Iran is SCREWED!!!!!!

[iyamwutiam]

Re: Iran is SCREWED!!!!!!

Fine -quibble if you wish -that there is a huge distinction between claiming that your vessel was sunk by an enemy mine and then using it as pretext for war and annexation (as the Maine) was steaming towards a Spanish colony. An incident happened -it was used (like 9/11) as a pretext to involve itself in an area -such as Iraq/Afghanistan - after all we are all aware that a terrorist group -by definition does not have a country!

Regardless -you love to blur the lines of rational thought. As a sovereign nations undergoing sanctions -the presence of a LOT of US warships will cause ANY nation to protect their sovereign water rights. That is quite different from provoking an act of war -as the British did when they claimed to be in international waters -when they were not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Ir...Navy_personnel

Anyway -I am quite sure that your mind is made up and so I would rather not do you the disservice of asking you to look at things differently. After all the entire context of being surrounded by US troops, the US sanctions, the support of a terrorist group that killed your Army personnel (http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...suicide_at.php) etc etc -is going to be reduced to -as you quaintly say in propaganda speak - Iran is Saber rattling.

That such a nation -feels their sovereignty threatened and that the US has with out equivocation called for 'regime' change -arrogant and sordid as ever -obviously should not be included as part of the landscape or context or even realm of thought.

Apparently steeping back and trying to look at the big picture fairly -is so not in vogue. Social invitations are and always will be plentiful when you just spout whatever nonsense mainstream enjoins you to propagate. Anywaaaaaaaay

[jtabeb]

Re: Iran is SCREWED!!!!!!

You get a free pass for that one cow. ;)

[D-Mack]

Re: Oh My God...Burma is working on an A Bomb!

In case you missed it, Iran was very, very close to provoking armed conflict during one of their more brazen saber rattling sessions.

Anyone noticed the $ sign decoration in the beginnig of the video?

Wasn't there a controvery about audio manipulation?

Official Version of Naval Incident Starts to Unravel


...

Central to the depiction of the incident as involving a threat to US warships is a mysterious pair of messages that the sailor who heard them onboard immediately interpreted as saying, "I am coming at you...," and "You will explode after a few minutes." But the voice in the audio clearly said "I am coming to you," and the second message was much less clear.
Furthermore, as the New York Times noted Thursday, the recording carries no ambient noise, such as the sounds of a motor, the sea or wind, which should have been audible if the broadcast had been made from one of the five small Iranian boats.
A veteran US naval officer who had served as a surface warfare officer aboard a US Navy destroyer in the Gulf sent a message to the New York Times on-line column "The Lede" Wednesday pointing out that in the Persian Gulf, the "bridge-to-bridge" radio channel used to communicate between ships "is like a bad CB radio" with many people using it for "hurling racial slurs" and "threats." The former officer wrote that his "first thought" was that the message "might not have even come from one of the Iranian craft."
Pentagon officials admitted to the Times that they could not rule out that the broadcast might have come from another source
The five Iran boats involved were hardly in a position to harm the three US warships. Although Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman described the Iranian boats as "highly maneuverable patrol craft" that were "visibly armed," he failed to note that these are tiny boats carrying only a two- or three-man crew and that they are normally armed only with machine guns that could do only surface damage to a US ship.
The only boat that was close enough to be visible to the US ships was unarmed, as an enlarged photo of the boat from the navy video clearly shows.


http://www.antiwar.com/porter/?articleid=12191

[Ghent12]

Re: Iran is SCREWED!!!!!!

That such a nation -feels their sovereignty threatened and that the US has with out equivocation called for 'regime' change -arrogant and sordid as ever -obviously should not be included as part of the landscape or context or even realm of thought.

Apparently steeping back and trying to look at the big picture fairly -is so not in vogue. Social invitations are and always will be plentiful when you just spout whatever nonsense mainstream enjoins you to propagate. Anywaaaaaaaay

You might have a point, except that Iran does literally engage in saber rattling. They provoke, in international waters, the US Navy--this cannot be denied. They do have covert affairs in their neighboring countries. If you cannot accept reality, which is that Iran really does do bad (and illegal) stuff from time to time, then that is your prerogative.

