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National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

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  • National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

    http://inflation.us/2010inflationreport.pdf

    NIA considers it to be hideous that CNBC and other mainstream media outlets continue to invite on and give credibility to people like Dave Ramsey. Ramsey calls precious metals, "dumb", "speculative", "volatile", and one of the "weirdest" investments. He recommends to his viewers that they purchase CDs and tells them that once they save up enough money they should buy rental properties because, "People always need housing."

    On the surface, U.S. dollars appear to people like Ramsey to be a safe and stable asset because they have a number on them that always stays the same. They fail to realize that when gold prices jump around, it’s not the value of gold that’s changing. What volatility in the price of gold is actually showing us is the unstableness of the U.S. dollar.

    Gold is the most stable asset the world has ever seen. In 1970 you could buy a nice men’s suit for 1 ounce of gold or $35. Today, you can still buy a nice men’s suit for 1 ounce of gold, but $35 will only buy you a nice t-shirt.

    If the U.S. dollar was stable like Ramsey thinks it is, gold would still be $35 per ounce. Gold rising from $35 to above $1,200 shows us that the U.S. dollar has lost over 97% of its purchasing power in terms of gold. His recommendation to buy CDs is completely idiotic, when short-term CDs are paying only 0.3% in interest. If you buy CDs, you are guaranteed to lose about 5% of your purchasing power each year (based on the current rate of price inflation), which is why we are so confident banks will soon start lending their $1.045 trillion in excess reserves.


    In regards to owning rental properties, Ramsey needs to look back at what happened to landlords in Weimar Germany during hyperinflation. During the years 1912-1913 in Weimar Germany before hyperinflation occurred, the average household spent 30.2% of their monthly expenditures on rent. By the third quarter of 1923, rents fell to just 0.2% of the average household’s monthly expenditures. At the height of hyperinflation in Weimar Germany, households were spending 91.6% of their monthly expenditures on food, making it impossible for landlords to raise rents in any meaningful way. With a piece of fruit costing more than a month’s rent, landlords saw their real rental income
    12 National Inflation Association - www.inflation.us
    evaporate.

    Unfortunately, the majority of Americans don’t think for themselves. They get suckered into believing the financial advice of Ramsey and others who spew the same nonsense. Ramsey, who should’ve been chastised for being so wrong about the U.S. economy for so many years, is now quoted in the media more often than ever and was rewarded by FOX Business with his own television show.

    Real Estate is not a good hedge against inflation because it’s an asset that is very difficult to sell. In today’s market it usually takes at least 12 to 18 months to sell a house and the transaction involves inspections, mortgage approvals, contracts, brokers commissions, etc.

    NIA pays very close attention to the median U.S. home price/silver ratio. The national median home price is currently $166,100 or 9,100 ounces of silver. When silver reached its all time high in January of 1980 of $49.45 per ounce, the median U.S. home price at the time was $62,900 or 1,272 ounces of silver. If we see the median U.S. home price/silver ratio return to its low from 1980, we will see another 86% decline in Real Estate prices, in terms of silver. NIA believes if you invest your cash into silver today, instead of Real Estate, you will be able to afford a house that is at least 7 times nicer within the next 5 years or so.

    There is currently a huge shadow inventory of homes that have been foreclosed on but held off the market as banks setup the infrastructure necessary to sell them and wait for housing demand to recover (wishful thinking). NIA believes this shadow inventory is now up to approximately 2 to 3 million homes and many of them could begin hitting the market in the second half of 2010.

    As the millions of homes in the shadow inventory begin hitting the market, those who have been patiently trying to sell their home for the past 12 to 18 months without receiving an offer that is acceptable to them, will rush to lower their asking prices in order to dump their homes as quickly as possible. Currently, about 1/4 of all mortgages are underwater, but as homeowners readjust their asking prices, the underwater rate could quickly reach 1/2 of all mortgages.

  • #2
    Re: National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

    Yep. Sounds about right to me.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

      Sounds like poop to me

      Ramsey is a get outa deby guy - that is his main message

      "Gold is the most stable asset the world has ever seen. In 1970 you could buy a nice men’s suit for 1 ounce of gold or $35. Today, you can still buy a nice men’s suit for 1 ounce of gold, but $35 will only buy you a nice t-shirt."

      The above quote insults the intelligence of normal people - I bought a house with $3000 cash down in 1975 and today it is worth 7 times what I paid for it and I have lived in it mortgage free and rent free for 12 years, Gold cant do anything near that. Get serious.

      Cindy

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

        Originally posted by cindykimlisa View Post
        Sounds like poop to me

        Ramsey is a get outa deby guy - that is his main message

        "Gold is the most stable asset the world has ever seen. In 1970 you could buy a nice men’s suit for 1 ounce of gold or $35. Today, you can still buy a nice men’s suit for 1 ounce of gold, but $35 will only buy you a nice t-shirt."

        The above quote insults the intelligence of normal people - I bought a house with $3000 cash down in 1975 and today it is worth 7 times what I paid for it and I have lived in it mortgage free and rent free for 12 years, Gold cant do anything near that. Get serious.

