ATM machine that dispenses gold bars is unveiled

[tmicou]

Is this a sign?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&h...&v=EClrSJqy92k

[reggie]

Re: ATM machine that dispenses gold bars is unveiled

Is this a sign?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&h...&v=EClrSJqy92k

Does anyone here know why RAND Corporation developed the first ATM?

P.S. This is not a trick question.

[don]

Re: ATM machine that dispenses gold bars is unveiled

Cynthia Norton might know

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: ATM machine that dispenses gold bars is unveiled

Does anyone here know why RAND Corporation developed the first ATM?

Is it possible that RAND invented Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM) packet switching, but not the Automated Teller Machine (ATM)?

[reggie]

Re: ATM machine that dispenses gold bars is unveiled

Cynthia Norton might know

Yes, she would. That was quite an extraordinary catch on your part.

While I'm also sure RAND played some role in Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM) packet switching, my query actually referred to the Automated Teller Machine (ATM).

Okay, here's a hint. RAND developed the first Automated Teller Machine for DARPA. Now, why would DARPA want to develop ATM's?

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: ATM machine that dispenses gold bars is unveiled

Okay, here's a hint. RAND developed the first Automated Teller Machine for DARPA. Now, why would DARPA want to develop ATM's?

But when I search for who invented the atm, I get no mention of RAND or DARPA. I get quite a different history.

[reggie]

Re: ATM machine that dispenses gold bars is unveiled

But when I search for who invented the atm, I get no mention of RAND or DARPA. I get quite a different history.

Well, I've never searched online for this information. But it doesn't surprise me at all that there are no references, as it's not for public consumption.

DARPA's requirement was to develop a system that surreptitiously monitored an individual's location across the globe. RAND's answer was the ATM. (remember, this was well before cell phone tower triangulation and wide-spread civilian use of GPS tracking systems).

So, this leaves me to wonder what this Gold ATM is really about.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: ATM machine that dispenses gold bars is unveiled

DARPA's requirement was to develop a system that surreptitiously monitored an individual's location across the globe.

So the publicly documented history of the ATM machine is wrong, and it was invented by RAND for DARPA instead? How do these two versions of history (the public ATM history and your RAND/DARPA history) integrate? What's the correct, combined history? Have you any evidence for the RAND/DARPA creation of the ATM machine?

[reggie]

Re: ATM machine that dispenses gold bars is unveiled

So the publicly documented history of the ATM machine is wrong, and it was invented by RAND for DARPA instead? How do these two versions of history (the public ATM history and your RAND/DARPA history) integrate? What's the correct, combined history? Have you any evidence for the RAND/DARPA creation of the ATM machine?

I'm sorry, I am not aware of any source or reference that I can point someone to that confirms what I am saying.

As far as what is correct, it is not unusual at all that society changing high-tech projects emanate from Pentagon controlled think tanks, but yet the tech is launched publicly for a different stated reason by a "private" company unaffiliated with the military industrial complex.

[Fiat Currency]

Re: ATM machine that dispenses gold bars is unveiled

Is it possible that RAND invented Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM) packet switching, but not the Automated Teller Machine (ATM)?

My understanding is that who invented BOTH ATM ($ machine) and ATM (packet switching) are under dispute.

However, I can add that one of the ATM (packet) guys (Paul Baran) was from RAND. I see all this a little differently through my tired old eyes.

Most of us know some of the DARPA/ARPANET story. Once the basics of TCP & "OSI-like" communications were figured out - there we many "branch outs" from there. A lot of early military work became about "location" services and I did some work on the "Subs & Satellites" team. Services to secure facilities were done through "leased lines" and things like "secure terminals & access" sprouted up. Transferring money electronically & securely became another focus.

(Side note) Did you know that ATMs were used to control "computing horsepower" at proper loads. Nobody thinks about lining up at an ATM machine for 5 minutes ... but if the access was really slow you'd be mad. Just limit the numbers of ATMs ;-)

Let's just hope that "controlling the Internet" isn't on their list next.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: ATM machine that dispenses gold bars is unveiled

I'm sorry, I am not aware of any source or reference that I can point someone to that confirms what I am saying.

So ... you have no specifics, no dates, no names of persons, no references, no comments on the public history of ATM's, ... just a claim that it was entirely different, without so much as any explanation of what part of the public history is or might be still actually valid or how the public history relates to your claimed RAND/DARPA history of ATM's.

I'm more fond of conspiracy theories than most folks around here ... but you've failed to meet even my low threshold of convincing evidence.

A good conspiracy has a raft of details; this one is a tad short on that metric.

[reggie]

Re: ATM machine that dispenses gold bars is unveiled

So ... you have no specifics, no dates, no names of persons, no references, no comments on the public history of ATM's, ... just a claim that it was entirely different, without so much as any explanation of what part of the public history is or might be still actually valid or how the public history relates to your claimed RAND/DARPA history of ATM's.

I'm more fond of conspiracy theories than most folks around here ... but you've failed to meet even my low threshold of convincing evidence.

A good conspiracy has a raft of details; this one is a tad short on that metric.

No, conspiracy theories meant for public consumption have a raft of tidbits for people to sink their teeth in to and to waste time on. Real black programs leave no trail, just elements of cover and deception that lead one to irrelevant thought and nonsensical conclusions.

What this does provide, however, is explanation of motive that is highly rational and reasonable and totally in alignment with other stated goals.

I won't say anymore on this topic.

[reggie]

Re: ATM machine that dispenses gold bars is unveiled

Let's just hope that "controlling the Internet" isn't on their list next.

I think you will find "The Future Does Not Compute", by Stephen Talbott, of great interest. It is freely available online.

You may also find Steve Blank's book and presentation on the secret history of Silicon Valley of interest.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: ATM machine that dispenses gold bars is unveiled

Let's just hope that "controlling the Internet" isn't on their list next.

I notice that Google came out of Stanford, just as did many earlier Defense and Intelligence supported projects, back to the 1950's (as documented by Steve Blank, in the links reggie provides.)

Steve Blanks's office was just down the hall from mine, at Convergent Technologies for a while in the mid-1980's. By that time, he was VP Marketing or some such and I was pure geek, so I never did talk with him much. Little did I realize then that over a decade earlier in the early 1970's, Steve and I were a few hundred miles apart, both working on fancy military electronics, in Thailand and South Vietnam.

Back to Google -- I can well imagine that Google's grasp of what is happening on the Internet would be of considerable interest to some three-letter agencies headquartered on the East Coast near Washington, DC.

Later in my career, I spent 20 years at Silicon Graphics (SGI), also started from Stanford. Some of SGI's most important customers, first for high end graphics workstations and then for high end multiprocessors, were U.S. military and intelligence. A major source of revenue for SGI for a few years was renting out it's fancy new headquarters building, which it could no longer afford, to Google -- the buildings now known as the Googleplex.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: ATM machine that dispenses gold bars is unveiled

I think you will find "The Future Does Not Compute", by Stephen Talbott, of great interest. It is freely available online.

This work has a far darker view of the impact of computers and the Internet on humanity than I have. I will confess that I was unable to get far in it. I am more comfortable with the positive view of the Internet such as found on TheDailyBell.com. Even such things as Google and Facebook (and even ATM machines ;)) are two edged swords in my view. One might speculate that these each have some origins in military intelligence, as we know for certain the TCP/IP Internet backbone itself does, but even if they do, they have both positive and negative (not simply neutral) ramifications, just as do many inventions done partially for military use in earlier times.