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  • In jail for being in debt

    In jail for being in debt

    In jail for being in debt

    Deborah Poplawski still gets angry about her arrest in Minneapolis last year over an old $250 debt. During her night in jail, she worried about abandoning her 15-year-old dog, Nina, in her apartment.

    You committed no crime, but an officer is knocking on your door. More Minnesotans are surprised to find themselves being locked up over debts.

    As a sheriff's deputy dumped the contents of Joy Uhlmeyer's purse into a sealed bag, she begged to know why she had just been arrested while driving home to Richfield after an Easter visit with her elderly mother.

    No one had an answer. Uhlmeyer spent a sleepless night in a frigid Anoka County holding cell, her hands tucked under her armpits for warmth. Then, handcuffed in a squad car, she was taken to downtown Minneapolis for booking. Finally, after 16 hours in limbo, jail officials fingerprinted Uhlmeyer and explained her offense -- missing a court hearing over an unpaid debt. "They have no right to do this to me," said the 57-year-old patient care advocate, her voice as soft as a whisper. "Not for a stupid credit card."

    It's not a crime to owe money, and debtors' prisons were abolished in the United States in the 19th century. But people are routinely being thrown in jail for failing to pay debts. In Minnesota, which has some of the most creditor-friendly laws in the country, the use of arrest warrants against debtors has jumped 60 percent over the past four years, with 845 cases in 2009, a Star Tribune analysis of state court data has found.

    Not every warrant results in an arrest, but in Minnesota many debtors spend up to 48 hours in cells with criminals. Consumer attorneys say such arrests are increasing in many states, including Arkansas, Arizona and Washington, driven by a bad economy, high consumer debt and a growing industry that buys bad debts and employs every means available to collect.

    Whether a debtor is locked up depends largely on where the person lives, because enforcement is inconsistent from state to state, and even county to county.
    In Illinois and southwest Indiana, some judges jail debtors for missing court-ordered debt payments. In extreme cases, people stay in jail until they raise a minimum payment. In January, a judge sentenced a Kenney, Ill., man "to indefinite incarceration" until he came up with $300 toward a lumber yard debt.

    "The law enforcement system has unwittingly become a tool of the debt collectors," said Michael Kinkley, an attorney in Spokane, Wash., who has represented arrested debtors. "The debt collectors are abusing the system and intimidating people, and law enforcement is going along with it."

    How often are debtors arrested across the country? No one can say.
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  • #2
    Re: In jail for being in debt

    Originally posted by Rajiv View Post
    A Modest Proposal: The Free Market Solution to the US Household Debt Problem–Debtors’ Prisons

    By Jane Burns

    September 17, 2006

    As the real estate bubble deflates and credit card interest inflates, it’s time to consider a dynamic new engine for America’s service economy—debtors’ prisons, the next logical step in a free-market economy in which easy credit has freed more us from the burden of saving and allowed us to experience “the good life.” But unfortunately many of us have failed to take responsibility for our financial choices. We borrowed too much and then declared bankruptcy, blithely erasing our obligations and leaving our lenders holding the bag.

    Concerned for the perilous position of lenders and their shareholders after hundreds of billions of dollars were lent to millions of households with limited savings and assets, Congress passed The Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005. Under the act, many debtors who cringe every time the phone rings will no longer be able to get a “fresh start” with a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. If these debtors make more than their state’s median income, they will have to declare a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, which requires them to repay debts as they continue to earn.

    Some of the bankrupt will do the right thing under Chapter 13 and pay what they owe, perhaps for the rest of their lives. But others, predictably, will not. They will shirk their debts simply by ceasing to earn. “You can’t get blood from a stone,” they will mutter to themselves.

    Consider, for instance, the many American homeowners now struggling to make rising monthly payments on their adjustable rate mortgages, or those who took out second mortgages in the expectation of continually rising home values. If they have a financial setback and can’t make their payments, they may lose their homes. And if, because of falling real estate prices, what they owe exceeds the value of their homes, their problems are compounded because they have a so-called underwater mortgage.

    Before bankruptcy reform, consumers could cure underwater mortgage debt in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. But that’s not so easy anymore, thanks to the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005. Many will have to keep paying off underwater mortgages on homes in which they no longer live. Meanwhile they will need to be taken in by friends or family, or rent shelter.

    Not unreasonably, many landlords will not rent to those who have recently gone through foreclosure or bankruptcy. Finding an affordable rental unit may be even more difficult in metropolitan areas where the recent widespread conversion of apartments to condominiums has great reduced the available stock of rental housing. And since many debtors unable to obtain rental housing will also have lost the cozy vehicles in which they might otherwise have lived, and lack friends or family to take them in, a considerable number will become homeless.