        Cindy
        Cindy - sounds like your house has been a great 35 year investment. Congratulations.

        I think the point was that during a hyperinflation, % of income spent on rent drops dramatically compared to % spent on other goods, such as food. So if Ramsey is promoting owning rental properties as a hedge against hyperinflation, historically it might not be the best play. Probably better than paper though.

        Apparently I am abnormal, because the quote from NIA (not sure who they are) did not insult my intelligence.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

          Originally posted by lsa420
          So if Ramsey is promoting owning rental properties as a hedge against hyperinflation, historically it might not be the best play.
          Yup - not the best play.

          When the day comes that I have to decide whether I starve or my landlord starves, I'm pretty sure which one I'll choose.
          Most folks are good; a few aren't.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

            Originally posted by cindykimlisa
            The above quote insults the intelligence of normal people - I bought a house with $3000 cash down in 1975 and today it is worth 7 times what I paid for it and I have lived in it mortgage free and rent free for 12 years, Gold cant do anything near that. Get serious.
            Yes, but that $3000 converted into 85.7 ounces of gold would be worth $107000 now - more than 33 times what you paid for it.

            Granted, you did get to live in it for 35 years - but then again how much did you pay in property taxes in that time span?

            What about maintenance?

            Note furthermore that Ramsey doesn't speak about the house you live in - he refers to rental houses as investment.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

              When hyperinflation has occurred in history, how long does it typically last? 6 months? 1 year? After hyperinflation has been seriously addressed how long does it typically take to reestablish a sound economy? Which assets do well after hyperinflation has been resolved? What is the typical length of the transition period for stablization of real assets and personal assets?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

                Originally posted by vanvaley1 View Post
                When hyperinflation has occurred in history, how long does it typically last? 6 months? 1 year? After hyperinflation has been seriously addressed how long does it typically take to reestablish a sound economy? Which assets do well after hyperinflation has been resolved? What is the typical length of the transition period for stablization of real assets and personal assets?
                I have the same questions.

                Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

                  Originally posted by cindykimlisa View Post
                  Sounds like poop to me

                  Ramsey is a get outa deby guy - that is his main message

                  "Gold is the most stable asset the world has ever seen. In 1970 you could buy a nice men’s suit for 1 ounce of gold or $35. Today, you can still buy a nice men’s suit for 1 ounce of gold, but $35 will only buy you a nice t-shirt."

                  The above quote insults the intelligence of normal people - I bought a house with $3000 cash down in 1975 and today it is worth 7 times what I paid for it and I have lived in it mortgage free and rent free for 12 years, Gold cant do anything near that. Get serious.

                  Cindy
                  Cindy, how much interest, taxes, maintenance etc. did you pay since you bought your house? BTW I have not had a mortgage in the last 18 years so I am in a similar situation.
                  jim

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

                    now I don't think rental property is such a bad idea. However it is is not a no brainer, the property should be the the cheapest house in the best neighborhood, and I would not put all my money into it, or a number of properties because
                    I just don't think anyone really knows whats going to happen after the dust settles. Maybe PMs will be illegal?
                    Then all of the GBs here are going to have to choose to sell there PMs for FRNs or choose to be criminals.
                    Also one must be realize the problems of being a land lord.

                    My friend is looking at a small, clean short sale condo in a very nice neighborhood with low crime, good schools.
                    2BDR is 70k. 380 Mo assesment with heat/water, 300 Mo prop tax. I think he can rent it out for around a 900 Mo.
                    So slightly cash flow here.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

                      I was just gonna say the same thing 3K is worth 100K+ interesting when you look at it from that perspective isnt it.... You could buy a house for that amount now in cash... Go to phoenix and offer 100K cash and i would almost guarantee a bank would accept that offer on a house that used to sell for 300K three years ago..... And thats just based on Cindy's down payment, not the actual purchase price in 1975...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

                        Originally posted by from opening thread post
                        On the surface, U.S. dollars appear to people like Ramsey to be a safe and stable asset because they have a number on them that always stays the same. They fail to realize that when gold prices jump around, it’s not the value of gold that’s changing. What volatility in the price of gold is actually showing us is the unstableness of the U.S. dollar.
                        From David Rosenberg's 6/3/2010 daily commentary.

                        Originally posted by Rosenberg
                        MORE ON GOLD
                        We receive emails all the time asking how gold fits into our deflation view. Well, for one, the widespread consensus that gold is an effective inflation hedge is not on the mark. Our statistical analysis shows there to be a fairly loose link even if gold is a store of value. We also know that in the deflationary 1930s, the Sterling price of gold doubled. Gold is also a hedge against financial instability and when the world is awash with over $200 trillion of household, corporate and government liabilities, deflation works against debt servicing capabilities and calls into question the integrity of the global financial system. This is why gold has so much allure today. It is a reflection of investor concern over the monetary stability, and Ben Bernanke and other central bankers only have to step on the printing presses whereas gold miners have to drill over two miles into the ground.

