Gov't Wants Your Obesity Rating by 2014

[WildspitzE]

Re: Gov't Wants Your Obesity Rating by 2014

the emr appeals for our desire for a techno-fix, as well as providing business for various venders [which? whom did they off?]. much easier to focus on that than ending the subsidies for corn.

for sure, it's major part of why the cognitive dissonance is perpetuated.

subsidized agri business -> hormonal imbalances (e.g. insulin) and metabolic issues -> prescribe meds -> rinse, lather, repeat.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Gov't Wants Your Obesity Rating by 2014

Hey TPC, not sure that your examples are perfect because, among other things, in such situations you have a choice. Meaning, you could change insurance companies; perhaps to one that (i) doesn't insure people with no helmets (for example), or (ii) based on your analysis / assessment has enough capital to cover the helmet-less organ donors' expenses / liabilities it insures. Under a socialized welfare scheme, my "premiums" will be taken from me (to cover expenses) whether I like it or not at the point of a gun.

The matter of choice is important, yes.

Though from what I can tell, there is less choice in these insurance examples than it would seem at first glance.

For example, motorcycle helmet laws vary by state and apply to all. I can imagine being in a state with out a helmet law and deciding it was in my best interest to vote for such a law. I don't ride a motorcycle myself, so only the cost of insurance directly affects me. I might figure that with a motorcycle helmet law, the cost to cycle insurance companies (which are pretty much the same as the auto insurance companies) would be lower, thus saving a little on my auto insurance policy (all else being equal.) Further, if it's not insurance paying for the brain damaged cyclist's medical costs, it's often socialized medicine or an emergency room or other shared means. Only if we lived in a (harsh, by our expectations) society where any injured cyclist likely died or became disabled if they or their family couldn't pay for medical care would it not matter to my (narrow minded) financial interests whether others wore helmets.

In short, helmet laws, auto insurance requirements, legal liability and mandated emergency medical care are per jurisdiction, not per insurance company, so there is not a clear divide between what is choice (unless I move) and what affects all by mandate (and gun.)

[shiny!]

Re: Gov't Wants Your Obesity Rating by 2014

[and btw, the tsh is quite a useful test. not perfect, but what is?]

Not to take away from the larger issue here, but the TSH misses a lot of people, mostly women, who have subclinical hypothyroidism and /or T3 Resistance. The thyroid can produce plenty of T4, but T4 has to be converted into T3 in order to be absorbed and utilized inside the cells. Certain illnesses, heavy metal poisoning and other conditions can prevent the conversion and absorption of sufficient T3 in the cells. Thus, the TSH test can show "normal" levels of thyroid hormone (T4) produced by the thyroid, yet the cells can be starving for T3. Most doctors ONLY go by the TSH and if it falls within the "normal range", they won't test further. A woman can have every hypothyroid symptom in the book, and if her TSH is "normal", the doctor simply won't believe she has a thyroid problem.

Some enlightened thyroid doctors believe the TSH test should be abandoned. They believe the TSH test's "normal range" is still too high (lower number means more thyroid hormone is present) and it misses millions of people who actually need thyroid supplementation. Before the TSH test was invented, doctors prescribed thyroid supplement according to the symptoms the patient presented. They would start with a small amount, and if there was some improvement, they would gradually increase the dosage until the symptoms resolved. They also used natural thyroid hormone containing both T4 and T3. Now they only go by the numbers, not the symptoms. Most doctors don't even know how to interpret more sophisticated tests that measure T3 and all the thyroid hormone ratios, and insurance doesn't want to pay for it. The drug companies have pushed T4-only meds like Synthroid, so this is what most doctors prescribe. But most women, especially those with T3 resistance, do dramatically better if they are given both T4 and T3 rather than T4 alone.

People with subclinical hypothyroidism suffer a host of illnesses such as high cholesterol and heart disease, depression/anxiety disorders, fatigue and obesity. These hypothyroid symptoms are treated piecemeal with unnecessary drugs and condescending advice to "eat less and exercise more." It's medical malpractice on a grand scale.

And for the cherry on top: Soybeans, which are heavily subsidized, touted as a health food, especially for women, and in just about everything we eat nowadays, are thyroid suppressive!

[Penguin]

Re: Gov't Wants Your Obesity Rating by 2014

The problem I have with BMI is that it misses an entire group of health conscious adults and incorrectly characterizes them as obese when they are anything but. I am one of them. I run 3 or 4 times a week, cross train on the others, and have at least one hard resistance training session a week. I am in very good shape and work hard to stay that way.

According to BMI I am obese. My body fat percentage is under 15% and stays there... and I am obese? A health risk? A burden on those in my health care package?

Fact is there are many ways to get a much more accurate picture of fitness and health and they aren't that hard to accomplish. BMI is for the lazy and incompetent. I don't know anyone serious about fitness that pays one bit of attention to it.

Will

[jk]

Re: Gov't Wants Your Obesity Rating by 2014

Not to take away from the larger issue here, but the TSH misses a lot of people, mostly women, who have subclinical hypothyroidism and /or T3 Resistance. The thyroid can produce plenty of T4, but T4 has to be converted into T3 in order to be absorbed and utilized inside the cells. Certain illnesses, heavy metal poisoning and other conditions can prevent the conversion and absorption of sufficient T3 in the cells. Thus, the TSH test can show "normal" levels of thyroid hormone (T4) produced by the thyroid, yet the cells can be starving for T3. Most doctors ONLY go by the TSH and if it falls within the "normal range", they won't test further. A woman can have every hypothyroid symptom in the book, and if her TSH is "normal", the doctor simply won't believe she has a thyroid problem.

