Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

[chr5648]

Re: Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

1) I don't know why you guys are discussing libertarians in power, considering there has not been any major libertarian party for a long time, nor is there any major libertarian party currently. Nor is there any major libertarian movement. Tea parties are not libertarian, most may say they are. but when asked what areas of government to cut the majority has no clue nor do they want their social security or medicaid cut. What threat could these 'libertarians' possibly possess when they have no power? Democracy just gets rented out to the highest bidder every 2, 4, 6, years at the national level, I highly doubt the 'libertarians' would be great auctioneers.

2) The sociopaths are already out there, they're in power, most can be spotted through their own hypocricy.

3) Even if the government tried to regulate science labs someone would be doing this crap in their basement or garage. The government has tried to manipulate human behavior for a long time and looking at the empirical evidence I highly doubt it has worked at all. At best people themselves realize its best to not drive over the speed limit or drunk. Internal morals and values lead them, .gov can do very.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

3) Even if the government tried to regulate science labs someone would be doing this crap in their basement or garage

Well, no one will be doing this in their basement for now.

It took tens of millions of dollars and years of effort by top, inside scientists just to create a modest variant of a single cell genetics that already existed. The current technology is quite a ways from anything seriously interesting except for one cell organisms whose genetics are defined by modifying a known, living example.

Presently we face greater dangers from herbicides, GMO foods, numerous chemicals in our food, water and air, and other such less difficult dangers. The sociopaths in positions of power are still the big danger.

Characterizing the long term dangers and opportunities is more difficult.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

You can get a DNA synthesizer on eBay for 2K

http://cgi.ebay.com/AB-APPLIED-BIOSY...3#ht_500wt_928

[unlucky]

Re: Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

What has me very worried is this guys interet in patents. Privatising this kind of technology is just crazy, my mind goes to all sorts of horrible places thinking about the kind of power that certain individuals will have over the conditons and choices available to the rest of us.

Bear in mind, a patent is an arrangement in which the inventor agrees to publish the details of how the invention works, in exchange for a limited (20 years) grant of exclusive rights over its commercial exploitation.

The alternative is for the inventor to try to keep secret the details of the invention, exploiting it for his own benefit for as long as possible - until others succeed in reverse engineering it.

It's not clear to me which alternative is superior in this case.

[unlucky]

Re: Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

Brace yourself, this is but the beginning. At any given point, mankind's technological grasp almost always exceeds his intellectual, moral, and ethical reach. Up until now, one might argue, it has been mostly advantageous overall. It will probably continue to be advantageous ... until it isn't.

Rajiv, I share your concern.

You am play gods!

http://dresdencodak.com/2009/09/22/c...ience-fiction/

[flintlock]

Re: Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

Same here. Beware the law of unintended consequences.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

You can get a DNA synthesizer on eBay for 2K

I'm no expert on this matter, but I'd be quite surprised if this DNA synthesizer was sufficient to enable someone to construct a living, self-replicating cell with entirely computer specified genetics (albeit genetics obtained by copying and modifying that of some known living cell.)

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

Why does it have to be 'entirely' computer generated? They did that to prove it was possible. For the purpose of modifying an already virulent microbe, I suspect it would be necessary to change one aspect of it rather than recreate the entire thing.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

Why does it have to be 'entirely' computer generated? They did that to prove it was possible. For the purpose of modifying an already virulent microbe, I suspect it would be necessary to change one aspect of it rather than recreate the entire thing.

Dangerous biowarfare does not have to be "entirely" computer generated; indeed, the most dangerous stuff at present is not so.

I was responding to the concern that this new, entirely computer generated synthetic lifeform was some new escalation of danger. Perhaps, eventually, but not anytime in the next few years.

[Guinnesstime]

Re: Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

What has me very worried is this guys interet in patents. Privatising this kind of technology is just crazy, my mind goes to all sorts of horrible places thinking about the kind of power that certain individuals will have over the conditons and choices available to the rest of us.

What do you think Monsanto does?

[Guinnesstime]

Re: Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

Remember even though a lot of you are afraid of new bacteria to wipe out human civilization from this technology, scientist have already created the first synthetic viruses. If you can learn to create it you can learn how to disassemble it as well.

[marvenger]

Re: Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

sociopaths appeal to libertarian ideology in order to exploit it. No the sociopaths in power are not libertarians. You need rules against power. If you know how to do this other than government please let me know. otherwise libertarian theory of self-interest leading harmony turns decidedly orwellian in the hands of these guys.

