BP: No Stranger to Disaster

[ASH]

Re: BP: No Stranger to Disaster

Frankly I'm not sure what it has to do with BP's currect travails / negligent acts though. Someone's going to have to spell that out for me.

It was a 'hook'. The author of the article wanted to write about the history of American relations with the Middle East, but also wanted to capitalize upon current popular interest in the ongoing Deepwater Horizon fiasco, to attract readers. In short, the connection is tenuous at best. It's like if I wanted to write an article about nuclear fusion, but knew few people wanted to read such an article, so I put a picture of a girl in a bikini in my article, because H-bombs were once tested at Bikini Atoll in the Marshall Islands. :-)

[Master Shake]

Re: BP: No Stranger to Disaster

It was a 'hook'. The author of the article wanted to write about the history of American relations with the Middle East, but also wanted to capitalize upon current popular interest in the ongoing Deepwater Horizon fiasco, to attract readers. In short, the connection is tenuous at best. It's like if I wanted to write an article about nuclear fusion, but knew few people wanted to read such an article, so I put a picture of a girl in a bikini in my article, because H-bombs were once tested at Bikini Atoll in the Marshall Islands. :-)

I dunno, Ash. I think the point is that we've been fucked by BP before and we're being fucked now.

[FrankL]

Re: BP: No Stranger to Disaster

It was a 'hook'. The author of the article wanted to write about the history of American relations with the Middle East, but also wanted to capitalize upon current popular interest in the ongoing Deepwater Horizon fiasco, to attract readers. In short, the connection is tenuous at best. It's like if I wanted to write an article about nuclear fusion, but knew few people wanted to read such an article, so I put a picture of a girl in a bikini in my article, because H-bombs were once tested at Bikini Atoll in the Marshall Islands. :-)

that was my take on it too. The author claimed the Americans needed the British to get a bad image in the Middle East. They didn't need the British for the nation-building they've done in other places, so it's a weak argument at it.

[ASH]

Re: BP: No Stranger to Disaster

I dunno, Ash. I think the point is that we've been fucked by BP before and we're being fucked now.

I suppose. The thing is, I don't get the impression it was BP as a private company that was the problem back in the 50's, so much as Britain as a nation, pursuing national economic interests with national tools. Ed Wallace talks about BP having the oil contract with the Persians, but the British state acting in concert with BP to enforce that contract. Presumably, it wasn't BP -- or BP's foreign intelligence service -- that whispered in America's ear that Mosaddegh was a pinko commie rat bastard. It wasn't BP's military that was mobilized to seize the Abadan refinery. The way I look at it, the British Empire was disintegrating after having been weakened by two world wars, and was in the process of losing many of its colonial possessions. The Brits were short of money after WWII, and weren't in a mood to give up a key economic advantage left over from their Empire, which was the abusive oil contract with the Persians... especially since the folks in that part of the world had been friendly toward the Axis powers during WWII. So, to say that "BP" screwed us back then isn't exactly right -- it was the British government that influenced those events. I see today's disaster as being much more about BP the company, and less about Her Majesty's government. (And sure, we could talk about the times that the British government has screwed us -- or we them -- but one rather expects sovereign nations to pursue their own interests, even when they are friends.)

[loweyecue]

Re: BP: No Stranger to Disaster

He is asking for the Government to "provide" the 5 million feet of boom and additional "resources". This same Governor who vociferously refused Government "bailout money" during Katrina and criticized the Federal Govt for even getting involved in the relief effort.

And what has BP and Jindal (Big Corporation and Small Govt) done for Louisiana? They put the lives of more people at risk They send ill equipped fishermen to work in the oil laying down the boom, where they are exposed to dangerous levels of toxic fumes. BP has said "they are monitoring the air quality" and see no need for protective masks. And of course these people aren't even being paid by BP. This what republicans wanted is it not? Big Companies that regulate their own actions? So why is he now calling on the Federal Govt to exert pressure on BP?

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: BP: No Stranger to Disaster

Yep. Purely as a speculation. With money that I understand I might completely lose since there is a possibility that the stock goes to zero. But I judge the probability of that to be considerably lower than the chances the stock pops once there starts to be some good news for BP coming from the blowout efforts.

Another great play might be RIG, Transocean limited. Rumours say:
- their NAV is $106/share; before the spill they traded around $80, but have plunged to about $50.
--they have billions of contracts in-hand
- might entirely escape any liabilty for this spill for two reasons -BP really WAS calling all the shots, and their contract have ironclad indemnity clauses.

[Master Shake]

Re: BP: No Stranger to Disaster

He is asking for the Government to "provide" the 5 million feet of boom and additional "resources". This same Governor who vociferously refused Government "bailout money" during Katrina and criticized the Federal Govt for even getting involved in the relief effort.

And what has BP and Jindal (Big Corporation and Small Govt) done for Louisiana? They put the lives of more people at risk They send ill equipped fishermen to work in the oil laying down the boom, where they are exposed to dangerous levels of toxic fumes. BP has said "they are monitoring the air quality" and see no need for protective masks. And of course these people aren't even being paid by BP. This what republicans wanted is it not? Big Companies that regulate their own actions? So why is he now calling on the Federal Govt to exert pressure on BP?

