WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

[jtabeb]

Re: WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

"On this mosque two blocks from Ground Zero in NYC, maybe the best solution would be an inter-faith centre, not just for worship, but for co-operation and peace with all communities."

THAT is what is proposed, is it not? (Besides, I would support your proposal anyway, even if it is not the active proposal).

I've never been a fan of "IN YOUR FACE" religion. Your face always ends up being the one that is forcibly placed in front of others. I have to ask why sometimes, but then again, this in your face thing is the same charge that was leveled at the civil rights movement, the womens movement, and others. So changing attitudes is never easy, nor without controversy, but sometimes, it is necessary in society.

I wonder if we are at that point again in our history, where seeing real people vs. caricatures of people is necessary once more.

The American civil rights movement, and Gandhi's attempts to turn out the British from India, were largely peaceful attempts (they were not always successful nor were they met in always a peaceful manner) to change the status quo. Let's hope we can affect change AND be more peaceful in our attempts. Let us also hope that the response is also more in kind with the spirit of the attempt, that is, peaceful.

[llanlad2]

Re: WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

BK

For example, a $29 Billion Bill in US Congress to secure the jobs of Teachers, Fire Fighters, and Police....when did this sort of Hail Mary Pass Legislation to secure overpaid Government workers.

Not that I live in the US but I for one think those particular government workers should be paid enough to support their families. I am not familiar with the pay structures in the US but can a teacher, firefighter or policeman support his family easily? Are those services a total waste of public money?

$29 billion seems small potatoes compared to $663,255,000,000 on the military a year. Plus $50 billion on the CIA (although that's an estimate as it's classified!). And that doesn't take into account the human capital waste of some of the brightest minds. That's where the austerity should begin.

[cpnscarlet]

Re: WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

"On this mosque two blocks from Ground Zero in NYC, maybe the best solution would be an inter-faith centre, not just for worship, but for co-operation and peace with all communities."

East is East and West is West and neither the twain shall meet. True for Kipling's time and True now. Islam and Judeo-Christian Theologies are incompatible. And Judeo-Christian Theology is the basis for the ideologies of the American Founding Fathers. Islam, Sharia, The Califete...they are all incompatible with the American way of life. As far as I'm concerned, everything I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11. Where are the moderate Muslims? They don't exist.

And to the basic point, beyond politics - When Christ said "I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life. Nobody comes to the Father but through Me.", that is about "in your face" as you can get. Sorry. You must take a stand on either side or sit down and shut up...and then wait for God to spit you out for your tepid nuetrality.

Oh...and lest I forget. The collapse is bound to come eventually. Gold will spike as the horseman with the scales rides. A quart of barley for a days wages? Sounds like hyperinflation to me.

[jtabeb]

Re: WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

"East is East and West is West and neither the twain shall meet. True for Kipling's time and True now. Islam and Judeo-Christian Theologies are incompatible. And Judeo-Christian Theology is the basis for the ideologies of the American Founding Fathers. Islam, Sharia, The Califete...they are all incompatible with the American way of life. As far as I'm concerned, everything I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11. Where are the moderate Muslims? They don't exist."

Well this Muslim was flying combat missions over Afghanistan after 9/11. (Flying, not making videos, but the video was funny, so why not).



Josh in the video was one of my co-pilots.

[Mega]

Re: WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP7qAdHIZu4
Mike

[cjppjc]

Re: WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

When Christ said "I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life. Nobody comes to the Father but through Me.", that is about "in your face" as you can get.

Or perhaps the thought is meant to teach us something else. So hard to know what has been saved with it's original essence. Probably only a small percent of the original teachings remain. I reread that sentence a few times. Maybe it is trying to say the way to God is through self perfection?

The Way, The Truth, The Life.

[BK]

Re: WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

Most Towns and Cities are drowning because of over paid Public servants. Yes - they need to be paid well - but, currently in my area people have seen their Property Taxes double since 2002. Why? Overly generous pay packages and staffing levels that are too high for most government services.
In the states many State Pension plans are underfunded for the liabilities they face in the future. Where will this Money come from? Who should you take the Money from to pay obilgations that Town/Cities/States couldn't afford when they were granted to the Unions.
The only way these obilgations will be paid is by massive increases in taxes or cutting services?
BTW - in the good ole days lots of Communities had Auxilary Police forces - these were volunteer Police men that would help during a parade or a major storm or a disaster. MAny Towns in America are serviced quite well by volunteer Firemen/women.

They reality is the demand for Fire Services is way down - most Fire men actually do Medical intervention kind of work - heart attacks , car accidents, fainiting,,,,,but, towns keep buying bigger and bigger fire engines.

[Adeptus]

Re: WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

When Christ said "I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life. Nobody comes to the Father but through Me.", that is about "in your face" as you can get.

Or perhaps the thought is meant to teach us something else. So hard to know what has been saved with it's original essence. Probably only a small percent of the original teachings remain. I reread that sentence a few times. Maybe it is trying to say the way to God is through self perfection?

The Way, The Truth, The Life.

Yes, that is pretty much what it is saying. When Jesus supposedly spoke those words, he spoke them as the Christ, which is the equivalent of a lower impermanent state of 'enlightenment' (in Eastern spiritual terms). Thus you can not reach union with the 'Father' (where Father=God or 'Kether' in kaballistic terms, or state of Satori in Zen buddhism, Moksha in Hinduism, etc) without first passing through the lower stages that lead to that final ultimate and permanent state of consciousness. So "me", and "I am" is not a reference to the person Jesus (a very common misunderstanding), but rather his state of consciousness that is available to all who follow the way. 'The way' (as they say in Taoism), is as you stated self perfection. Self perfection is not of the body, but rather of the psyche and purification of the mind which requires one to still and calm the mind. Which is why he later also says "Be still, and know that I am God". This is not a request for his followers to worship him, but rather the opposite - practice calming the mind and empty it, and you too will realize internally (not intellectually) "I am God" (everything in everyone everywhere in all of Eternity).