                        The bottom line is that gold makes up a mere 0.05% share of global household net worth (see page 22 of the FT) and so small incremental allocations into bullion or gold-type investments can exert a dramatic impact. Gold cannot be printed by central banks and is a monetary metal that is no government’s liability. It is malleable and its supply curve is inelastic over the intermediate term. And central banks, who were selling during the higher interest rate times of the 1980s and 1990s, are now reallocating their FX reserves towards gold, especially in Asia.

                        Gold is in a secular bull market, actually it has been for over a decade and double from where we are today, in my view, it’s a very easy call. And, if inflation is really the be all that ends all for the gold price, then keep in mind that gold has rallied five-fold since 1999 and yet inflation is the same today as it was then and the core rate has been cut in half. Go figure. Maybe the bottom in gold prices occurred at the same time that global production peaked — maybe it is a bull market rooted in little more than a shifting supply curve.
                        JN emphasis

                        It seems to me that when Rosenberg writes the occasional "go figure" remark it means he can't rationally explain why something has happened. One could perhaps argue what difference does it make for the reason gold has gone up as long as one owns it and has profited. If the reason one owns it is not the reason it has gone up, then one's reasoning is wrong, and when my reasoning is wrong (not infrequently), it usually gets around to making me pay for being wrong--I suppose this is something that is unique to my own investment endeavors.
                        Jim 69 y/o

                        "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

                        Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

                        Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

                          You probably would not believe this -- but the smartest and richest people in the world now are grabbing up real estate(not for living in) at rock bottom prices say nickels and dimes on the dollar - maybe quarters.

                          Aslo if I had used free rent or no mortgage payment cash to buy gold for the last ten years then I would have over a million in Gold now too. But I do not buy or invest in gold.

                          The people who made a killing in the savings and loan crises in the last century were the ones who bought up real estate when no one could give it away.

                          Cindy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

                            Originally posted by vanvaley1 View Post
                            When hyperinflation has occurred in history, how long does it typically last? 6 months? 1 year? After hyperinflation has been seriously addressed how long does it typically take to reestablish a sound economy? Which assets do well after hyperinflation has been resolved? What is the typical length of the transition period for stablization of real assets and personal assets?
                            I don't foresee hyperinflation in the US. I foresee the decline of all currencies and at some point new currencies issued. SOP. And that will be the end of currencies as a "store of value" and only their use as a unit of account and a medium of exchange. As it should be.

                            Hyperinflations can't last very long. They are hyperbolic events and so may last six months to maybe 18 months. They result in the complete destruction of all savings and pensions. The result, complete destruction of savings and pensions, will happen in the US also, but not through hyperinflation Weimar or Zimbabwe style. No way.

                            As Mises pointed out, there is a rush to real assets and out of paper, a "crack up boom" as he called it. But in comparison to an outside unit such as gold, the huge resulting increase in prices of assets is actually a DECLINE in "real" asset prices. Since people are largely economic illiterates (intentionally by government school educations taught by government employees) they don't pick up on this. It is already happening of course, slow motion. But the media focuses on inflation as prices of goods, services and wages. They miss what a trillion or so in "printed" money does because it is hidden away.

                            Right now, this printed money buys bonds. Drives interest rates near zero. So pensions and savings are in a negative yield of probably 2 to 4 percent. Over a few years, this amounts to a great deal of theft but it is invisible.



                            Originally posted by cindykimlisa View Post
                            You probably would not believe this -- but the smartest and richest people in the world now are grabbing up real estate(not for living in) at rock bottom prices say nickels and dimes on the dollar - maybe quarters.

                            Aslo if I had used free rent or no mortgage payment cash to buy gold for the last ten years then I would have over a million in Gold now too. But I do not buy or invest in gold.

                            The people who made a killing in the savings and loan crises in the last century were the ones who bought up real estate when no one could give it away.

                            Cindy
                            I rent and I own precious metals. The best of both worlds.

                            The problem with rental properties is they are dependent upon the credit markets for valuation purposes. The credit markets are in their end game, a once-in-a-lifetime end of a multi decades long credit cycle. This does not bode well for real estate. I am in the real estate business but I don't own rental properties.

                            Look at it this way. Rents are declining due to enormous amounts of inventory of single family homes, in MOST markets. And personal incomes are declining in REAL terms, driving rents down further. This is Depression economics. Real estate IN THE END, eventually, is a money maker in normal times, but at this point, it is too dependent upon falling real incomes, and the end of the credit economy.

                            Real estate will be an amazing bargain in a few years compared to now. The event that will precipitate it is probably US government defaults. Yes, defaults. Mass firings of employees in Washington, defaults on the US foreign debt, etc. That may be 1 to 10 years away but I think we are edging that way faster than we think.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: National Inflation Association Attacks Dave Ramsey‏

                              and back on Dave Ramsey. I favor people defaulting on their debt and negotiating settlements of ten cents on the dollar. Dave Ramsey favors people cutting up their credit cards and paying them off in full over a period of years. Is he wrong and am I right? I think so. His system results in years of self imposed impoverishment and is really rather pointless.

                              My system has been used over and over and results in six to twelve months, people getting on with their lives, with no debt at all, and often with decent credit.

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