Mexican Drug Cartels Now Control Swath of Arizon From Mexican Border North to Phoenix

[shiny!]

Re: Mexican Drug Cartels Now Control Swath of Arizon From Mexican Border North to Phoenix

And Mexico's problems have nothing, I repeat, nothing, to do with either peak cheap oil or subsidized US corn and chickens. Nothing

I was surprised to learn that a lot of the Mexican workers coming over the border to do landscape work were originally small farmers, even farm owners, in Mexico. NAFTA now has Archer Daniels Midland selling beans and corn cheaper in Mexico than the small farmers can sell it for. They went bust, lost their farms and are unemployed, desperate for work to care for their families. Just like the auto manufacturing plants went to Mexico, leaving factory workers here unemployed and desperate for work. NAFTA was a GREAT idea, if you're a multinational corporation. As long as those stockholders get their dividends, then everything's fine, right? John McCain seems to think so.

[hayekvindicated]

Re: Mexican Drug Cartels Now Control Swath of Arizon From Mexican Border North to Phoenix

The war in Afghanistan is not about Afghanistan in particular. It is just a small square on the geopolitical chessboard. However, it's square needs to be held.

This is really about stabilizing Pakistan, which, in turn, is about protecting India, which is a VERY important square on the chessboard.

Look at a map of the Indian Ocean and you'll see that India is the keystone for the entire region. Must be protected. There is a reason why India was called the jewel in the crown of the British empire.

Ensuring a strong and western friendly India protects supply lines from the Persian Gulf to east Asia, makes a strong counter balance against a belligerent China and creates an benevolent environment for SE Asia as well.

We also have this small matter of a feckless Iran causing all kinds of problems. Troops in afghanistan applies pressure on them as well.

There is a lot of truth in what you say but some caveats need to be added to this. India was a jewel in the crown of the British Empire also because it supplied the British army with an enormous number of auxiliary tropps that are so crucial to an empire. Also, India was an enormous producer of raw materials that British industry needed.

The problems today are different. Pakistan has nuclear weapons. An Islamic fundamentalist revolution in Pakistan will make it into the most dangerous country on earth. People who are far from the action have no idea what Pakistan is and what it has become. It has been breeding Islamic fundamentalists for thirty years on Saudi money. If Pakistan went nuclear, it could start a nuclear war in South Asia (not just with India but also with Iran or Israel).

Of course the Chinese have done their part helping Pakistan boost its nuclear arsenal. So the US has a role to play in all this. Isloationism is not an option in a nuclear age. If America steps away from the fight others will step in - Russia, China for starters. And the results would be a lot worse. People who complain about American imperialism have no idea what the world will look like when China becomes top dog.

And Mexico's problems have nothing, I repeat, nothing, to do with either peak cheap oil or subsidized US corn and chickens. Nothing

Large scale immigration from Mexico has a long history in America - this should not surprise anyone. America has been a rich country for a very long time whereas Mexico has been dysfunctional for almost its entire history. In the 1950s, the Eisenhower administration deported nearly 1 million Mexicans to Mexico.

Well I'm glad I didn't get flamed as a racist. Actually my husband wears a long beard and turban. He gets eyeballed aplenty wherever he goes, even though the terrorists of 911 did not wear beards or turbans. Fortunately he's a really nice guy and makes friends with everyone he meets.

We made the decision to quit flying when he told me that if he ever saw security personnel ordering a strip search or body-cavity search of me, he wouldn't be able to keep his temper. I didn't want either of us going to jail for assault, so we decided to simply quit flying.

Not to drift off topic, because I think it has relevance to the boiling frog analogy and the propoganda being spewed about Arizonans wanting to protect the border:

I watched the events at Waco and knew that the citizens there were being marginalized by the way they were described as "cultists" rather than as "citizens". This was the beginning of testing the general public to see what people would put up with in the name of "security". Most people didn't identify with the victims because they didn't consider themselves as "cultists".

Once someone is called a "cultist", they're seen by most as not being entitled to the same rights as "regular" people. No one wants to be identified as a cultist. The government/media does the same marginalizing of citizens when they label them "gun nuts" and "survivalists", when they call small-government advocates "anti-government", etc... I'm pretty sure "gold bugs" will be added to the list at some point. And most people are too stupid to see how they're being manipulated into passive acceptance of the unacceptable. As long people have their bread and circuses, peace will prevail...

I'm seeing a trend of locals not so much fighting government, as doing an end-run around government and just doing what is needed without waiting for government approval. Look at the shrimpers laying boom when the BP contractors wouldn't. Look at the local cleanup efforts towns in Florida are trying to organize. Look at the states going ahead and building sandbars after getting tired of waiting for Washington to make a decision (and look at Washington trying to put a stop to it).

Since Katrina it has become obvious that central government is simply too big, too complex to respond to crises in a quick, efficient, effective way. I do not believe there will be an anti-government revolution in the streets. I think that more and more, people on the local and state levels will simply take matters into their own hands, making central government irrelevant.

The public sympathy factor is high for the Gulf, so the feds won't crack down too hard on their disobediance. Looks like Arizona may soon become ground zero for the experiment.

I would rather be frisked than have the aircraft I am flying in slam into a skyscraper or have some nutjob blow it up because he thinks he is going to get his 72 virgins in paradise. If that is what he wants, he is welcome to get it some other way.

What you are describing is nothing. In Mumbai during my recent trip, you couldn't step into any nice hotel without being frisked and searched thoroughly at the gate. What else are the hotels to do? Have a repeat of 26/11? This is happening not in some foreign country where I am a racial minority but in my ancestral homeland. I hate it but I understand that the consequences of not doing this are far worse.

[don]

Re: Mexican Drug Cartels Now Control Swath of Arizon From Mexican Border North to Phoenix

Large scale immigration from Mexico has a long history in America - this should not surprise anyone. America has been a rich country for a very long time whereas Mexico has been dysfunctional for almost its entire history. In the 1950s, the Eisenhower administration deported nearly 1 million Mexicans to Mexico.

The Braceros Program:

The Bracero Program was initially prompted by a demand for manual labor during World War II, and begun with the U.S. government bringing in a few hundred experienced Mexican agricultural laborers to harvest sugar beets in the Stockton, California area. The program soon spread to cover most of the United States and provided workers for the agriculture labor market (with the notable exception was Texas, who initially opted out of the program in preference of an "open border" policy, and were denied braceros by the Mexican government until 1947 due to perceived mistreatment of Mexican laborers^[1]). As an important corollary, the railroad bracero program was independently negotiated to supply U.S. railroads initially with unskilled workers for track maintenance but eventually to cover other unskilled and skilled labor. By 1945, the quota for the agricultural program was more than 75,000 braceros working in the U.S. railroad system and 50,000 braceros working in U.S. agriculture at any one time.


The railroad program ended with the conclusion of World War II, in 1945.


At the behest of U.S. growers, who claimed ongoing labor shortages, the program was extended under a number of acts of congress until 1948. Between 1948 and 1951, the importation of Mexican agricultural laborers continued under negotiated administrative agreements between growers and the Mexican Government. On July 13, 1951, President Truman signed Public Law 78, a two-year program which embodied formalized protections for Mexican laborers. The program was renewed every two years until 1963, when, under heavy criticism, it was extended for a single year with the understanding it would not be renewed. After the formal end of the agricultural program lasted until 1964, there were agreements covering a much smaller number of contracts until 1967, after which no more braceros were granted.^[2]