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Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

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  • Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

    http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.ph...itiative_(2010)

    Proposition 19, also known as the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010, is a California ballot proposition which is on the November 2, 2010 California statewide ballot as an initiated state statute.

    Proposition 19, if approved by voters, will legalize various marijuana-related activities, allow local governments to regulate these activities, permit local governments (but not the state government) to impose and collect marijuana-related fees and taxes, and authorize various criminal and civil penalties. Proposition 19 was certified for the November statewide ballot on March 24, 2010. The official proponents of the measure are Richard Lee and Jeffrey Wayne Jones. Tax Cannabis 2010 is the official advocacy group for the initiative.

    Medical marijuana is already legal in California, due to the enactment of Proposition 215 in 1996. California's voters rejected a previous ballot initiative to legalize marijuana in 1972, when 1972's Proposition 19 was rejected by a margin of 66-33%.

    Allows people 21 years old or older to possess, cultivate, or transport marijuana for personal use. Permits local governments to regulate and tax commercial production and sale of marijuana to people 21 years old or older. Prohibits people from possessing marijuana on school grounds, using it in public, smoking it while minors are present, or providing it to anyone under 21 years old. Maintains current prohibitions against driving while impaired.

    Savings of up to several tens of millions of dollars annually to state and local governments on the costs of incarcerating and supervising certain marijuana offenders. Unknown but potentially major tax, fee, and benefit assessment revenues to state and local government related to the production and sale of marijuana products.

    Persons over the age of 21 may possess up to one ounce of marijuana for personal consumption. May use marijuana in a non-public place such as a residence or a public establishment licensed for on site marijuana consumption.

    May grow marijuana at a private residence in a space of up to 25 square feet for personal use. Local government may authorize businesses to sell up to 1 ounce of marijuana and to regulate the hours and location of the business.

    Allows for the transportation of marijuana from one dispensary in one area to another without regard to local laws of intermediate localities to the contrary. Allows the collection of taxes specifically to allow local governments to raise revenue or to offset any costs associated with marijuana regulation. Maintains existing laws against selling drugs to a minor and driving under the influence. Maintains an employer’s right to address on-the-job consumption of marijuana that affects an employee's job performance.

    Maintain existing laws against interstate or international transportation of marijuana. Any person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to sell marijuana, who knowingly sells or gives away marijuana to someone under the age of 21 results in them being banned from owning, operating, or being employed by a licensed marijuana establishment for one year. Any person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to sell marijuana, who knowingly sells or gives away marijuana to someone older the age of 18 but younger than 21, shall be imprisoned in county jail for up to six months and fined up to $1,000 per offense.

    Any person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to sell marijuana, who knowingly sells or gives away marijuana to someone age 14 to 17, shall be imprisoned in state prison for a period of three, four, or five years. Any person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to sell marijuana, who knowingly sells or gives away marijuana to someone under the age of 14, shall be imprisoned in state prison for a period of three, five, or seven years.

    In the time leading to 2010, California's state government's budget deficit has grown to be the largest of all American states. The California legislature has estimated that taxing the previously untaxed domestically grown $14 billion marijuana market would produce $1.4 billion a year, Taxing marijuana, supporters say, could be a smart way to help alleviate pressure on the state budget. Result in significant savings to state and local governments, potentially up to several tens of millions of dollars annually due to reduction of individuals incarcerated, on probation or on parole. Cells currently being used to house marijuana offenders could be used for other criminals, many of whom are now being released early because of a lack of jail space.

    Reduction in state and local costs for enforcement of marijuana-related offenses and the handling of related criminal cases in the court system, providing the opportunity for funds to be used to enforce other existing criminal laws. The RAND Corporation has found that law enforcement costs for marijuana enforcement are approximately $300 million a year.

    Potential increase in the costs of substance abuse programs due to speculated increase in usage of marijuana, possibly having the effect of reducing spending on mandatory treatment for some criminal offenders, or result in the redirection of these funds for other offenders. The measure could potentially reduce both the costs and offsetting revenues of the state's medical marijuana program as adults over 21 would be less likely to participate in the existing program as obtaining marijuana would be easier, thus making use of existing medical marijuana program unnecessary.

    There would be a reduction in fines collected under current state law but a possible increase in local civil fines authorized by existing local laws. The cumulative effect on fines is largely unknown.
    Last edited by bobola; August 19, 2010, 02:17 PM. Reason: added link

  • #2
    Re: Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

    May grow marijuana at a private residence in a space of up to 25 square feet for personal use. Local government may authorize businesses to sell up to 1 ounce of marijuana and to regulate the hours and location of the business.
    Big Box ization of Cannabis. Get rid of the small commercial growers. Limit the personal space of the home owner and funnel the business to your friends that get the permits for retail ops.

    The existing MMJ laws are a better current system for the little guy (user and producer) in California because literally anyone get an MMJ card. If you get busted for possession out there, you are just plain stupid.
    Last edited by Slimprofits; August 19, 2010, 02:38 PM.

