The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

Are you saying the MIC is now able to actually form an extra-national sovereign entity? And what would that be?

What's "MIC" ? I can't say if MIC can do this, not knowing who MIC is.

I also wouldn't necessarily call it "sovereign", as that suggests "independent, not controlled by outside forces", and that's not the case.

But yes, extra-national. I am referring to the Anglo-American financial oligarchs. They are manifest via such as the BIS, G20, IMF, CFR, and Trilateral Commission. They are the powerful and wealthy who control the world's largest commercial and central banks, and via their control of debt issuance, thereby have (not complete, but) substantial control over most of the world's governments and corporations.

See the thread on Damon Vrabel. He provides a better description of this than I can.

[cjppjc]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

.

There are myriad ways it could have been used well, and even more ways it could have been used better if not well - such as the Finster $100,000 check to every single person in America.

I don't want to nitpick here, but would that amount to somewhere around 20 trillion or so.

[reggie]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

And what is he exactly?

An angry, embittered progressive liberal in a world of Republikrats?

Oh wait, that is exactly what he's always been.

A propagandist, that's all.

Ames is here to target a specific market and sell highly tailored 'narratives' to that market.

No one at that level takes political divisions like "embittered progressive liberal" and "Republikrats" seriously, these are manufactured dialectical divisions for the public.

His article follows a certain psychological signature of DC manufactured propaganda, and his response reveals the anger of someone who's work has been exposed. Is this guy a 2-fisted drinker? That, or drugs, is usually how they cope.

Propaganda is aimed at all markets, and delivered by all kinds of fronts.

[reggie]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

What's "MIC" ? I can't say if MIC can do this, not knowing who MIC is.

MIC = Military Industrial Complex

[c1ue]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

What's "MIC" ? I can't say if MIC can do this, not knowing who MIC is.

I also wouldn't necessarily call it "sovereign", as that suggests "independent, not controlled by outside forces", and that's not the case.

But yes, extra-national. I am referring to the Anglo-American financial oligarchs. They are manifest via such as the BIS, G20, IMF, CFR, and Trilateral Commission. They are the powerful and wealthy who control the world's largest commercial and central banks, and via their control of debt issuance, thereby have (not complete, but) substantial control over most of the world's governments and corporations.

Reggie has already noted what MIC stands for, but the sovereign nation is relevant because the New World Order doesn't control any armies.

As Mao, Lenin, The Committee of Public Safety, the Revolutions of 1848, etc etc as well as feudal examples from Charlemagne onwards to Hitler show, controlling money is not the same as control.

The bankers need a compliant sovereign nation to house their wealth and protect them from the angry mob of peasants.

Can the US be such an entity if it is reduced to 90% angry peasants? Not clear to me.

Having a 'volunteer' military is not conducive to domestic oppression.

Ames is here to target a specific market and sell highly tailored 'narratives' to that market.

No one at that level takes political divisions like "embittered progressive liberal" and "Republikrats" seriously, these are manufactured dialectical divisions for the public.

You continue to paint Ames' as some type of New World Order agit-propagandist.

And again, if indeed the perspective he puts forward in 'nihilist' were truly dangerous, so too would a real agit-propagandist respond.

So unless you can demonstrate a historical slant supporting your statement such as can be found with Krugman, your opinion is without merit to me.

[reggie]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

You continue to paint Ames' as some type of New World Order agit-propagandist.

And again, if indeed the perspective he puts forward in 'nihilist' were truly dangerous, so too would a real agit-propagandist respond.

So unless you can demonstrate a historical slant supporting your statement such as can be found with Krugman, your opinion is without merit to me.

The piece stands on its own merits as propaganda. No other evidence is necessary. The way the piece attempts to create an Amygdala Hijack, then under that condition, sends the reader into limited dialectical choice, then drives them to the preferred option... these are all signs of certain training and techniques that are based upon brain biology and its response to various inputs.

What is interesting here is that you are able to identify a propagandist who is obviously outside your socio-political frame, but one who is designed for your frame is undetectable. Stepping outside the sheeple-box means being able to identify the techniques across the entire propaganda spectrum, not just those outside ones psychological frame.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

Reggie has already noted what MIC stands for, but the sovereign nation is relevant because the New World Order doesn't control any armies.

As Mao, Lenin, The Committee of Public Safety, the Revolutions of 1848, etc etc as well as feudal examples from Charlemagne onwards to Hitler show, controlling money is not the same as control.

The bankers need a compliant sovereign nation to house their wealth and protect them from the angry mob of peasants.

Can the US be such an entity if it is reduced to 90% angry peasants? Not clear to me.

Having a 'volunteer' military is not conducive to domestic oppression.

The bankers control nations and they control the mass propaganda needed to control nations politicians and armies. Most of the U.S. military might is contracted, not "volunteer." With the high unemployment and limited prospects for many young men of today, even much of the "volunteer" army is essentially contracted ... just at low cost.

So, no, I wouldn't say that the Military-Industrial Complex (MIC) is forming an extra-national sovereign entity. The top of the food chain here is wealth, not nation states, not their armies, not sovereign powers. The world's political, economic and monetary systems have become addicted to debt-based money. An essential power is that of creating more such "money" at no cost to the creating Banksters, to further the debt enslavement of the rest of us. The U.S. Congress, President, Administration, top Courts, Military, Intelligence, most state governments, mainstream media, top universities, major corporations, premier research foundations and other major institutions are all largely subservient to the originators of this debt-fueled money. Most other nations (God bless Iceland) are similarly addicted to this crack money. Debt is the new crack cocaine habit. Our crack dealer owns us.

