Ocean Floor Live Feed - Exceptional Thread.

[Aetius Romulous]

It is always a little cheezy posting a link to another forum, however Godlike Productions has an open, ongoing thread were it's members are watching the feed 24/7. The posts and comments form a living record of changes minute by minute, and is becoming a gathering place for input and Ideas.

There are some great engineers on ITulip, and I think their input and participation on this remarkable thread can accomplish something. Please check it out, and pass the Thread link on to ther sites you visit regularly as I have done here.

I truly hate these BP bastards now. I want to help. This is my little bit.

Ocean Floor Live Feed Monitoring Thread

[Starving Steve]

Re: Ocean Floor Live Feed - Exceptional Thread.

If you want to hate BP because of its pressure to release the Lockarbie bomber and send him back to Libya for a hero's welcome, I would say you would have a good reason. But if you want to hate BP for its oil spill, I would say that you have no case because oil is a natural part of the marine environment. I discovered that fact when I swam in the surf of California's Monterey Bay where oil routinely leaks up from fissures in the sea floor and has done so for millions of years. Oil and tar is deposited on California's beaches everyday, everywhere. The closer one is to an active earthquake fault, the more oil and tar one finds in the surf and on the beaches.

Oil and tar are a natural part of the marine environment and are not pollutants. Oil-eating bacteria will naturally clean the oil and tar away, just as they have for eons.

[chr5648]

Re: Ocean Floor Live Feed - Exceptional Thread.

It is always a little cheezy posting a link to another forum, however Godlike Productions has an open, ongoing thread were it's members are watching the feed 24/7. The posts and comments form a living record of changes minute by minute, and is becoming a gathering place for input and Ideas.

There are some great engineers on ITulip, and I think their input and participation on this remarkable thread can accomplish something. Please check it out, and pass the Thread link on to ther sites you visit regularly as I have done here.

I truly hate these BP bastards now. I want to help. This is my little bit.

Ocean Floor Live Feed Monitoring Thread

The real question to ask is who does this leak benefit?

I believe it benefits the .gov. The gov has no incentive to stop this leak, if they stop the leak, it stops and then cleanup. On the other hand, by not fixing the leak the problem gets bigger and bigger, before you know it there will be beer summits for the oil, and after that a new government agency, which will spend more money, and some more goldman sachs consulting and products to be bought. The incentive is to not stop the leak. They could of stopped it and made the well inoperable, but they are trying to save the well. If the gov actually wanted to stop the leak it would have been done by now.

[Aetius Romulous]

Re: Ocean Floor Live Feed - Exceptional Thread.

If you want to hate BP because of its pressure to release the Lockarbie bomber and send him back to Libya for a hero's welcome, I would say you would have a good reason. But if you want to hate BP for its oil spill, I would say that you have no case because oil is a natural part of the marine environment. I discovered that fact when I swam in the surf of California's Monterey Bay where oil routinely leaks up from fissures in the sea floor and has done so for millions of years. Oil and tar is deposited on California's beaches everyday, everywhere. The closer one is to an active earthquake fault, the more oil and tar one finds in the surf and on the beaches.

Oil and tar are a natural part of the marine environment and are not pollutants. Oil-eating bacteria will naturally clean the oil and tar away, just as they have for eons.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I understand both the importance and complexity of our oil situation. I am aware of the risks as much as any "lay" observer can be.

What has turned me from a reasonable stance to one of outrage is BP's public relations efforts and the misspent time, trouble and money stick handling litigation and criminal charges, all at the expense of a rapid and transparent response. I feel for BP. I do. It is a mess and it happened on their watch but I don't pretend for the moment it could not happen again and to someone else. I'll leave the wider debate about risk/reward/social costs for other threads.

I hate the bastards and scores of oil related cronies should go to jail for this. As a member of society who will, in the end, pay the freight for this I am appalled.

[Aetius Romulous]

Re: Ocean Floor Live Feed - Exceptional Thread.

The real question to ask is who does this leak benefit?

I believe it benefits the .gov. The gov has no incentive to stop this leak, if they stop the leak, it stops and then cleanup. On the other hand, by not fixing the leak the problem gets bigger and bigger, before you know it there will be beer summits for the oil, and after that a new government agency, which will spend more money, and some more goldman sachs consulting and products to be bought. The incentive is to not stop the leak. They could of stopped it and made the well inoperable, but they are trying to save the well. If the gov actually wanted to stop the leak it would have been done by now.

