spotting anti-materialism

[jk]

one of the itulip predictions has been that voluntary simplicity, downshifting, or whatever-you-want-to-call-getting-by-with-less, would become increasingly espoused as a value choice, a justification as well as explanation of the diminished american material lifestyle. thought i'd start a thread on spotting same.

long article in the ny times: "But Will It Make You Happy?"
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/bu...e&ref=homepage

[Rajiv]

Re: spotting anti-materialism

JK,

Don had started a thread earlier with this article in it -- the thread - Notes from the New Normal

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: spotting anti-materialism

JK,

Don had started a thread earlier with this article in it -- the thread - Notes from the New Normal

That is the problem with about 90% (my guess of percentage) of the voluminous number of threads started by don in that the titles he chooses (out of what I think he sees as his own cleverness) suggests nothing about what is the content of the thread. For those who while away their lives clicking on every thread that shows up on itulip, such titling is super duper and fun and may fully support the stated "entertainment" purpose of itulip. For those who limit what they consider reading, don's lack of descriptive titling makes them a waste of time.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: spotting anti-materialism

jk, if this spotting-anti-materialism-thread is anything like your "'Sightings of references to the term 'deflation"'" thread that was begun on 9/12/08, then you will again turn out to have been premature in your concerns. Personally, I don't think we are yet at the point where deflation is Time or Newsweek front page cover material, so perhaps it will be at least two years before there becomes widespread awareness of individuals manifesting "anti-materialism."

I think you are quite adept at spotting trends, but I think you tend to be early.

If there is to emerge a lot of "anti-materialism" amongst Americans, it suggests to me that there is a lot more unwinding to take place with regard to deflation. I don't see "anti-materialism" in Americans amounting to inflationary forces.

Rest assured I'll be keeping my eye out for instances of "anti-materialism" and unless I cannot remember thread's name will report back on them.

[jk]

Re: spotting anti-materialism

you're certainly right, jim, that i tend to be early [when i'm not just wrong]. but it in this case it's fun to try to be prescient. like my "spotting references to deflation" thread, i think this thread has a potential life span of years if people bother to fulfill its agenda. but "voluntary simplicity", i.e. the assertion of choice of a diminished material lifestyle, doesn't necessarily imply deflation. during stagflationary times lifestyles diminished, as wages didn't keep up with prices.

[we_are_toast]

Re: spotting anti-materialism

Last week on PBS they did a story about "tiny houses". These micro houses are just a few hundred square feet, and often built with sweat equity.

I suspect the downsizing won't be voluntary, but many will come to the realization they really didn't need all that stuff, and especially all that BIG stuff. Many will discover that "stuff" seldom brings you happiness or satisfaction and will learn there are many other more valuable things in life worth pursuing. Rather than valuing my major purchases in dollars, I used to value those purchases in hours of labor at my job. Unless you've got a wonderful job, you quickly discover what the true cost of something is, and you just as quickly learn how you really don't need it.

Maybe the marketers who constantly bombard the culture with the message of, more is better, will finally have to do some downsizing themselves.

[don]

Re: spotting anti-materialism

That is the problem with about 90% (my guess of percentage) of the voluminous number of threads started by don in that the titles he chooses (out of what I think he sees as his own cleverness) suggests nothing about what is the content of the thread. For those who while away their lives clicking on every thread that shows up on itulip, such titling is super duper and fun and may fully support the stated "entertainment" purpose of itulip. For those who limit what they consider reading, don's lack of descriptive titling makes them a waste of time.

Jim, not to dismiss your complaint but the title is almost always my only comment on the thread. I like to keep my opinion brief and succinct and find this approach acceptable. (I don't always succeed in that goal) I do enjoy your more expansive posts, including this one, #4,187.

[FRED]

Re: spotting anti-materialism

jk does a great job posting threads that tie current developments to forecasts made by iTulip in the past. Whether current developments confirm the forecast or not, by calling attention to the forecastwe can continue to refine our foecasting meathods by learning which forecasts worked and which do not and why.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: spotting anti-materialism

Jim, not to dismiss your complaint but the title is almost always my only comment on the thread. I like to keep my opinion brief and succinct and find this approach acceptable. (I don't always succeed in that goal) I do enjoy your more expansive posts, including this one, #4,187.

Sorry for continuing off-topic here, but perhaps this is worthy of pursuing a bit further. don, you must read a lot on the web, that is my surmise, and one thing about iTulip is that it allows contributors to bring in a lot of material not only from the pure news media but also from other websites, e.g zerohedge as one. For people who do not have time to look at 25 or 50 other websites everyday or every other day, then this importing of items of interest by people such as you into one website, don, probably serves a useful purpose. Nevertheless, every click on something that I make takes some seconds, then one has to ferret out what is the post actually conveying--all of which is to me a waste of time. If one looks at most things on the web that contains articles, it is almost ubiquitous that the titling suggest the content.

Because I am the only one complaining, perhaps you should continue as you think is best. You strike me as a not-so-dumb guy, so why not express yourself more about content vs. continuation of the silliness in titling?

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: spotting anti-materialism

one of the itulip predictions has been that voluntary simplicity, downshifting, or whatever-you-want-to-call-getting-by-with-less, would become increasingly espoused as a value choice, a justification as well as explanation of the diminished american material lifestyle. thought i'd start a thread on spotting same.

long article in the ny times: "But Will It Make You Happy?"
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/bu...e&ref=homepage

This was a great article, but I was rather surprised the NY times didn't talk about more people doing this in NYC.

