The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

The other major source of postings is your defending of potential MIC involvement in the ATM.

I thought reggie was condemning RAND/DARPA for the involvement he stated they had in invention of the Automated Teller Machine, not defending that involvement. Since reggie has chosen to put that discussion aside, I guess we'll never know.

[reggie]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

You are welcome to ignore Ames just as you are welcome to ignore any other tale.

What I find hugely interesting is how your focus on 'agit prop' seems to primarily extend to this article. Why is Ames so much different than any of the much more obvious misinformation feedgood stuff posted on iTulip and elsewhere?

A glance at your posting record shows a clear focus on specific subjects. How interesting:

http://www.itulip.com/forums/search.php?searchid=46098

The other major source of postings is your defending of potential MIC involvement in the ATM. Hmm :rolleyes:

I'm not ignoring Ames, I'm exposing his article. I'm sure over time, as I post here more often, I'll expose other propaganda from other sources as well. Ames article was just so blatantly obvious that I could not resist pointing it out. I'm actually kind of surprised that the others can't see it and are actually emotionally attached to him.

I'm not sure what my posts in another thread have to do with this thread. I'm sure I've posted here about a variety of topics in my 90+ posts so far. I certainly haven't analyzed the content that I've posted about.

The fact of the matter is that until you actually read and study propaganda techniques, you'll continue to misjudge narratives and those that communicate them. In this day where understanding the world is critical to ones survival, I would think that real research into propaganda formation is essential. Simply throwing out buzz-words like "agit-prop" isn't really helpful when the other side understands your brain physiology and how you process information, and then employs techniques designed to leverage your physiology.

Social Reality Construction is a fascinating field of study. Start here, as this will frame the concepts for you.

[reggie]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

I thought reggie was condemning RAND/DARPA for the involvement he stated they had in invention of the Automated Teller Machine, not defending that involvement. Since reggie has chosen to put that discussion aside, I guess we'll never know.

I will respond since this issue has been raised in this thread, even though it is off-topic.

To be clear, I was merely pointing out an unknown in the other referenced thread. I was making no value judgment in that thread, and I am making no value or moral judgment in this thread. I am merely passing-on my perception of reality, which I can guarantee you will be quite different than what you are exposed to elsewhere. Do with it whatever you like.

[c1ue]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

I also had in mind your global warming discussions. There I agree with your position, though I have been far less persistent than you have in pursuing the discussion. I thought you might take my previous remark in good humor, but I see it's best at this point if I wish you well and lay this sub-thread aside. Take care, c1ue.

I am a humorless bastard. Everyone knows that!

I'm not ignoring Ames, I'm exposing his article.

So you know nothing of him or his background, it is just the article struck you as agit-prop.

Full circle: I said in the very beginning that Ames had zero history of being a tool of the establishment either in employment, mentality, or background.

Furthermore I've repeatedly noted that the lesson to be drawn isn't that the FIRE banksters and FIRE lapdog politicians are like the 'nihilist' necessarily, but that present circumstances may well be due to cowardice or pragmatism as opposed to malice.

Why does this matter? Because cowardice and/or pragmatism doesn't preclude a very very bad end and ultimately effectively resembles malice.

[dropthatcash]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

They shouldn't allow 2nd graders near computers. Their isn't any money "in" the stock market. Never has been, never will be. Therefore, people can't pull money out and generate a collapse. I'd drive me nuts in the bubble of 1999 to listen to the same dullards at CNBC claiming how much mutual fund money was sitting on the sidelines waiting to propel the market ever higher. Does anyone reading this actually think they have money "in" the market? If you bought a bushel of tomatoes would you claim you're money is "in" the tomatoes or in the farmers pocket.

[aaron]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

Social Reality Construction is a fascinating field of study. Start here, as this will frame the concepts for you.

Can you recommend any books?

Thanks

[reggie]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

So you know nothing of him or his background, it is just the article struck you as agit-prop.

Someone who has not been trained to write propaganda does not write articles using the techniques employed in that article. If he's been trained, and he's using that training in his content, then he's writing for the benefit of certain actors. In this case, the psychology of the piece was written to push readers to a specified conclusion, which is to the benefit of those currently running the system.

