Private Sector vs. Government Wages

[Munger]

http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/wp-content/...comparison.png

[we_are_toast]

Re: Private Sector vs. Government Wages

Sorry, but these numbers don't look realistic at all. I worked for the government for many years and have known many people who work for the government and the base salaries look way too high.

That being said, I do believe government workers, with benefits, get payed better than the private sector, and that needs to be corrected. Since government workers get payed with money that comes from private individuals, I would very much like to see government pay linked to the median income of workers in the country. Adjustments, up and down, could be made every couple of years.

But lest we get carried away; from your figures, if we eliminated ALL the FED workers, we would reduce deficits by about 20%, so clearly government pay needs to be corrected, but it is a distraction from the real problems we face.

[ddn3f]

Re: Private Sector vs. Government Wages

I do agree that Federal Workers are overpaid. In my agency in the DC area, if you come out of school with an engineering degree and you put in 3 years, you make a GS13. That comes out to about $89K in 2010. That is very good pay and it is probably the best job in town. But then again, the contractors make more than the government workers...at least my support contractor who is only a year older than myself definitely makes more than I do.

On another note, with the recent demise of NSPS (pay for performance), there are many GS14s in Payband 3 (GS 14/15 pay band) that are getting paid above their GS14 payscale. So when the switch goes from paybanding to GS, those GS14s will probably be on pay retention. That means they only get 1/2 raises until the scale catches up to them.

I realize I live in the DC area and the pay and positions are heavily-weighted to the higher levels. The government workers get paid well, but it seems that the contractors get paid even better.

[Munger]

Re: Private Sector vs. Government Wages

I agree that it is a distraction for purposes of deficit, and I am not knee-jerk anti-government. But I do believe it is when pay, benefits, hours and skill are factored in, government workers are better compensated.

My frustration is that government work should not be more lucrative than private sector, which _pays_ for the government sector. The time off, pensions, and work-ethic of government workers is frustrating to anyone in the private sector, and causes a lot of people to flee into the comfort and leisure of the government.

I know a few people who retired in their 50s from medium-level government work with a pension in the low 6 figures, who then started working for the private sector doing defense contracting for the government making similar wages (mostly due to their connections to the government). If they had started and stayed in the private sector, they would be making high 5 figures with a 401(k) worth much less than their 6 figure pension.

[Chomsky]

Re: Private Sector vs. Government Wages

I agree that it is a distraction for purposes of deficit, and I am not knee-jerk anti-government. But I do believe it is when pay, benefits, hours and skill are factored in, government workers are better compensated.

My frustration is that government work should not be more lucrative than private sector, which _pays_ for the government sector. The time off, pensions, and work-ethic of government workers is frustrating to anyone in the private sector, and causes a lot of people to flee into the comfort and leisure of the government.

I know a few people who retired in their 50s from medium-level government work with a pension in the low 6 figures, who then started working for the private sector doing defense contracting for the government making similar wages (mostly due to their connections to the government). If they had started and stayed in the private sector, they would be making high 5 figures with a 401(k) worth much less than their 6 figure pension.

Do government workers flip burgers and serve french fries, or work security details at shopping malls, or sell shoes at Foot Locker? All the non-skilled labor jobs must skew the private sector's average wages way, way down.

[Kcim67]

Re: Private Sector vs. Government Wages

I agree that it is a distraction for purposes of deficit, and I am not knee-jerk anti-government. But I do believe it is when pay, benefits, hours and skill are factored in, government workers are better compensated.

My frustration is that government work should not be more lucrative than private sector, which _pays_ for the government sector. The time off, pensions, and work-ethic of government workers is frustrating to anyone in the private sector, and causes a lot of people to flee into the comfort and leisure of the government.

I know a few people who retired in their 50s from medium-level government work with a pension in the low 6 figures, who then started working for the private sector doing defense contracting for the government making similar wages (mostly due to their connections to the government). If they had started and stayed in the private sector, they would be making high 5 figures with a 401(k) worth much less than their 6 figure pension.

This is known as gaming the system and is the modus operandi of any individual with any inkling of a clue of how the system works. The private sectors whole ethos is to avoid paying a fair wage at home, usually as part of the vertical supply chain where they have already outsourced mummy and daddies better paid jobs overseas where exploit other poor souls. What about this so called democracy, when the private sector games the system to well in its favour then the electorate votes in an administration (socialist usually) to create them more jobs or (fascist) in the past when they robbed their neighbours.
Therefore the number of government jobs that exist in the system is a reflection of the quality of other jobs being created and the general need of the not so dumb as you would like to believe electorate who then elect an administration they think will give them what they require. The media the ruling classes the oligarchy are always attempting to game the system in their favour but in a democracy the people do have a little power. I would go as far as to suggest that this is an acknowledged fact in many quarters and the real irony is that the game is to prevent the electorate finding out just how much power they truly have.

[Dave Stratman]

Re: Private Sector vs. Government Wages

"Do government workers flip burgers and serve french fries, or work security details at shopping malls, or sell shoes at Foot Locker? All the non-skilled labor jobs must skew the private sector's average wages way, way down." Good point.

The ruling class has spent four decades driving down the wages and living standards of private-sector workers by shipping or threatening to ship their jobs overseas, automating the skills out of jobs to cheapen them, replacing manufacturing work with poorly paid service jobs, etc. Now the ruling class is orchestrating a campaign to drive down the wages and living standards of government employees, divide the working class between public an private sectors, and divert attention from the bloodsuckers on Wall Street and in the corporatocracy. How could anyone fall for this scam? The answer is to restore the jobs and wages and living standards that private sector workers have lost. We should be leveling up, not down. Worried about taxes and the deficit? Claw back the $23 trillion from the banks.

[don]

Re: Private Sector vs. Government Wages

I was a government employee for 5 years when I served my electrical apprenticeship at a naval shipyard (boomers and fast attack overhauls). Our pay, both apprentices and journeymen, was about 80% that of union workers. We rationalized the difference in that we remained employed throughout the year, unlike many IBEW and non-union electricians. Vacation time and sick leave were good, especially after 4-years time served. Health benefits were okay but health had yet to be captured by FIRE.

[chr5648]

Re: Private Sector vs. Government Wages

I was a government employee for 5 years when I served my electrical apprenticeship at a naval shipyard (boomers and fast attack overhauls). Our pay, both apprentices and journeymen, was about 80% that of union workers. We rationalized the difference in that we remained employed throughout the year, unlike many IBEW and non-union electricians. Vacation time and sick leave were good, especially after 4-years time served. Health benefits were okay but health had yet to be captured by FIRE.

Was getting an apprenticeship difficult in those times? How is it nowadays with the apprenticeships, are they hard to get? The system the same?

[jtabeb]

Re: Private Sector vs. Government Wages

B-i-n-g-o!