Some enlightened thyroid doctors believe the TSH test should be abandoned. They believe the TSH test's "normal range" is still too high (lower number means more thyroid hormone is present) and it misses millions of people who actually need thyroid supplementation. Before the TSH test was invented, doctors prescribed thyroid supplement according to the symptoms the patient presented. They would start with a small amount, and if there was some improvement, they would gradually increase the dosage until the symptoms resolved. They also used natural thyroid hormone containing both T4 and T3. Now they only go by the numbers, not the symptoms. Most doctors don't even know how to interpret more sophisticated tests that measure T3 and all the thyroid hormone ratios, and insurance doesn't want to pay for it. The drug companies have pushed T4-only meds like Synthroid, so this is what most doctors prescribe. But most women, especially those with T3 resistance, do dramatically better if they are given both T4 and T3 rather than T4 alone.

People with subclinical hypothyroidism suffer a host of illnesses such as high cholesterol and heart disease, depression/anxiety disorders, fatigue and obesity. These hypothyroid symptoms are treated piecemeal with unnecessary drugs and condescending advice to "eat less and exercise more." It's medical malpractice on a grand scale.

And for the cherry on top: Soybeans, which are heavily subsidized, touted as a health food, especially for women, and in just about everything we eat nowadays, are thyroid suppressive!

it's important to know with any test that the "normal" is defined as a statistical range, and being "normal" does not mean optimal for the individual. i am often prescribing thyroid hormone to people with "normal" tsh readings. otoh, when i discovered a patient had a tsh of 48 there was no debate over whether that was ABnormal.

[swgprop]

Re: Gov't Wants Your Obesity Rating by 2014

Fact is there are many ways to get a much more accurate picture of fitness and health and they aren't that hard to accomplish. BMI is for the lazy and incompetent. I don't know anyone serious about fitness that pays one bit of attention to it.
Will

My sentiments (and situation) exactly. I'm concerned about getting categorized by a flawed measurement which could result in financial impact such as insurance costs.

All due respect JK but "i suppose you've got to start somewhere" doesn't fly in my book, that's the same approach that gave us the dysfunctional Obamacare and Finreg bills. "Just do something, even if it's wrong" is not a viable framework.

[Ghent12]

Re: Gov't Wants Your Obesity Rating by 2014

The problem I have with BMI is that it misses an entire group of health conscious adults and incorrectly characterizes them as obese when they are anything but. I am one of them. I run 3 or 4 times a week, cross train on the others, and have at least one hard resistance training session a week. I am in very good shape and work hard to stay that way.

According to BMI I am obese. My body fat percentage is under 15% and stays there... and I am obese? A health risk? A burden on those in my health care package?

Fact is there are many ways to get a much more accurate picture of fitness and health and they aren't that hard to accomplish. BMI is for the lazy and incompetent. I don't know anyone serious about fitness that pays one bit of attention to it.

Will

Yes, BMI is fatally flawed. Any person with a muscular build can be considered obese. Although I won't claim that America does not have an obesity problem, I will say with confidence that it is overdiagnosed.

[jk]

Re: Gov't Wants Your Obesity Rating by 2014

Yes, BMI is fatally flawed. Any person with a muscular build can be considered obese. Although I won't claim that America does not have an obesity problem, I will say with confidence that it is overdiagnosed.

it is overdiagnosed by bmi. but it is also underdiagnosed by bmi. there are those who are not overweight by calculation, who nonetheless exhibit -especially- abdominal obesity. they have low muscle mass and relatively high body fat. so bmi is far from perfect. but it is no more or less "fatally flawed" than any other index. problems arise when people use numbers and tests without an understanding of the derivation of those numbers, but instead reify the index as if it were a concrete manifestation of some underlying reality.

[Spartacus]

Re: Gov't Wants Your Obesity Rating by 2014

Should this go in Rant and Rave?

http://www.huliq.com/10017/governmen...ty-rating-2014


At best, I'm guessing they intend to use this data to impose punitive taxes on fat people. When I put on my tinfoil hat, I envison starvation labor "re-education" camps.

hehehhehe ...

FTC (wonderful agency, as far as I know) maintains that there's no method of losing weight permanently, that 95% of ALL diets fail, and FTC has successfully prosecuted companies and people that advertise otherwise.

And you expect that IRS will begin charging people for overweight.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Gov't Wants Your Obesity Rating by 2014

the moment you make me pay to feed someone else's kids, I want to mandate that they get sterilized so they don't produce any more mouths that they can't feed themselves;

Clearly, you are not a Christian.

[Penguin]

Re: Gov't Wants Your Obesity Rating by 2014

I will agree that most diets fail over a 5 or 10 years span. And I will also grant you that the best way in life is to never get fat in the first place. Those assertions are pretty well accepted within the medical and fitness PWT.

BUT successful fat loss and fitness gains are pretty well understood. The successful route is well known and not that difficult to understand. The trouble is that once you are way out of shape the path to fitness is long. It takes patience. It takes commitment. And in the long term requires a complete lifestyle change. The amount of calorie deficit that must be run and the length of time it must be maintained can be daunting. It can seem hopeless. A short time fix followed by a relapse to old eating habits will put you deeper in the hole than when you started.

Watching America grapple with its weight problem is, to me anyway, similar to watching us grapple with our debt problem. In both cases the problem arose from an unhealthy lifestyle over many years. Neither problem can be cured without sacrifice and discipline. Both cures are gonna hurt... and we waste time searching for simple cures and someone to scapegoat when we should be strapping on our running shoes for some exercise or putting on our kitchen aprons to cook some nutritious meals. It is sad.

I try to encourage everyone I come in contact with who is trying to get in shape and live a more energetic life. I admire those who are tackling the problem head on and putting in sweat equity. Reaffirms my believe in second chances and the ability of the human race to successfully improve themselves. I am an optimist.

Will