You don't know wtf you're talking about. Jindal wasn't even governor during Katrina, it was the witless and helpless Kathleen Blanco.

Jindal's asking the Army Corp of Engineers to expedite the approval to constuct sand berms to keep the oil from hitting the marshes. Little too late now.

[ASH]

Re: BP: No Stranger to Disaster

Another great play might be RIG, Transocean limited. Rumours say:
- their NAV is $106/share; before the spill they traded around $80, but have plunged to about $50.
--they have billions of contracts in-hand
- might entirely escape any liabilty for this spill for two reasons -BP really WAS calling all the shots, and their contract have ironclad indemnity clauses.

January 22nd, 2011 call for RIG, strike price $60, priced at ~$5.

But what if "the end of the first reflation bounce" takes this down further? Or what if public (and official) antipathy trumps the letter of contract law? (And I've got to remember that I'm not a trader... must repeat to myself "I'm not a trader".)

[touchring]

Re: BP: No Stranger to Disaster

Another great play might be RIG, Transocean limited. Rumours say:
- their NAV is $106/share; before the spill they traded around $80, but have plunged to about $50.
--they have billions of contracts in-hand
- might entirely escape any liabilty for this spill for two reasons -BP really WAS calling all the shots, and their contract have ironclad indemnity clauses.

RIG doesn't give dividends? i bought some bp adr, intend to average down if the price drops.

[Starving Steve]

Re: BP: No Stranger to Disaster

Since the human body is made out of oil and requires oil in the diet, what is toxic about oil in the Gulf of Mexico? I swam in oil in the Pacific Ocean as a kid, and oil is part of the natural environment. It leaks up from earthquake faults along the California coast.

Yes, I own 200 shares of BP, but I am trying to argue here as an Earth scientist. I would argue in favour of oil whether I owned BP stock or not--- simply because oil is not toxic, and because oil is not a pollutant in a marine environment.

I don't like mis-information based upon junk science, and that is what the legal case against BP seems to be based upon.

Personally, I have benefited more financially by the mis-information against BP because my heavy oil and gas trusts in northern Alberta have appreciated in value since the BP spill in the Gulf of Mexico. But I think BP is being unjustly crucified on this spill because oil is not a pollutant and crude oil is not toxic. The EPA is just plain wrong in Washington, DC.

[ASH]

Re: BP: No Stranger to Disaster

Since the human body is made out of oil and requires oil in the diet, what is toxic about oil in the Gulf of Mexico? I swam in oil in the Pacific Ocean as a kid, and oil is part of the natural environment.

Was this about the same time when you were playing around with mercury? That's something I recall from one of your postings about toxicity in another thread. ;-)

[Starving Steve]

Re: BP: No Stranger to Disaster

Mercury vapour is a nerve poison. Pure mercury has a high vapour pressure, so it quickly evaporates into the air and creates a health risk that is real.

As kids growing-up near the quicksilver mines in New Almaden in San Jose, California, we used to play with buckets of quicksilver from the mines. One day, at Union Middle School in San Jose, a student brought a bucket of quicksilver into our classroom, and unfortunately, the mercury ended-up on the floor of the classroom---- Needless to say, the school principal got quite upset by the incident.

Sadly, the EPA closed-down the mines at New Almaden, so the fun times for kids in San Jose were ended by the EPA.

I have a rich ore sample of cinnibar, the native red-coloured ore of mercury, here next to me on my desktop, above my computer screen.... If anything, the cinnibar sample has helped my critical-thinking, or would you dis-agree?

[ASH]

Re: BP: No Stranger to Disaster

I have a rich ore sample of cinnibar, the native red-coloured ore of mercury, here next to me on my desktop, above my computer screen.... If anything, the cinnibar sample has helped my critical-thinking, or would you dis-agree?

No disagreement here. I think it would be cool to have a bit of cinnibar to look at.

For some reason, your anecdote about the mercury -- which you shared earlier -- stuck in my mind. I think it struck me that "a lot" of your stories (well, really only two) are about how you were exposed to potentially hazardous substances in your youth, and came through just fine.

For my part, I too have encountered the odd ball of tar on the beaches in Santa Barbara, resulting from crude seeping from the ocean floor. But concentration matters a lot, and the amount of crude oil that is released into the ocean by natural processes is a rather different scale than the spill in the Gulf of Mexico. For that matter, the human body is 'made out of oil' and 'requires oil in the diet' only in a very general sense. You already know this, but "oil" is a very general class of compound, and specificity matters a lot when it comes to chemistry. I'm not signing up to drink or bathe in crude; are you?

[flintlock]

Re: BP: No Stranger to Disaster

anyone buying BP? lol

I actually considered buying a little with my play money , but then thought better of it and decided to wait. It dropped 15% the next day! I'm going to wait a few more days then buy some. My guess is it will start to climb the closer we get to the relief wells being completed, but what happens after that is anyone's guess. If they fail then there's no telling how far it drops in value.

[flintlock]

Re: BP: No Stranger to Disaster

Another great play might be RIG, Transocean limited. Rumours say:
- their NAV is $106/share; before the spill they traded around $80, but have plunged to about $50.
--they have billions of contracts in-hand
- might entirely escape any liabilty for this spill for two reasons -BP really WAS calling all the shots, and their contract have ironclad indemnity clauses.

RIG up 5.71% today.