You seem to think that Iran only operates legally and carefully, but that is very obviously not the case. Harassing warships and trying to control an international constricted waterway does not fall under the category of legal and careful.

[Ghent12]

Re: Oh My God...Burma is working on an A Bomb!

Anyone noticed the $ sign decoration in the beginnig of the video?

Yes, I did notice the $ sign decoration in the beginning. Everyone was dressing up in green that day too. Wonder why...

Wasn't there a controvery about audio manipulation?

Okay, I don't want to insult you, but you need to be careful with the words you choose. Audio manipulation implies something that clearly was never present.

[iyamwutiam]

Re: Iran is SCREWED!!!!!!

You might have a point, except that Iran does literally engage in saber rattling. They provoke, in international waters, the US Navy--this cannot be denied. They do have covert affairs in their neighboring countries. If you cannot accept reality, which is that Iran really does do bad (and illegal) stuff from time to time, then that is your prerogative.

You seem to think that Iran only operates legally and carefully, but that is very obviously not the case. Harassing warships and trying to control an international constricted waterway does not fall under the category of legal and careful.

Apparently you think that in a Strait-definition: a narrow, navigable channel of water that connects two larger navigable bodies of water. Where the Us Navy has been camped out for years -along with its NATO minions -should not be alarming in the context that has already been explained.

You seem to (rather incredulously and myopically) assert that the only country in that region not occupied by US forces should feel rather comfortable with this ?!! You have the audacity to suggest an unarmed speedboat (your video) buzzing by many destroyers, cruisers is an obvious aggressive tactic -rather than interpreting it as a simple act of demarcating territory -for which there has been precedent -see the link regarding British sailors.

Either you have had much success in being obdurate and so can not 'change' this previous trait that had been a positive for you in some earlier times -- or you simply have jumped on the bandwagon of USA/USA/USA- or more disturbingly you tacitly endorse bullying, propaganda, colonial elitism and disregard for the concepts of law/fairness and most importantly objectivity.

You shall no doubt continue to entrench yourself with the braying retort of 'Iran is saber rattling' and purposely fail to look at the tremendous disparity between the two nations military capabilities, agendas and of course conduct. Well -I have one last definition for you:

One type of cognitive bias is confirmation bias, the tendency to interpret new information in such a way that confirms one's prior beliefs, even to the extreme of denial, ignoring information that conflicts with one's prior beliefs.

This is seen often when Asians/ American Indians/ African-Americans/Indigenous and of course Iranians -would look at the event of say the Holocaust -and say WTF!! Have not other populaces been subject to extreme genocide for decades -if not centuries. All of a sudden -it is these groups who are seen as Anti-Semitic and barbaric. I am so covered in this excrement encrusted irony that I feel the need to take several shower a day. But in my view the analogy is suitable.

The death , despair, extermination of others is conveniently seen as the past -yet- some how (in a perverse sense of disconnect) -the crusades and holocaust live forever. Whatever bro. History no matter how edited and perverse is not just a collection of rubber stamped view points endorsed by sycophantic hacks which inundate the population with distortions. There still survives the seeds of alternate perspectives and analysis. I have realized some time ago -that other than inveigling upon some to re-examine their premises and perhaps enjoining them to be critical about their own conscious/subconscious bias-- I can do no more.

So with that -I bid you good day sir.

[D-Mack]

Re: Oh My God...Burma is working on an A Bomb!

Yes, I did notice the $ sign decoration in the beginning. Everyone was dressing up in green that day too. Wonder why...


Okay, I don't want to insult you, but you need to be careful with the words you choose. Audio manipulation implies something that clearly was never present.

And I thought they were dressed in blue uniforms.