Sure, we have several hundred thousand millionaires, but a lot of people are hardly living life large. I live with my girlfriend in my 400-square foot 2-room studio. More amusingly, I have a 42-inch television mounted on the wall in front of our bed, although I have it hooked up to my computer and use it more for the occasional movie and listening to music. I have a pretty large table that seats two very comfortably collapsed and seats eight with both leaves open. I even have folding chairs for dinner parties.

But why can I live this way? Obviously, there is plenty to do in New York City that makes staying at home unnecessary. In most of the country, this kind of lifestyle would be impossible. Portland I guess has something there - I've heard it's a great place but the unemployment rate there takes it off the table for a job.

When it comes down to it, all you really need in a home is a bed, a table to eat on, a kitchen to prepare food, a bathroom, and bookshelves.

[EricPhan]

Re: spotting anti-materialism

When it comes down to it, all you really need in a home is a bed, a table to eat on, a kitchen to prepare food, a bathroom, and bookshelves.

I love physical books but they do take a lot of space. Looking forward to when ebook readers reign - easier to buy, read, organize.

[ASH]

Re: spotting anti-materialism

Sure, we have several hundred thousand millionaires, but a lot of people are hardly living life large. I live with my girlfriend in my 400-square foot 2-room studio. More amusingly, I have a 42-inch television mounted on the wall in front of our bed, although I have it hooked up to my computer and use it more for the occasional movie and listening to music. I have a pretty large table that seats two very comfortably collapsed and seats eight with both leaves open. I even have folding chairs for dinner parties.

Wow. Mad props! You guys from NYC are masters at efficiently using your living space. My wife and I stayed with a pair of friends from college in their similarly-sized Manhattan apartment some years ago, and it actually worked to have house guests. The one thing I wonder -- does that mean everyone in NYC has to be fairly tidy? It seems to me that small spaces can become cluttered faster than large ones (not necessarily filled up with ever more consumer junk, although that also happens, but just everyday stuff like the mail).

But why can I live this way? Obviously, there is plenty to do in New York City that makes staying at home unnecessary. In most of the country, this kind of lifestyle would be impossible. Portland I guess has something there - I've heard it's a great place but the unemployment rate there takes it off the table for a job.

Portland is a fun city, but it would be really stretching things to mention it in the same breath as NYC. That said, the unemployment rate doesn't necessarily apply to you... I mean, one typically lines up a job before moving to a new city. I think there are a lot of starving artists and musicians in Portland who come here for the culture (the self-described "young creatives" -- a rather self-important cognomen that makes my skin crawl); however, there are a fair number of jobs in business and technology in the area. (I don't live in Portland; I live in the much less hip suburbs close to the tech jobs.)

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: spotting anti-materialism

I love physical books but they do take a lot of space. Looking forward to when ebook readers reign - easier to buy, read, organize.

I have three 7-foot high bookcases, each about 3.25 feet wide. I routinely get rid of books, but it's mostly stuff that's heavily annotated that I'd like to have handy.

That said, I've recently started to heavily use these new "cloud computing" applications. Evernote is indispensable. I could easily see the day when some kind of dual-screen device like that new Toshiba libretto will allow easy note taking of ebook texts. At the moment however, none of it seems perfect... in time however, I'm sure it will work.

My lifestyle is more constrained by the apartment configuration - it's a railroad unit, basically 10x40. Using the interior space is not easy for anything other than playing catch.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: spotting anti-materialism

Wow. Mad props! You guys from NYC are masters at efficiently using your living space. My wife and I stayed with a pair of friends from college in their similarly-sized Manhattan apartment some years ago, and it actually worked to have house guests. The one thing I wonder -- does that mean everyone in NYC has to be fairly tidy? It seems to me that small spaces can become cluttered faster than large ones (not necessarily filled up with ever more consumer junk, although that also happens, but just everyday stuff like the mail).

Well, the benefit of not having much stuff is there isn't much stuff around. I suppose at times it's a challenge, particularly since I try to wear clothes at least twice to save on laundry bills. Pants are always draped over something. But you get used to it. And maybe spend more on bars than you probably should.

But for stuff like mail, I bring it all to my office, which is about 1/5 the size of my apartment. I have a document scanner where all my pertinent mail goes, which then goes into the aforementioned evernote account I mentioned in another post (and previously would go on DVDs). Paper then gets shredded. The only documents I keep are my birth certificate, social security card, passport, one checkbook in the event I have to write a check, and credit cards/library card, etc.

Portland is a fun city, but it would be really stretching things to mention it in the same breath as NYC. That said, the unemployment rate doesn't necessarily apply to you... I mean, one typically lines up a job before moving to a new city. I think there are a lot of starving artists and musicians in Portland who come here for the culture (the self-described "young creatives" -- a rather self-important cognomen that makes my skin crawl); however, there are a fair number of jobs in business and technology in the area. (I don't live in Portland; I live in the much less hip suburbs close to the tech jobs.)

Trust me, NYC is overrated. We have starving artists and musicians too, the problem is they all have trust funds.

Particularly this summer when it's been at least 90 pretty much every day, I've been fantasizing about leaving. It's a bit much, and really - I'm happy with a nice bar and cool people. Nice bars here are expensive, and most people are far from cool. I was hoping the ahole bankster class would die out with Lehman, but they are as wretched as ever. I guess Portland always seems like a fantastical place to me, if only due to the cycling - my primary form of transportation. It's not as bad as you'd think riding in Manhattan, at least in the winter when you don't sweat, but the taxis can drive you crazy.

Thanks for the tips on Portland!

[gugion]

Re: spotting anti-materialism

Hey Fred,

Any idea if/when Eric is going to give a speaking tour and/book signing anytime soon or once the book comes out? I'm preordered and ready to go!