Full circle: I said in the very beginning that Ames had zero history of being a tool of the establishment either in employment, mentality, or background.

With all due respect, you clearly do not have the knowledge to make this assessment. You are quite capable of acquiring that knowledge, however. Just invest some time in this area, as I've suggested. For example, do you understand why fear is employed in this piece, why it is put where it is, and how that impacts a reader's processing of the messaging subsequent to it.

Furthermore I've repeatedly noted that the lesson to be drawn isn't that the FIRE banksters and FIRE lapdog politicians are like the 'nihilist' necessarily, but that present circumstances may well be due to cowardice or pragmatism as opposed to malice.

Why does this matter? Because cowardice and/or pragmatism doesn't preclude a very very bad end and ultimately effectively resembles malice.

Malice is an irrelevant concept here. This is about elite thinking and reality creation, which are entirely different paradigms altogether.

[reggie]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

Can you recommend any books?

Thanks

Daniel Goleman has written some introductory material on the matter. He also has some video online, including some talks at GoogleTalks. I believe his book, Simple Truths Vital Lies can be downloaded at:

http://www.archive.org/details/Vital...Self-deception

Definitely check out his GoogleTalks. I think you'll be horrified at how he defines "Emotional Intelligence". He does, however, explain how an Amygdala Hijack impacts your brain and your ability to process information. You can deduce from that why fear is such an instrumental part of almost all propaganda pieces.

There's also work done by Luckman and Berger on the topic, I believe the were some of the original work. But their material is quite dense.

Bernays and Ellul have both written books with "Propaganda" in the title. Of course, Bernays (Sigmund Freud's nephew) was the one that really brought the craft to American elite early last century. Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's Minister of Propaganda, is also an interesting source for understanding the techniques that are still employed today. You can find Goebbels work online.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

They shouldn't allow 2nd graders near computers. Their isn't any money "in" the stock market. Never has been, never will be. Therefore, people can't pull money out and generate a collapse.

That you can find a way to interpret someone else's utterances as nonsense doesn't mean that those utterances are unavoidably nonsense. Usually it means instead that you have some reason to seek that which you can interpret as nonsense. Usually a more sympathetic listening will find a more sensible meaning to the utterances of others, which meaning might still not be right, but which might at least more worthy of your dissent.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

I think you'll be horrified at how he defines "Emotional Intelligence".

Oh dear - I must be dense or something. I wasn't horrified. What did I fail to understand?

[flintlock]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

While certainly the modern US military is a far cry from the 'conscript' US military of the Vietnam era, nonetheless I don't agree that pure money is sufficient for soldiers to fire on their communities and neighbors.

The Tsars used Cossacks not because they didn't have troops, but because even the huge gap between social classes was not enough to compel large numbers of troops to oppress their fellow peasants. The Cossacks, being from far away and different ethnicity, had no such problem.

A soldier making a living serving his country can easily justify shooting a 'terrorist' or an enemy 'combatant'. How easy is it to justify shooting people who are rioting because of the social and financial injustices you yourself have experienced?

Perhaps those who have served/are serving can comment.

I didn't mean to imply US troops would necessarily be firing on US civilians. Rather that they would not become an instrument of any revolution like the Red Army was in Russia. We won't see men like this general in Thailand http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...iya-sawasdipol putting their ass on the line AGAINST the government.

Khattiya was reassigned as an aerobics teacher ^[4] by Gen. Anupong Paochinda, Thai Army commander. Khattiya responded by saying, "The army chief wants me to be a presenter leading aerobics dancers. I have prepared one dance. It's called the 'throwing-a-hand-grenade' dance."

[c1ue]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

Rather that they would not become an instrument of any revolution like the Red Army was in Russia.

Please clarify that statement.

The Red Army wasn't formed until after the revolution, and its primary role wasn't suppression of the masses so much as fighting the Mensheviks and ethnic secessionists/patriots.

Furthermore its primary role was national defense; vigilance of citizen behavior/anti-revolutionary sentiment was the province of the KGB and its many previous names (Cheka, OGPU, MVD, etc etc).

Perhaps to be more clear: if 'revolutionary sentiment' arises to the point of active resistance in the US - what do you think will be used to counter it if not the US military?

