The Joy of Outsourcing...

[GRG55]

...and the difficulties of maintaining Quality Control [QC].

For Boeing "QC" has become short for Quite Costly...another nail in the "globalization" coffin [?]...

Boeing Says 787s May Need New Tail Parts After Inspections

Jun 25, 2010

Boeing Co., more than two years behind schedule in delivering the 787 Dreamliner, said it will inspect 23 aircraft after discovering that tail parts on some planes had been improperly installed.

Boeing recently identified a “workmanship issue” with the 787’s horizontal stabilizers, the Chicago-based airplane maker said in a statement yesterday. The stabilizers, which are part of the tail section of the plane, are used to keep the aircraft level during flight.

It may take as long as eight days per plane to replace any defective parts found during inspections, the world’s second- largest commercial airplane maker said. The inspections won’t affect the delivery timetable, which has already been slowed by parts shortages, redesign work and a new manufacturing process that relies more on suppliers.

“Some airplanes have issues with improperly installed shims and the torque of associated fasteners,” Boeing said in the statement. The company is inspecting the 23 airplanes that have been fitted with parts that were made by Finmeccanica SpA’s unit Alenia Aeronautica, Boeing spokesman Jim Proulx said in a phone interview.

“It’s a supplier issue,” he said. He could not say how many of the 23 planes may need fixes...

[jk]

Re: The Joy of Outsourcing...

their problem is that if they don't outsource the jobs, they don't make the foreign sales.

[chr5648]

Re: The Joy of Outsourcing...

When Americans build something, its built right and it lasts. My dad just had his Craftsman rachet wrench break last month after about 15+ years of use, its a quality piece of equipment, he got a free lifetime replacement. I love american made, quality and it lasts, too bad theres very little of it left.

The problem is that when you build quality products, they rarely break and revenue from new products is not made. With chinese crap, you can buy some piece of crap cheap rachet wrench ever week.

[touchring]

Re: The Joy of Outsourcing...

When Americans build something, its built right and it lasts. My dad just had his Craftsman rachet wrench break last month after about 15+ years of use, its a quality piece of equipment, he got a free lifetime replacement. I love american made, quality and it lasts, too bad theres very little of it left.

The problem is that when you build quality products, they rarely break and revenue from new products is not made. With chinese crap, you can buy some piece of crap cheap rachet wrench ever week.

This is how the retailers and distributors make money, from replacements and repairs.

And besides, crap generates jobs for the repair industry, couriers (to send replacements), garbage collector (to dispose the broken crap), contractors (to rip out crap that is installed in houses, like the Chinese drywalls - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36150863/), retail, recycling, among other service jobs. And if you purchase crap on credit, you help generate jobs for the financial industry.

The American economy is sustained by crap.

But there's a downside, pollution. Americans fret on a leaking pipe in the Gulf, but do you know how much pollution is released into the rivers and air in the making of crap? All these stuff eventually flow into the oceans and atmosphere, creating extreme weather conditions that can wreck damages a thousand times more than a leaking pipe.














http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/...tion-in-china/

[flintlock]

Re: The Joy of Outsourcing...

We would get more quality made products if Americans( and the ROTW) were willing to pay for them. People want things cheap, cheap, cheap these days. People are very ignorant about quality differences. They think they can have their cake and eat it too. Something is wrong when you can buy a socket set for $6. Or a light fixture for $5.

[don]

Re: The Joy of Outsourcing...

A Chinese Factory Outsources Worker Dorms By DAVID BARBOZA

SHANGHAI — Under intense scrutiny after several suicides at its factories in southern China this year, Foxconn Technology, a major supplier to Apple, Dell and Hewlett-Packard, has decided to stop operating its own dormitories for workers.

On Friday, the company said that it was essentially outsourcing its living arrangements to two Chinese real estate companies. The firms will take over the operations of 153 dormitories that house half of its 420,000 workers in Shenzhen.

The decision is the first time one of China’s biggest exporters has pledged to abandon what most manufacturers say is an integral part of China’s factory model — a system that depends on housing migrant workers near factories that specialize in low-cost, around-the-clock assembly line operations.



http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/26/te...l?ref=business

[Beavus]

Re: The Joy of Outsourcing...

When Americans build something, its built right and it lasts. My dad just had his Craftsman rachet wrench break last month after about 15+ years of use, its a quality piece of equipment, he got a free lifetime replacement. I love american made, quality and it lasts, too bad theres very little of it left.

The problem is that when you build quality products, they rarely break and revenue from new products is not made. With chinese crap, you can buy some piece of crap cheap rachet wrench ever week.

