Monkeys economically irrational just like us

[mooncliff]

Monkeys can be taught to use money.
Monkeys are economically irrational like us.
http://www.ted.com/talks/laurie_santos.html

Ariely, "Predictably Irrational" humans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictably_Irrational
http://www.ted.com/search?q=ariely&x=0&y=0

If this behavior is more than 35 million years old, and if it has been evolutionarily conserved for all that time, situations in which there was potential loss must have been much more common than situations in which there was potential gain. Being loss averse therefore increased probability of successful reproduction.

When you find food, it is much more likely that it will disappear over a few hours due to spoilage and it being taken by others than that more food will miraculously appear.

Human comedy, and tragedy, arise from applying a method to a situation in which the method does not work.

[oddlots]

Re: Monkeys economically irrational just like us

Ritholtz cited this as headline of the week:

---

Monkeys hate flying squirrels, report monkey-annoyance experts


I call a top in the career of "monkey-annoyance experts."

http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/201...oyance-experts

[mooncliff]

Re: Monkeys economically irrational just like us

I have never seen a flying squirrel in Japan.
Most humans in Tokyo scream when a crow swoops down on them or when a giant cicada flies into them.

[reggie]

Re: Monkeys economically irrational just like us

Another academic sell-out trying to convince us to be more "rational" and therefore less human (ie. 'bee-have-you-all' engineering). Daniel Goleman takes another approach, with the same end in mind. The onslaught continues.

What all these experts never mention is that the flip-side of this so-called irrationality, what I call humanity, is psychopathy, where all decisions are calculated, rational and devoid of human emotion. Is that really the direction we want to take society? Sounds horrific to me. But that doesn't stop them from masking this goal in every kinds of flavor of pseudo-science they can dream up.

What I want to know is how do they find so many highly intelligent shills willing to push the deception onto the public? "Thousands of Stars" (from 2010 A Space Odyssey) seems like a serious quantitative underestimate to me.

Here's all you need to know about the author to understand where his loyalties lie (i pulled this pic & quote from his website):

"Beehavioral economics is a complex
and serious profession requiring
focus and attention to details."

By the way, I realize I am an outlier here, especially with posts such as this one. But IMHO I believe that this forum can benefit from an outlier or two. Just don't bee too quick to dismiss perspectives such as this one, that's my wish.

[mooncliff]

Re: Monkeys economically irrational just like us

Hmm, did you actually read the book?
I have had all kinds of hilarious reactions, including one person who took one look at the title of the book and then went on for half an hour about how it was a lie... without having any knowledge of what the book actually says.
What Ariely does is present experimental evidence showing how we often make errors in choice in very consistent ways, and therefore can be manipulated. And it seems monkeys do the same.
Unless one has had a lot of science training, vicious empiricism is an alien mode of thought... that is precisely why it takes years of training, and most important, a relinquishing of ego and learning to be humble. Without that, one confuses what one wants with reality.
In the last five years, I have seen five people financially ruin themselves (like 60 years old, cancer, no pension, no savings, $400,000 in debt) precisely because they did obviously irrational things that I and everyone else told them not to do. The ones in the biggest trouble are the ones who said to me "We are NOT going to have a depression", "You really need to buy property ASAP", and "I have an MBA from Harvard and you don't know what you are talking about" (now unemployed for two years).
On the other hand, friends and family have made or saved $2,000,000 in the last three years simply by discussing things and getting over our emotional reactions. (Example: got my cousin to refinance her debt and shaved off $60,000 for an hour of my time and three hours of her time at the credit union.)
The whole point of looking at these kinds of experiments is that humans are not INTELLECTUALLY incapable of understanding many things, they are EMOTIONALLY incapable, without training, of understanding many things, and so often do the same thing over and over again that does not produce the desired result. That is Hell.

Investigations of economic decision making will not lead to us getting turned into robots and science destroying our humanity.

[reggie]

Re: Monkeys economically irrational just like us

.... humans are not INTELLECTUALLY incapable of understanding many things, they are EMOTIONALLY incapable, without training, of understanding many things....

This argument can be employed to support my earlier post, and therefore the same "irrationalities" can also apply to readers of this book.

So, while I agree about the front story being sold in this book that you aptly summarize, what I am also trying to say is that there is a flip side to this message. And I think that one needs to consider both messages.