Was the audio genuine, where did it come from ? I don't know what happened

It was not until Thursday, after the Pentagon and Iran had each released videos of the encounter, that the US acknowledged the verbal threats they had associated with the Iranian speedboats from day one could have been broadcast from virtually anywhere.
"I am coming to you .... You will explode after a few minutes," a voice says on the audio recording but Farsi speakers and Iranians have said the voice did not sound Iranian.
Aftergood said he was surprised at the uncertainty regarding the origin of that message, which was broadcast on a public communication channel and superimposed onto the end of the Pentagon video.


http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Ec...rted_0111.html

[bobola]

Re: Oh My God...Burma is working on an A Bomb!

Odd damage to the ship.
Definitely not from a careless crew member.
St. Elmo's fire...???

[Ghent12]

Re: Iran is SCREWED!!!!!!

You seem to (rather incredulously and myopically) assert that the only country in that region not occupied by US forces should feel rather comfortable with this ?!! You have the audacity to suggest an unarmed speedboat (your video) buzzing by many destroyers, cruisers is an obvious aggressive tactic -rather than interpreting it as a simple act of demarcating territory -for which there has been precedent -see the link regarding British sailors.

Either you have had much success in being obdurate and so can not 'change' this previous trait that had been a positive for you in some earlier times -- or you simply have jumped on the bandwagon of USA/USA/USA- or more disturbingly you tacitly endorse bullying, propaganda, colonial elitism and disregard for the concepts of law/fairness and most importantly objectivity.

You shall no doubt continue to entrench yourself with the braying retort of 'Iran is saber rattling' and purposely fail to look at the tremendous disparity between the two nations military capabilities, agendas and of course conduct. Well -I have one last definition for you:

One type of cognitive bias is confirmation bias, the tendency to interpret new information in such a way that confirms one's prior beliefs, even to the extreme of denial, ignoring information that conflicts with one's prior beliefs.

I have not stated that Iran should feel comfortable with US forces nearby. I have merely asserted an incontrovertible fact: harassing US warships in international waters is bad, and a persistent indication of Iran's strategy. Iran does not own the Straights of Hormuz, yet their speedboats have been documented harassing coalition warships passing through.

Yes, I do have the "audacity" to claim that an "unarmed speedboat" buzzing a Destroyer, Cruiser, and Frigate is an aggressive harassment tactic, rather than interpreting it as a simple act of demarcating territory. There is no basis in fact or reality to suggest that the area transited by the ships in the video was anywhere else but inside the Strait. The coalition warships were obeying all applicable international laws, while the Iranian speedboats were engaged in aggressive, harassing swarm tactics. They even dropped (presumably empty) white boxes in the water ahead of the ships in a naked attempt to disrupt the convoy. It is not audacious at all to describe what really happened in the manner that it actually happened in. It is you that is exhibiting "confirmation bias" by even suggesting that Iran was engaged in demarcating territory on that instance.

The disparity between military capabilities is irrelevant to the facts as they occur. If Iran had only one speedboat in the whole of its military and paramilitary forces, but used it aggressively and illegally to harass ships transiting the Strait, then Iran is still guilty of provocative and illegal behavior. Now please stop trying to attribute things to me and others just because I am speaking merely the truth of the instances which occur. I understand you have some deep need for posting outright deceit and taking a vehemently anti-mainstream position on everything, as evidenced by you calling the USS Maine a false flag attack, but I would encourage your discussions on topics on this forum to remain within the realm of reality. In this realm of reality, Iran does act provocatively.

[Ghent12]

Re: Oh My God...Burma is working on an A Bomb!

Was the audio genuine, where did it come from ? I don't know what happened

Yes, all the audio was genuine and no "faked" audio or manipulated soundtrack was released. The sources of the parts of audio that seem 'questionable' was very likely the Filipino Monkey, which you will have to Google.

You can say two things about the incident in question: it wasn't as bad as it seemed (via the radio transmissions received), and it wasn't innocent on the part of the Iranian speedboats either.