    Some homeless debtors with strong work ethics will persevere in earning a legal living and servicing their debt. But others will engage in “underground” cash-only economic activities such as begging and thus avoid attachment of their wages. The availability of homeless shelters, where debtors may come and go as they please, plus the provision of free nourishment in many municipal parks, will encourage this irresponsible behavior.

    But why should homeless debtors loaf in shelters and parks when they can be working off their debt in prison, contributing to the economy, while also creating thousands of badly needed jobs? The weepy-wipers who warn of “social chaos” as the noose of falling real estate prices and bankruptcy reform tightens in America fail to understand that free markets thrive on “creative destruction,” a concept introduced by economist Joseph Schumpeter in 1942. The free market always has the answer. In short, from the ashes of ten million ruined American households, a thousand debtors’ prisons can arise to carry the economy forward inexorably to its next stage of rapid expansion. cont...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: In jail for being in debt

      As prison budgets and personnel are cut, releasing inmates before their sentences are up, imprisonment of debtors is on the rise. A society that knows its priorities. FIRE, baby.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: In jail for being in debt

        Sorry, Metalman and Rajiv, but you guys are wimps compared to the Latvians who know how to deal with this stuff. A while back I wrote a short story about a future in which debts were passed from the debtor to his heirs unto the seventh generation so they could be collected to the last penny. Latvia stole almost all my thunder on that score, too.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: In jail for being in debt

          From across the pond - the law has since been " reformed" people still going to jail though.


          Caroline McCann’s problems didn’t start with the credit union loan. They had taken root a long time before that.

          She suffered from alcoholism and psychiatric issues, and she couldn’t read. She lost a daughter in tragic circumstances, and was forced to take out a loan to cover the cost of her funeral.

          It wasn’t long before she began to miss payments. In 2003, her credit union obtained a judgment of €18,000 against her in court .But she kept missing the court-ordered repayment schedule of €82a week. She didn’t grasp the seriousness of this, and never even sought legal advice until the gardaí turned up at her door. In 2005, the whole awful mess culminated with her being sentenced to jail. Caroline McCann’s case is not unusual.

          In the last five years, more than 1,000 people have spent time in prison for non-payment of debts. The average sentence is 27 days, though some loan defaulters spend as many as 90 days inside.

          Most of these cases never make the headlines, unless they somehow manage to have the judgment overturned - as did the mother of four Who was sentenced to a month in jail In May last year after failing to pay off €1,500 in debt mounting upon the credit card she had signed up for while in a psychiatric hospital. She was successful in having the sentence quashed.


          .....


          It’s hard to conceive how the same state -which has been so assiduous in pursuing unpaid court fines that it has ended up with a prison service bursting at the seams - chooses to take such a softly-softly approach where other, much larger debts are concerned.

          On the day McMahon announced her resignation, newspapers revealed that the government was ‘‘hoping its new relationship framework’’ with Irish Nationwide would ‘‘assist it in recouping’’ the €1million bonus paid to former Irish Nationwide managing director Michael Fingleton.

          Fingleton, lest we forget, has cost the state considerably more than a few unpaid TV licences.

          He is the former managing director of Irish Nationwide, a building society that has required a €2.7 billion cash injection by taxpayers in order to keep it afloat. Last week, the society reported losses of €2.5 billion.

          The €1 million relates to a bonus Fingleton paid himself - along with his €27million pension package - when he retired in 2008, but later agreed to give back. (On the front page of last weekend’s Sunday Independent, he claimed it had been his intention all along to give the €1 million bonus away to charity.)

          Then there is the €109 million owed to us by former directors of Anglo Irish Bank, including Seán FitzPatrick and David Drumm, Which we apparently ‘‘don’t expect to be repaid’’. FitzPatrick is another one who has cost the state rather more than a few unpaid parking fines.

          But he’s not languishing on a mattress on the floor of a shower room in Mountjoy jail with vermin for company.

          No, having been arrested and questioned and released without charge, he is free to enjoy the spoils of his generous pension, his €400,000 golden handshake and his frequent trips to Marbella.

          Former Anglo chief executive David Drumm went to Cape Cod with his pension entitlements intact and a €659,000 bonus paid by Anglo, and wouldn’t open the door when Charlie Bird came calling - which, it seems, was the best effort the state could make at going after him.

          As double standards go, they’re dizzying. Our prisons are coming apart at the seams with people who - because of carelessness or stupidity or old-fashioned poverty - have cost us a few thousand euro in unpaid fines.