I dunno. It's early days. We may never know the truth and if we ever do, it may take years. Decades. Perhaps a generation.

At the moment I can't believe this benefits anyone but the few companies who will make zillions cleaning the mess up and, of course, the lawyers. But they gotta live in the same biosphere no matter how well they "make out". But there are parties whose interest in capping/cleaning is mitigated by conflicting interests of profit, fiduciary duty, and return on investment. Me, I want the thing done as fast as possible and with absolutely no delay or equivocating. I could give a rats ass about the financial cost or who pays it at this point. There are others who feel differently, and those people are bastards by every human measure.

[WDCRob]

Re: Ocean Floor Live Feed - Exceptional Thread.

If you want to hate BP because of its pressure to release the Lockarbie bomber and send him back to Libya for a hero's welcome, I would say you would have a good reason. But if you want to hate BP for its oil spill, I would say that you have no case because oil is a natural part of the marine environment. I discovered that fact when I swam in the surf of California's Monterey Bay where oil routinely leaks up from fissures in the sea floor and has done so for millions of years. Oil and tar is deposited on California's beaches everyday, everywhere. The closer one is to an active earthquake fault, the more oil and tar one finds in the surf and on the beaches.

Oil and tar are a natural part of the marine environment and are not pollutants. Oil-eating bacteria will naturally clean the oil and tar away, just as they have for eons.

Steve, you are, as always, the very voice of moderation and sensibility. I remember just 25 years ago how I was explaining to my friends that the US/USSR policy of M.A.D. was nothing to fret about. It turns out that nuclear radiation is rendered harmless through the natural half-life deterioration of radioactive material! But no amount of persuasion was enough to convince them that we ought to avoid nuclear war; to listen to them talk you'd have thought the world would end or something! I'm not sure if they were pacifist pussies, or liberal arts majors who just didn't understand natural phenomena - but what can you do? The goddamn liberal press slanted every story their way.

[Shakespear]

Re: Ocean Floor Live Feed - Exceptional Thread.

oil routinely leaks up from fissures in the sea floor and has done so for millions of years.

Was it flowing at rates in the range of 5,000 bbl/day to 30,000 bbl/day ? :confused:

[Aetius Romulous]

Re: Ocean Floor Live Feed - Exceptional Thread.

Was it flowing at rates in the range of 5,000 bbl/day to 30,000 bbl/day ? :confused:

The current consensus has risen to 70-100k bbl/day. The official BP estimate was zero, they were recovering 5k a dayat the same time as they were estimating a 5k a day flow. That was official. Those other estimates were by dumbass non-paid spokesmen in universities, labs, and websites around the planet.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Ocean Floor Live Feed - Exceptional Thread.

Steve, you are, as always, the very voice of moderation and sensibility. I remember just 25 years ago how I was explaining to my friends that the US/USSR policy of M.A.D. was nothing to fret about. It turns out that nuclear radiation is rendered harmless through the natural half-life deterioration of radioactive material! But no amount of persuasion was enough to convince them that we ought to avoid nuclear war; to listen to them talk you'd have thought the world would end or something! I'm not sure if they were pacifist pussies, or liberal arts majors who just didn't understand natural phenomena - but what can you do? The goddamn liberal press slanted every story their way.

The more radioactive something is, the shorter its half-life. So the billion-year half-life radionuclides ( such as uranium ) are not very radioactive. This basic knowlege about physics is something that the public needs to know, especially the so-called ecologists who are shaping policy in the EPA and various state and provincial environmental planning agencies.

Another fact that the public needs to know is that the human body repairs cell damage done to it by radiation. All life on Earth naturally repairs cell damage from radiation, otherwise all life on this planet would have died-out long ago from the background radiation on Earth from uranium in granite, from the Sun, from cosmic radiation, and from such radionuclides as potassium in the soil.

Finally, wouldn't it be wise now to de-commission atomic weaponry and use the enriched uranium found in such weaponry to supply the fuel needs for atomic power plants? If the Sierra Club and Greenpeace would campaign for de-commissioning atomic weaponry, I would join those organizations and join their campaign.

