treasury hank Paulson proposed TARP as a way to deal with potential "dire consequences" of not addressing the financial crisis after Lehman collapse

                      The vast majority (>80%) of americans opposed TARP (including yours truly who wrote and phoned my congressman and senators)

                      The senate voted overwhelmingly Yea (including presidential candidates John McCain and Barack Obama) for TARP

                      The house voted against it initially, but a few days later enough arm wringing got a majority Yea vote out of the house.

                      Bush signed TARP into law.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Great Depression, Great Recession

                        Originally posted by thunderdownunder View Post
                        http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/625008
                        It will cost you download but it summarizes the spiral into failed policies and 'pushed' presidential mandates
                        43mins and 40 seconds of "holy crap you have screwed us good."
                        Drat - after getting my mouth watering over the prospect of some good doomer porn, all I get is:
                        Due to copyright reasons this video program is available for download by people located in Australia only. If you are not located in Australia, you are not authorised to view this video.
                        Most folks are good; a few aren't.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Great Depression, Great Recession

                          Originally posted by Starving Steve
                          Valecitos
                          That's Vallecitos with two letter el's.
                          Most folks are good; a few aren't.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Great Depression, Great Recession

                            Originally posted by we_are_toast View Post
                            Hoover dam was started under the Hoover Administration, thus the name Hoover.

                            .
                            Yes, but that didn't keep Roosevelt from trying to claim it( or at least deny Hoover's role).

                            From Wiki

                            "10,000 people were present for the President's speech in which he avoided mentioning the name of former President Hoover,[61] who was not invited to the ceremony.[62] To mark the occasion, a three-cent stamp was issued by the United States Post Office Department—bearing the name "Boulder Dam", the official name of the dam between 1933 and 1947."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Great Depression, Great Recession

                              Originally posted by flintlock View Post
                              Yes, but that didn't keep Roosevelt from trying to claim it( or at least deny Hoover's role).

                              From Wiki

                              "10,000 people were present for the President's speech in which he avoided mentioning the name of former President Hoover,[61] who was not invited to the ceremony.[62] To mark the occasion, a three-cent stamp was issued by the United States Post Office Department—bearing the name "Boulder Dam", the official name of the dam between 1933 and 1947."
                              Yep! I've seen parts of the speech many times. It's dam funny to see him call it Boulder. Not one of FDR's finest moments!

                              And here is a bit about the peaceful atom;

                              In 1953, US President Dwight D. Eisenhower gave his Atoms for Peace speech to the United Nations. Commercial nuclear power generation was cornerstone of his plan. A proposal by Duquesne Light Company was accepted by Admiral Rickover and the plans for the Shippingport Atomic Power Station started.
                              Ground was broken on Labor Day, September 9, 1954. President Eisenhower remotely initiated the first scoop of dirt at the ceremony.[3] The reactor first went critical at 4:30 AM on December 12, 1957.

                              Comment

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