          We’re prepared to fork out €2,000 a week to keep each one of them in prison. At the same time, a tiny number of well-connected men who have - through carelessness or stupidity or old-fashioned greed - cost the state hundreds of billions are living it up in Marbella and Dublin 4 and Cape Cod, untouched and - so far at least - untouchable.
          Meanwhile


          Judge warns bankers of arrest



          By Claire O'Brien

          Friday May 28 2010 Note Bene

          A CONTROVERSIAL judge yesterday launched a stinging attack on bankers, warning he would issue an arrest warrant for anyone who intimidated people who are in debt.
          "I'm not going to have people taking their own lives or losing sleepless nights as a result of the trials and tribulations of indebtedness," said Judge John Neilan at Mullingar District Court.
          He said people in debt should never be afraid to come before the court where they would be treated with "dignity and respect".
          "The banks never complied with any rules or regulations," he said. "They were masters under God."
          The judge made the comments as he dealt with Felim Heduvan, of Ballynacargy, Co Westmeath, who is being pursued by a hardware firm for €68,000. His company Pentium Construction has since gone into liquidation.
          Judge Neilan said: "If there are bullyboys in any bank in this country, give me their name and I'll issue a warrant and have them here by 2pm." He adjourned the case until July.
          - Claire O'Brien
          Irish Independent
          And the beat goes on - corruption as far as the eye can see


          Legal world stunned as outspoken judge suddenly quits bench


          By Claire O'Brien

          Saturday May 29 2010 Note Bene

          THE district court judge who has famously criticised everyone from Dave Fanning to the HSE, from bankers and to senior gardai, has announced his immediate retirement from the bench.
          "I came in quietly and I'll go quietly," was the last thing a smiling Judge John Neilan said as he left Mullingar District Court yesterday.
          He declined to comment to the media on the shock announcement.
          The move came only hours after listeners to a regional radio station came out in support of Judge Neilan, who earlier this week threatened to issue a warrant to arrest bankers who intimidated anyone with debt problems.
          "Finally someone is providing the leadership so many people are crying out for," said one caller to Shannonside/Northern Sound's morning programme.
          However, the controversial judge, who always counted himself as "one of the little people", stunned gardai and members of the legal profession when the court's chief clerk, Margaret Raftery, announced shortly before 6pm that he had heard his last case.
          Fearing he would become emotional, the judge gave instructions that he did not want to hear tributes but wanted the chief clerk to pass on the message that he had enjoyed his time on the bench and in Mullingar.
          Ms Raftery described Mr Neilan as "a great judge" and said people would be sorry to see him leave.
          However, the tributes soon flowed as solicitor Robert Marren said the "champion of the underdog" had taken people by surprise with his decision.
          Mr Marren described the judge as "distinguished" and someone who was never afraid to take on the State or its institutions including the HSE in a "fearless way".
          He had worked particularly hard for young people "to ensure they got the help they needed".
          Courtesy
          Superintendent John Gantly said the judge had "always gone out of his way to ensure law and order and peace".
          State solicitor Peter Jones thanked him on behalf of the Attorney General and the Director of Public Prosecutions.
          Mr Jones added: "He acquitted himself well and with courtesy and will be sadly missed."
          - Claire O'Brien
          Irish Independent
          "that each simple substance has relations which express all the others"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: In jail for being in debt

            The more one reads about debtor prisons, changes to Bankruptcy law in 2005 ()forever serfs) and Bank bailouts, the more you are convinced that USA is an oligarchy runs by elites.
            All evidence points to that.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: In jail for being in debt

              Originally posted by sishya View Post
              The more one reads about debtor prisons, changes to Bankruptcy law in 2005 ()forever serfs) and Bank bailouts, the more you are convinced that USA is an oligarchy runs by elites.
              All evidence points to that.


            • October 2, 2009, 2:25 PM ET
            • U.S. Tops in World Prison Population Ranking!

              The United States has the highest prison population rate in the world, 756 per 100,000 of the national population, followed by Russia (629), Rwanda (604), St Kitts & Nevis (588), Cuba (c.531), U.S. Virgin Is. (512), British Virgin Is. (488), Palau (478), Belarus (468), Belize (455), Bahamas (422), Georgia (415), American Samoa (410), Grenada (408) and Anguilla (401).

              http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/10/02/...ation-ranking/

            Comment


            • #8
              Re: In jail for being in debt

              I'd accept this as a new norm if we could put all the politicians who increase the national debt and print money. They spend spend spend with no intention of paying it back. Congress, senate, state, municipal, presidents, all to jail. There needs to be some recourse for non payment. All these bums do is rent out the state for 4 years at a time to the highest bidders.

              Comment


              • #9
                Re: In jail for being in debt

                She was arrested for missing a scheduled court appearance. She was not arrested for being in debt or default. The headline is misleading and sensationalist.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Re: In jail for being in debt

                  Originally posted by chr5648 View Post
                  I'd accept this as a new norm if we could put all the politicians who increase the national debt and print money. They spend spend spend with no intention of paying it back. Congress, senate, state, municipal, presidents, all to jail. There needs to be some recourse for non payment. All these bums do is rent out the state for 4 years at a time to the highest bidders.
                  What about the voters who elected them?