I love America, but to believe everything mad in America is a quality product... Ratchet going bad after 15 years is a quality ratchet?

A quality product is built to fail at a pre-determind date/hours or useage. Then Aftermarket departments of companies make LOTS of money off the customer again. That is reality of American Company. Quality profits from failed products at predefined dates.

[chr5648]

Re: The Joy of Outsourcing...

I love America, but to believe everything mad in America is a quality product... Ratchet going bad after 15 years is a quality ratchet?

If you used it extensively as my father did, then yes, it was a pretty good quality product.

A quality product is built to fail at a pre-determind date/hours or useage. Then Aftermarket departments of companies make LOTS of money off the customer again. That is reality of American Company. Quality profits from failed products at predefined dates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence times have changed, now its fundamental business procedure.

[shiny!]

Re: The Joy of Outsourcing...

My 25 year old refrigerator is leaking cold air around the seals. I wasted an entire day researching on the internet for a good quality freezer-on-bottom refrigerator, thinking a new one would save me money on energy costs. They don't exist. All refrigerators are made in China now and they all suck- even the expensive ones. The good ones merely break down short order, or the plastic crumbles to bits. The bad ones CATCH ON FIRE:

http://www.epinions.com/content_5335785604

Decided to keep the old one until it breaks.

[cjppjc]

Re: The Joy of Outsourcing...

My 25 year old refrigerator is leaking cold air around the seals. I wasted an entire day researching on the internet for a good quality freezer-on-bottom refrigerator, thinking a new one would save me money on energy costs. They don't exist. All refrigerators are made in China now and they all suck- even the expensive ones. The good ones merely break down short order, or the plastic crumbles to bits. The bad ones CATCH ON FIRE:

http://www.epinions.com/content_5335785604

Decided to keep the old one until it breaks.

No doubt about it. New "durable goods" are not as durable. Except maybe cars. Appliances, snow blowers, lawn mowers, they just don't last as long as they used to.

[c1ue]

Re: The Joy of Outsourcing...

We would get more quality made products if Americans( and the ROTW) were willing to pay for them. People want things cheap, cheap, cheap these days. People are very ignorant about quality differences. They think they can have their cake and eat it too. Something is wrong when you can buy a socket set for $6. Or a light fixture for $5.

Paying more doesn't necessarily mean a better product.

What's the difference between Vaseline and most common brands of lipstick?

About 5 cents in coloring, and millions in magazine ads and endorsements.

More specifically to your example: if I made a socket wrench that was only good for 5 years but was 20% cheaper - it'd take 10 years or more before the failures became well known.

In the meantime how could you tell? Especially if I was a supplier to a well known and older brand company?

Long before that time I could change the manufacturing company's name and rebrand.

This is what can happen when you separate business and ethics.

[touchring]

Re: The Joy of Outsourcing...

Paying more doesn't necessarily mean a better product.

What's the difference between Vaseline and most common brands of lipstick?

About 5 cents in coloring, and millions in magazine ads and endorsements.

More specifically to your example: if I made a socket wrench that was only good for 5 years but was 20% cheaper - it'd take 10 years or more before the failures became well known.

In the meantime how could you tell? Especially if I was a supplier to a well known and older brand company?

Long before that time I could change the manufacturing company's name and rebrand.

This is what can happen when you separate business and ethics.

Pay peanuts, get peanuts, this is the general rule when it comes to buying appliances.

I bought a $500 Atom based COMPAQ mini PC to serve as my file server a few months back, which shuts down by itself after 2 or 3 days of use. The local COMPAQ or HP appointed repairman came over and did a series of tests, couldn't find any issues, and mentioned tongue in cheek that I can't expect to run a $500 PC for more than a few hours!

I didn't believe that, did my own research, found out that the motherboard was a Foxconn brand - that was the first time I heard about Foxconn. After days of Googling, I came to suspect that overheating might have caused the sudden shutdown, so I decided to open up the chasis. To my surprise, there was no CPU fan inside!! I went to a computer shop, paid $5 for a small fan and $25 for a SCSI to IDE converter so that the fan can connect to the SCSI cable. I suspect if Foxconn added a small fan to the CPU, it wouldn't add more than $2 to the BOM. After adding the fan, my PC has never stopped working since.

Why didn't Foxconn add a fan if there is a chance of overheating? Was it done intentionally? If the CPU broke down after the 1 year warranty period, I would have to replace the CPU and incur hefty repair charges.