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    • #3
      Re: Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

      A mainstay of the price of marijuana is its illegality. Once legal, without Big Pharma monopoly pricing, the price should plummet. We'll see, depending on the voters.

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      • #4
        Re: Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

        Originally posted by don View Post
        A mainstay of the price of marijuana is its illegality. Once legal, without Big Pharma monopoly pricing, the price should plummet. We'll see, depending on the voters.
        Indeed, and the high black-market price of illicit drugs is what fuels gangs. "Controlled substance" laws are the penultimate examples of government in action--they fully show the consequences of ignoring the law of unintended consequences in all its splendor and misery.

        Of course, speaking in very broad terms, most of the support previously for decriminalizing illicit substances has come from idiots that don't know how to make a good argument. Stuff like "my body, my choice!" may be philosophically strong, but they certainly don't win the public over. And, of course, those opposed to decriminalizing (most) illicit substances use idiotic arguments as well.

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        • #5
          Re: Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

          Originally posted by Ghent12 View Post
          they fully show the consequences of ignoring the law of unintended consequences in all its splendor and misery.
          I wouldn't jump to the conclusion it was all "unintended".

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          • #6
            Re: Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

            Originally posted by don View Post
            I wouldn't jump to the conclusion it was all "unintended".
            Controlled substances became controlled largely because they threatened other, entrenched interest groups, allegedly. Hemp threatened timber, for instance. Additionally, "it's for our own good." That excuse has been used innumerable times. I am sure that governments did not intend to create criminal gangs via passing laws controlling substances. The government wanted Al Capone, for instance? An absurd theory, I think, without some evidence.

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            • #7
              Re: Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

              The War On Drugs has been incredibly valuable to the government, in a myriad of ways.

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              • #8
                Re: Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

                Story about a grower getting busted in CA.
                He had 2,700 plants growing, worth an estimated street value of $24,000,000.
                Works out to just under $9,000 per plant..!!

                Wow. Expensive weeds......

                http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...ills-park.html
                Last edited by bobola; August 19, 2010, 05:53 PM. Reason: typo

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                • #9
                  Re: Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

                  Originally posted by don
                  A mainstay of the price of marijuana is its illegality. Once legal, without Big Pharma monopoly pricing, the price should plummet. We'll see, depending on the voters.
                  Truly?

                  How much is a pack of cigarettes these days vs. production cost?

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                  • #10
                    Re: Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

                    Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                    Truly?

                    How much is a pack of cigarettes these days vs. production cost?
                    How much would a similar sized pack of marijuana cigs cost today? More than the 3 or 4 dollars tobacco costs. If pot is legalized, the price would almost become insignificant compared to the current illegal price.

                    This could help solve the unemployment problem too. With everyone stoned, productivity would drop and more workers would be needed.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

                      Actually, I think the price will collapse even further, to essentially nothing, because LED grow lights have gotten so efficient and so cheap. If people can grow their own, no one will buy.

                      By the way, why was it made illegal in the first place? It was commonly grown everywhere in the world for rope etc. I have seen discussions saying that whereas a lot of paper used to be made from hemp, forest owners wanted to ban extensive growing of hemp so that they could convert their trees into paper. Part of this process was to change the name from hemp to marijuana, because people at the time would have laughed if you said you wanted to ban hemp.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

                        Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                        Truly?

                        How much is a pack of cigarettes these days vs. production cost?
                        Things are becoming clearer, oh swami. Isn't much of the cost of cigarettes sin taxes?

                        Marijuana drug enforcement would simply shift to more traditional tax-evasion sweeps. Nobody's departments would shrink. If anything there would be expansion.

                        Build you a fire with hickory,
                        Hickory, ash and oak.

                        Don't use no green or rotten' wood,
                        They'll catch you by the smoke.

                        We just lay there by the juniper,
                        While the moon is bright.
                        Watch those jugs a-fillin',
                        In the pale moon light.

                        Last edited by don; August 20, 2010, 01:46 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

                          What are the odds of this passing?
                          Any speculation on the release or pardon of those in prison for things that are now legal?
                          And what about the Federal Gov's reaction? Don't they "hassle" CA-legal medical MJ growers & distributors?

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                          • #14
                            Re: Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

                            My Daddy he made whiskey,
                            My Granddad he did too.

                            We ain't paid no whiskey tax,
                            Since 1792.

                            We just lay there by the juniper,
                            While the moon is bright.
                            Watch those jugs a-fillin',
                            In the pale moon light.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Will Proposition 19 bail out CA..?? - marijuana legalization vote, November 2

                              From Rand’s Drug Policy Research Center;

                              The cost of marijuana would drop as much as 80%, from the current $300 - $400 range to about $38.

                              The researchers were not certain how much that decline in price might spur use, but noted that one typical estimate is that a 10% drop in price increases use by about 3%. Other factors, such as the elimination of legal risks, could also increase usage between 5% and 50%.

                              Based on a statewide $50 per ounce tax proposed in a legalization bill introduced by Sen. Tom Ammiano (D-San Francisco), the report said state tax revenues could range from $650 million to $1.49 billion.

                              http://www.rand.org/pubs/occasional_...RAND_OP315.pdf

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