Christianity takes on entire new levels of meaning after you study Eastern spiritual paths

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming of the economy and dollar $igns... *grin* ;-)

Adeptus

[jtabeb]

Re: WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

When Christ said "I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life. Nobody comes to the Father but through Me.", that is about "in your face" as you can get.

Or perhaps the thought is meant to teach us something else. So hard to know what has been saved with it's original essence. Probably only a small percent of the original teachings remain. I reread that sentence a few times. Maybe it is trying to say the way to God is through self perfection?

The Way, The Truth, The Life.

I's funny, these are teachings of the Buddha. I would accept them as axioms for all religions.

"In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then beleive them to be true."

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

"Teach this triple truth to all: A generous heart, kind speech, and a life of service and compassion are the things which renew humanity. "

"It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell. "

"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path. " -> I would add that we must choose to make that choice. No one else can make it for us. Christianity teaches this as well, as does every major religion that I'm aware of. We all have to choose for ourselves.


"It is a man's own mind, not his enemy or foe, that lures him to evil ways. "

"However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? "


What WE CHOOSE to call our selves is not important. HOW WE CHOOSE to interact with one another is. Do your actions serve you or do they serve humanity, that is the moral litmus test we must all examine for ourselves.

Cultural and religious identities are a source of both pride AND prejudice. "Pride precedes a disaster, and an arrogant attitude precedes a fall." and prejudice, well here is a link to that http://www.understandingprejudice.org/.

Point is, maybe instead of Pride and Prejudice we should seek awareness and understanding as less destructive and more service oriented goals of our cultural and religious identities.

[jtabeb]

Re: WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

Through his path and life (as exemplars)? I wonder if this was transliterated to "through him"?

[jtabeb]

Re: WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

I wonder why the path of enlightenment is so filled with fear sometimes. Why is letting go of the false meanings and accepting the true meaning of insights so hard to do?
I'm asking for myself here. Sometimes it seems I make a lot of progress, other times it seems I "Run home to mamma" and have to run back to the flawed idea of having others tell me what is the RIGHT answer. Why do I do that?

[ggirod]

Re: WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

I wonder why the path of enlightenment is so filled with fear sometimes. Why is letting go of the false meanings and accepting the true meaning of insights so hard to do?

My reflection on your very good question .... I think the answer to that question is different for each individual but it may have some common themes. Once enlightenment starts coming it is intensely individual. Only few people are really good at communicating their insights but many can find and live by them. People who look to others for insights will find at least some disagreement and that leads one to question which one is "right". You certainly don't want to embrace something "wrong". Next thing you know, you are up to your knees in a muddy ditch of "proof" instead of walking along the road to knowledge. Add in the tendency for religion to be simplified and standardized for teaching and the odds of running afoul of some statement or another are pretty high. Teachings are pretty strong, having been established in childhood, so any conflict with old teachings can be disturbing. On the other hand, seeking insights from others can be a means of growing if you finally embrace whatever you gain.

Patience is an excellent tool on the never ending path to enlightenment - answers come when they come and urgently seeking resolution is just a way to cast patience to the wayside in favor of selfish demands for answers. Being "wrong" is often a waypoint on the path. Once an answer comes it is likely clear how you just reached readiness to comprehend it.

Hope that makes some sense and has an insight or two.

[jtabeb]

Re: WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

Once an answer comes it is likely clear how you just reached readiness to comprehend it.

What if when that answer finally does come it is so unique and special ( and wonderful, I might add) that it seems to be beyond the comprehension of nearly everyone else. Comprehension is maybe the wrong term, ability to accept may be more apt. OR, is that just an indication of how much further I have to go? (sorry, the last part was a rhetorical question)

[ggirod]

Re: WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

I guess that falls into communication. Only very rare and special people had lots of very deep insights coupled with the means to communicate them. I think most of those people ended up being the avatars/prophets of their times. Their interpretations are sometimes beautiful in their content and astounding in their clarity while other times very befuddling. Just witness how their written word has sometimes been twisted beyond recognition and I think you will see that even they had to grapple with the same problem.

I feel I have mastered a subject when I can explain it to a middle or high schooler and they can comprehend it. If someone cannot communicate an idea to me I am not always sure they understand it themselves.

So, maybe your lack of success in communicating it to others could mean you do not yet understand. If it is "so unique and special ( and wonderful, I might add)" though, you may find just assimilating it yourself is a lot of work. You may think you comprehend it but over time it reveals more to you. An insight can be like a seed that grows over many years elaborating itself into a thing of increasing beauty. Sharing that successfully with others could be a lot more work.

By the way, the journey never ends and anybody who starts out seriously has a long long way to go.

[cmalbatros]

Re: WHERE IS THE COLLASPE ? (Off Ed by Mega)

The "Collapse" is on a temporary hold, whilst the corporations/banksters work out how to fleece even more money out of an ever decreasing western economy and decreasing the cost of labour by moving business to different locations to take advantage of lower costs and lack of laws/workers rights , environment etc. Considering 50% of wealth in USA is now owned by the top1% of the population we at the bottom don't have any way, short of a revolution, to change things, so long as the "polit burough" can get their bribes. Kind of like running an engine with no oil, will run OK for a while until it goes BANG!!! GAME OVER.!!!!