[c1ue]

Re: Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

This entire thing is a publicity stunt by Venter - much as his human genome project was a publicity stunt.

Reconstructing an existing bacteria's genome through DNA synthesis is no more creating true artificial life than replicating a Pentium 4 computer via reassembling various ICs, motherboards, and circuit board components.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/201...etic-life-form

As described today in the journal Science, the study scientists constructed the genome of the bacterium Mycoplasma mycoides from more than 1,000 sections of preassembled units of DNA. Researchers then transplanted the artificially assembled genome into a M. capricolum cell that had been emptied of its own genome. Once the DNA "booted up," the bacteria began to function and reproduce in the same manner as naturally occurring M. mycoides.
"It's a culmination of a series of impressive steps," Ron Weiss, an associate professor of biological engineering at MIT who was not associated with the study, told LiveScience.com. "If you look over the last few years, at what they've been able to produce, it's definitely impressive. Being able to create genomes of this scale? That's impressive."
To boot up, the DNA utilized elements of the M. capricolum recipient cells, according to study team member Carole Lartigue of the Venter Institute. The bacterial cells still contained certain "machinery" that let them carry out the process of expressing a gene, or taking the genetic code and using it to build proteins – called transcription. When the artificial genome entered the cell, the cellular machines that run DNA transcription recognized the DNA, and began doing their job, Lartigue said.
"This cell's lineage is the computer, it's not any other genetic code," said Daniel Gibson, lead author of the Science paper, also of Venter Institute.
To create the genomes, Gibson and his colleagues used yeast to glue together thousands of DNA snippets, each containing 1,080 base pairs, which they ordered from another lab. To assist in assembly, each section of DNA contained 80 base pairs at every end that instructed the yeast where to join the two strands.

So in other words - the team didn't design the genome.

They didn't create any of the steps to translate said genome into actual cellular activity.

They didn't do squat except the genetic engineering equivalent of the cuckoo's trick: to lay an egg onto an unsuspecting host - the egg being assembled by hand to a blueprint provided by evolution. The only reason they aren't getting their asses sued off is that there isn't anyone to assert the 'first creator' rights of Nature outside of the religious extremists.

Those who are concerned about this approach being used to patent existing genetic capabiliies are completely correct - this is purely a legalistic stunt to enable patent control over something created by Nature.

The next step - talked about extensively in science fiction - is the modification or artificial assembly of DNA such that anything from microbes to humans can be called 'artificial' and thus ownable/controllable.

[marvenger]

Re: Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

Those who are concerned about this approach being used to patent existing genetic capabiliies are completely correct - this is purely a legalistic stunt to enable patent control over something created by Nature.

The next step - talked about extensively in science fiction - is the modification or artificial assembly of DNA such that anything from microbes to humans can be called 'artificial' and thus ownable/controllable.

Its already happened with Monsanto and their seeds, you make one small modification and claim thousands of years of breeding by our common decendants as private property and force payment for seed for each years crop. This whole idea of self-interest and libertarianism is completely bankrupt unless you aim to be an oligarch C. And please don't take that as being a black and white with us or against us statement. Private interests are important too. Its a balancing act. There no one neat intellectual theory to answer to everything.

[c1ue]

Re: Synthetic lifeform created for first time-amazing.

Its already happened with Monsanto and their seeds, you make one small modification and claim thousands of years of breeding by our common decendants as private property and force payment for seed for each years crop. This whole idea of self-interest and libertarianism is completely bankrupt unless you aim to be an oligarch C.

True, but a GMO seed is very different than say, a GMO human. Furthermore the GMO as practiced by Monsanto is the insertion of genes into an existing 'natural' genome. As such, only the specific modified version is patentable - and even then a well funded effort could insert the gene in a different spot.

Genetic slavery is a concept based on an 'artificial human' - fully 'created'.

As a property as opposed to a person, much more is possible.

We are still years if not decades away from that, but this theoretical possibility has now been shown to be practical by Venter.

But ultimately the issue isn't Venter and his stunts; it is the screwed up patent system based on concepts hundreds of years old.

From a safety standpoint - I am both less and more concerned.

The practice Monsanto uses is much more likely to create a viable alternative, thus something which is both malevolent/harmful and viable is possible.

The Venter practice, on the other hand, is light years away from creating truly new and radically differently capable living organisms. The full millions/billions of years of evolutionary testing greatly prejudices survival against 'custom' critters.

If we cannot get the bugs out of something as straightforward as an operating system, I suspect we are even further away from being able to 'compile' new living organisms.