[reggie]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

Oh dear - I must be dense or something. I wasn't horrified. What did I fail to understand?

He is equating intelligence with ones ability to mute the signal to the cerebral cortex sent by the Amygdala. As he acknowledges,the Amygdala is a tool that humanity relies upon for survival. It sends flight of fight signals in order to maintain our safety, even in a business setting where there may be no physical danger present. Further, it acts as an internal moral compass, reacting to behavior through the concept of emotion.

By linking a positive reward, through the use of socially approved labels (e.g. "high emotional intelligence"), he is attempting to employ peer pressure to promote more Amygdala suppression. But this not the trait of a more intelligent being, as he tries to sell the audience, these are sociopathic traits, where the individual does not process their actions through the brain's emotional filters and therefore discounts the "gut check" on our behavior.

The guys wants his audience to turn into automatons, afraid to employ humanity's normal physiology in fear of negative social pressure.

[bpr]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

He is equating intelligence with ones ability to mute the signal to the cerebral cortex sent by the Amygdala. As he acknowledges,the Amygdala is a tool that humanity relies upon for survival. It sends flight of fight signals in order to maintain our safety, even in a business setting where there may be no physical danger present. Further, it acts as an internal moral compass, reacting to behavior through the concept of emotion.

By linking a positive reward, through the use of socially approved labels (e.g. "high emotional intelligence"), he is attempting to employ peer pressure to promote more Amygdala suppression. But this not the trait of a more intelligent being, as he tries to sell the audience, these are sociopathic traits, where the individual does not process their actions through the brain's emotional filters and therefore discounts the "gut check" on our behavior.

The guys wants his audience to turn into automatons, afraid to employ humanity's normal physiology in fear of negative social pressure.

I'm going to have to look into this guy.

It's only tangentially related, but this is all tied very nicely to this week's reports on a University of Toronto study on childhood lying.

Some of the headlines are very disturbing:
When being Pinocchio can make you a CEO

Child liars will become high-flyers

For kids, telling lies a sign of future success?

The WSJ Article
Link to at least 50 other news articles

Children are notoriously unreliable as witnesses in a courtroom, for example, but this study seems to champion lying habits as advanced cognitive abilities.

The play writes itself:
Father: My son said what?
Officer: He told his teacher you thought the President was an infidel and you wanted to kill him.
Father: That's insane.
Mother: No, Honey, he's lying, it's a good sign. We should encourage it!
Officer: We're going to have to take you away.
Father: But I didn't say that!
Mother: It's just a stage, Honey, and it means he's destined for greatness. He might be a CEO someday!
Father: But I have to be arrested?
Mother: It's just for a short time, and I'll take good care of him.
Officer: Uh, no, that won't be happening.
Mother: What do you mean?
Officer: He said you agree with your husband. And treason is a capital offense.

Curtain, in stars and stripes.

[reggie]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

I'm going to have to look into this guy.

It's only tangentially related, but this is all tied very nicely to this week's reports on a University of Toronto study on childhood lying.

Some of the headlines are very disturbing:
When being Pinocchio can make you a CEO

Child liars will become high-flyers

For kids, telling lies a sign of future success?

The WSJ Article
Link to at least 50 other news articles

Children are notoriously unreliable as witnesses in a courtroom, for example, but this study seems to champion lying habits as advanced cognitive abilities.

The play writes itself:
Father: My son said what?
Officer: He told his teacher you thought the President was an infidel and you wanted to kill him.
Father: That's insane.
Mother: No, Honey, he's lying, it's a good sign. We should encourage it!
Officer: We're going to have to take you away.
Father: But I didn't say that!
Mother: It's just a stage, Honey, and it means he's destined for greatness. He might be a CEO someday!
Father: But I have to be arrested?
Mother: It's just for a short time, and I'll take good care of him.
Officer: Uh, no, that won't be happening.
Mother: What do you mean?
Officer: He said you agree with your husband. And treason is a capital offense.

Curtain, in stars and stripes.

Yup, sociopathic behavior is just soooo malleable. But now we have some scientific understanding of the techniques and how they fit into society's goals.