One more point about BP and the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico: Why are there already 19,000 law-suits filed against BP? It would seem to me that Greenpeace and the other environmental groups now protesting the oil spill are filling their pockets with money from lawyers who are launching the 19,000 law-suits.

Yes, some law-suits might be in order, but 19,000? ( That fact tells me plenty about the environmentalists to-day. )

[Chomsky]

Re: Ocean Floor Live Feed - Exceptional Thread.

Steve, you are, as always, the very voice of moderation and sensibility. I remember just 25 years ago how I was explaining to my friends that the US/USSR policy of M.A.D. was nothing to fret about. It turns out that nuclear radiation is rendered harmless through the natural half-life deterioration of radioactive material! But no amount of persuasion was enough to convince them that we ought to avoid nuclear war; to listen to them talk you'd have thought the world would end or something! I'm not sure if they were pacifist pussies, or liberal arts majors who just didn't understand natural phenomena - but what can you do? The goddamn liberal press slanted every story their way.

Great post, but even satire is ineffective against the blathering bluststorm that is Starving Steve. May I suggest the Ignore function? Has worked wonders for me.

[metalman]

Re: Ocean Floor Live Feed - Exceptional Thread.

Steve, you are, as always, the very voice of moderation and sensibility. I remember just 25 years ago how I was explaining to my friends that the US/USSR policy of M.A.D. was nothing to fret about. It turns out that nuclear radiation is rendered harmless through the natural half-life deterioration of radioactive material! But no amount of persuasion was enough to convince them that we ought to avoid nuclear war; to listen to them talk you'd have thought the world would end or something! I'm not sure if they were pacifist pussies, or liberal arts majors who just didn't understand natural phenomena - but what can you do? The goddamn liberal press slanted every story their way.

[Munger]

Re: Ocean Floor Live Feed - Exceptional Thread.

Steve, don't take this the wrong way, but I think you might be insane. At the very least, you are probably the most dogmatic person I have yet encountered. You are twice as bad as any "eco-fraud" I have ever met, just on the opposite side.

Your M.O. is to take something that is true -- oil exists in oceans, radioactivity inversely correlates with half-life, cells can repair radiation damage -- and extrapolate to absolutely indefensible/batsh!t insane positions.

Think about it. Assess. Introspect. Improve.

Just my 2 cents.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Ocean Floor Live Feed - Exceptional Thread.

Steve, don't take this the wrong way, but I think you might be insane. At the very least, you are probably the most dogmatic person I have yet encountered. You are twice as bad as any "eco-fraud" I have ever met, just on the opposite side.

Your M.O. is to take something that is true -- oil exists in oceans, radioactivity inversely correlates with half-life, cells can repair radiation damage -- and extrapolate to absolutely indefensible/batsh!t insane positions.

Think about it. Assess. Introspect. Improve.

Just my 2 cents.

Thank you for your two-cents.

I think that the environmentalists have quite a bit of explaining here to do: Why did they kill the nuclear power industry and cause the decline of our standard of living in the Western World? Who gained by that?

In nineteen days or so, we now have 19,000 law-suits launched against BP. Aside from some pelicans with oily legs, why the law-suits, or are the environmentalists getting kick-backs from law firms for launching law-suits against big oil?

I just ask questions. I do quite a bit of what is called, "critical thinking", something that is not taught in the American K-12 public schools, and not even at American public universities such as UC Berkeley. I try to put all information together and try to make sense of it. Then I ask questions, hence: "critical thinking".

Nineteen thousand law-suits against BP in about 19 days: What do you make of that fact? Who gained?

Would it be too much to ask the endangered pelicans to lick the oil off of their legs? What makes Louisiana's island ecology "delicate"? What makes that ecology different from the ecology here on the West Coast where oil routinely washes up onto our beaches, at least in California?

[metalman]

Re: Ocean Floor Live Feed - Exceptional Thread.

Would it be too much to ask the endangered pelicans to lick the oil off of their legs?

well, would it? why not?

[Munger]

Re: Ocean Floor Live Feed - Exceptional Thread.

In the U.S., you cannot sue unless you have "standing." I.e., you must be specifically damaged by the oil spill. I.e., a California environmentalist cannot sue BP for this oil spill.

Nineteen thousand lawsuits = nineteen thousand Gulf coast fishermen, farmers, small businesses and property owners who have been shafted by BP's negligence.