[flintlock]

Re: The Joy of Outsourcing...

Paying more doesn't necessarily mean a better product.

What's the difference between Vaseline and most common brands of lipstick?

About 5 cents in coloring, and millions in magazine ads and endorsements.

More specifically to your example: if I made a socket wrench that was only good for 5 years but was 20% cheaper - it'd take 10 years or more before the failures became well known.

In the meantime how could you tell? Especially if I was a supplier to a well known and older brand company?

Long before that time I could change the manufacturing company's name and rebrand.

This is what can happen when you separate business and ethics.

I agree. Paying more doesn't guarantee a better product. But not paying enough almost certainly guarantees a bad one.

To a degree, suppliers are merely giving people what they want. Cheaper goods. I find many people today lack the ability to discern the differences in quality even when readily apparent. But your example of a 5 year socket wrench is a good one. And in many cases, people make the choice to buy two or three of the lower quality wrenches rather than invest in the better quality wrench they may lose.

The example of the atom chipped computer touchring gave is an even better example. Tiny amounts are saved by scrimping on parts. That is what really burns me up. Where people, if made aware, would gladly pay a few extra bucks to get better quality. Only they are not made aware, and there is no chance of detecting a quality difference by feel, like with a wrench.

I really does go back to ethics and accountability. Manufacturing is outsourced to numerous small factories in China with little or no regard to long term reputation. We live in a short term world today. The executive who knowingly builds an inferior product knows he will probably be working somewhere else before his failings are recognized.

A lot of this stuff hits home for me in my business. Electrical parts are crap today. Just pure junk. Most places don't even offer a quality option. It's a choice between crap and even worse crap. Has anyone else noticed how brittle and weak metal and plastic parts are today?

[flintlock]

Re: The Joy of Outsourcing...

I just picked up one of those Freezer on the bottom style refrigerators. Love it. Really cool design. Got a $2600 Kitchenaid for $750 because Lowe's listed it incorrectly on their website and they honored the price. Then they scratched the door on delivery and gave us another $150 off. Throw in energy and other rebates and our net cost was about $450! Let's hope it is better than the piece of crap Frigidaire I had before. All the plastic door bins broke within a few years. The icemaker broke twice, and Ice comes out either crushed or cube, the machines choice not yours. Sold it for $200 and glad to be rid of it after only 7 years.

[GRG55]

Re: The Joy of Outsourcing...

I just picked up one of those Freezer on the bottom style refrigerators. Love it. Really cool design. Got a $2600 Kitchenaid for $750 because Lowe's listed it incorrectly on their website and they honored the price. Then they scratched the door on delivery and gave us another $150 off. Throw in energy and other rebates and our net cost was about $450! Let's hope it is better than the piece of crap Frigidaire I had before. All the plastic door bins broke within a few years. The icemaker broke twice, and Ice comes out either crushed or cube, the machines choice not yours. Sold it for $200 and glad to be rid of it after only 7 years.

From what I can discern looking at refrigerators they all seem to be made by the same factory and just have different nameplates and slightly different plastic interiors. I am not sure you'll find much difference between them as I am guessing that there's been a consolidation of the manufacturing capacity during the past couple of recessions so there's only one or two companies in the USA that make all of them on contract to every brand including Kenmore, Amana, Maytag, Frigidaire etc. The high end stuff [mostly ranges and cooktops] seems to be over-complicated and under-engineered, often with specialized membrane touch control boards that look like they are just begging to fail and after a few years can't be replaced... My wife had to look for a long time to find a gas cooktop for the bunker with high-Btu burners, manual gas valves and a simple ignition system.

...A lot of this stuff hits home for me in my business. Electrical parts are crap today. Just pure junk. Most places don't even offer a quality option. It's a choice between crap and even worse crap. Has anyone else noticed how brittle and weak metal and plastic parts are today?

As I have posted before I have studiously tried to avoid any Chinese content in the construction of the bunker. I have found it near impossible to do so with electrical components. A few months ago I finished wiring the bunker Ag Centre. The first box of 10 SPST switches that I opened from my wholesale supplier contained three broken switches. I broke the plastic on the first two that I tried to install...I have been messing with wires since I was a kid and there is no way that I overtorqued the screw connections. Yep, Chinese made crap. I had a similar experience with a 20A GFCI outlet - broke one of the screws itself with virtually no effort. The plastic and the metal is complete garbage. After some hunting around I found a supplier up here that still has stock of USA made Leviton components...but even they don't seem to be as good as the stuff I used in my last project in the 1990s.