                  Cut taxes, increase tax credits for your home mortgages...

                  To a certain extent, you can diffuse the blame onto a couple generations of people that don't know what civility is. That's your aunts and uncles, your cousins and your parents.

                  Every politician since 1964 has increased the national debt, and 2/3 of government employees are at the state or local level, and they are the worst offenders.

                  So go howl at your township's council meeting.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Re: In jail for being in debt

                    See the comments here

                    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread582112/pg2


                    I hate to agree with you but you hit the nail on the head. The OP is very misleading, because the debt was not the direct cause of arrest, I am a police officer and I have been charged before for missing a court date...no exceptions.
                    If you read the pages of the article, there are more than one btw.

                    Here is a snippet:
                    It's not a crime to owe money, and debtors' prisons were abolished in the United States in the 19th century. But people are routinely being thrown in jail for failing to pay debts. In Minnesota, which has some of the most creditor-friendly laws in the country, the use of arrest warrants against debtors has jumped 60 percent over the past four years, with 845 cases in 2009, a Star Tribune analysis of state court data has found.

                    Not every warrant results in an arrest, but in Minnesota many debtors spend up to 48 hours in cells with criminals. Consumer attorneys say such arrests are increasing in many states, including Arkansas, Arizona and Washington, driven by a bad economy, high consumer debt and a growing industry that buys bad debts and employs every means available to collect.


                    Its not a matter of missing court dates, these individuals are never told they have to be there in the first place!

                    Because of the "no tell" policy of the warrents being issued, those involved had no idea they had to be in court.

                    Now a good sum of these people are behind bars.

                    Now this is the issue and the related thread.

                    Now being an officer of the peace, you should see that this is very unethical and maybe illegal.
                    There are other comments there that bear reading

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Re: In jail for being in debt

                      "At this festive season of the year, Mr. Scrooge," said the gentleman, taking up a pen, "it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and Destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir."
                      "Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge.
                      "Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
                      "And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"
                      "They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not."
                      "The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge.
                      "Both very busy, sir."
                      "Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course," said Scrooge. "I'm very glad to hear it."
                      "Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude," returned the gentleman, "a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?"
                      "Nothing!" Scrooge replied.
                      "You wish to be anonymous?"
                      "I wish to be left alone," said Scrooge. "Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned -- they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there."
                      "Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
                      "If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. Besides -- excuse me -- I don't know that."
                      "But you might know it" observed the gentleman.
                      "It's not my business," Scrooge returned. "It's enough for a man to understand his own business, and not to interfere with other people's. Mine occupies me constantly. Good afternoon, gentlemen!"
                      ScreamBucket.com

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Re: In jail for being in debt

                        Originally posted by bpr View Post
                        What about the voters who elected them?

                        Cut taxes, increase tax credits for your home mortgages...

                        To a certain extent, you can diffuse the blame onto a couple generations of people that don't know what civility is. That's your aunts and uncles, your cousins and your parents.

                        Every politician since 1964 has increased the national debt, and 2/3 of government employees are at the state or local level, and they are the worst offenders.

                        So go howl at your township's council meeting.

                        Good point, shove em all in jail

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Re: In jail for being in debt

                          As a sheriff's deputy dumped the contents of Joy Uhlmeyer's purse into a sealed bag, she begged to know why she had just been arrested while driving home to Richfield after an Easter visit with her elderly mother.

                          No one had an answer. Uhlmeyer spent a sleepless night in a frigid Anoka County holding cell, her hands tucked under her armpits for warmth. Then, handcuffed in a squad car, she was taken to downtown Minneapolis for booking. Finally, after 16 hours in limbo, jail officials fingerprinted Uhlmeyer and explained her offense -- missing a court hearing over an unpaid debt.
                          Um, Miranda rights anyone?

                          Oh, right. The Government gracefully in its infinite wisdom gives us our rights nowadays, and therefore can take them all away at a whim. So much for all that "endowed by our Creator" limited government right-wing extremist document from over 200 years ago...

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Re: In jail for being in debt

                            Originally posted by chr5648 View Post
                            I'd accept this as a new norm if we could put all the politicians who increase the national debt and print money. They spend spend spend with no intention of paying it back. Congress, senate, state, municipal, presidents, all to jail. There needs to be some recourse for non payment. All these bums do is rent out the state for 4 years at a time to the highest bidders.

                            The problem is that many of these shysters never bother to serve a subpeana against the people they are suing hoping to win a judgment from the court due the fact that the defendent in the case doesn't bother to show. How nice that the judge throws the person in jail to boot for contempt of court. Asshats.

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