The British empire, then the American empire, were the base host for this disease. For some time, we Americans have thought we were "special", we were that shining beacon of freedom on the hilltop. Soon we Americans will find that we're just a bigger Greece. I'm afraid our rioters will be more interested in looting big screen TVs and cases of beer than they will be in rebelling against the Banksters.

That 90% of Americans are angry won't matter, unless they are united in their anger against the financial oligarchs. There is little chance of that, I'm afraid. We'll be shouting names at each other. Perhaps even Goldman Sachs will be thrown as a scrap of meat to the mad dogs of public anger (but only after Paulson, Blankfein and any other well placed Goldmanites have made their escape.) Until and unless JPMorgan Chase falls and its top officers are behind bars, the financial oligarchs are still dominating. I'm not saying that JPMorgan is the ultimate power, but rather that they are the closest institution to the power center that's ordinarily visible.

[reggie]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

1 I'm afraid our rioters will be more interested in looting big screen TVs and cases of beer than they will be in rebelling against the Banksters.

The "rioters", at least the instigators, will be organized and paid, just like in Seattle.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

The piece stands on its own merits as propaganda. No other evidence is necessary.

Other such evidence is necessary to c1ue ;). In case you haven't noticed yet, c1ue's persistence in presenting evidence supporting his view while dismissing as insufficient evidence to the contrary, is legendary around these parts.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

The "rioters", at least the instigators, will be organized and paid, just like in Seattle.

True. Someone else noted earlier today here on iTulip that the same is happening in Bangkok, claiming rioters were being paid good money for their efforts.

[reggie]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

True. Someone else noted earlier today here on iTulip that the same is happening in Bangkok, claiming rioters were being paid good money for their efforts.

Of course they are. Marx learned a long time ago that the sheeple won't revolt. Theodor Adorno & Max Horkheimer wrote entire papers about this predicament: how to get revolution and "change" when the public won't revolt. I guess we're "All Too Human" as Nietzsche might say. Anyway, Adorno and Horheimer found that "victim groups" would have to be created in order to create opposition and the impression of revolt. One example of a "victim group" is the Gloria Steinham-led feminist movement. So yes, the Thai activity is most definitely sponsored.

What's key here, and what C1ue (and many others) don't seem to understand, is that all spectrum's within the propaganda sphere much be controlled, for this is the only way to control the narrative. One can't control one-side of the narrative and still control the narrative, at least not without significant risk to the narrative itself.

[flintlock]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

Most of the U.S. military might is contracted, not "volunteer." With the high unemployment and limited prospects for many young men of today, even much of the "volunteer" army is essentially contracted ... just at low cost.

Correct. And I'd add that today's US military is quite highly paid in historical terms. These are not your basic $13 month recruits of Civil War days. Factor in all the benefits and the pay is well above a minimum wage equivalent. There is a whole different dynamic when soldiers are paid enough to actually live on vs the days when a soldier's pay was merely intended to give him some pocket money to spend on the odd occasion he found himself in some garrison town with time on his hands. A soldier with enough money to even consider marrying used to be the exception. So I hesitate to compare historical examples of Armies to our modern professional one. It was easy for revolutionaries to control the Red Army when they were paid little to nothing. Controlling the loyalties of our "volunteer" professional military will be something completely different. Something more akin to a mercenary though I hesitate to go as far as labeling them such. You could make the same argument about the paramilitary police forces we have today. These are middle class people. Not easily led peasants. They have something to lose. The powers that be know exactly what they are doing . They are not going to short change their " muscle".

[c1ue]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

Other such evidence is necessary to c1ue ;). In case you haven't noticed yet, c1ue's persistence in presenting evidence supporting his view while dismissing as insufficient evidence to the contrary, is legendary around these parts.

Your persistence is admirable, but I've already gone through a very lengthy exercise looking at the evidence you presented on 'nano-thermite'.

And frankly it was lacking.

Not that 'nano-thermite' couldn't possibly have happened, but that its likelihood is predicated upon the impossibility of the WTC towers having collapsed due to official reasons (i.e. collision by jet liners full of aviation fuel).

I clearly showed that the official story is NOT impossible.

I then went on to examine any other possible bits of evidence - again, the myriad links you presented were all circumstantial and most were not the least bit compelling for someone without an existing conspiracy bent.

So you can continue sniping at me for not agreeing with you.

Your behavior is simply labelling yourself as childish.

What's key here, and what C1ue (and many others) don't seem to understand, is that all spectrum's within the propaganda sphere much be controlled, for this is the only way to control the narrative. One can't control one-side of the narrative and still control the narrative, at least not without significant risk to the narrative itself.

You are welcome to ignore Ames just as you are welcome to ignore any other tale.

What I find hugely interesting is how your focus on 'agit prop' seems to primarily extend to this article. Why is Ames so much different than any of the much more obvious misinformation feedgood stuff posted on iTulip and elsewhere?

A glance at your posting record shows a clear focus on specific subjects. How interesting:

http://www.itulip.com/forums/search.php?searchid=46098

The other major source of postings is your defending of potential MIC involvement in the ATM. Hmm :rolleyes:

Correct. And I'd add that today's US military is quite highly paid in historical terms. These are not your basic $13 month recruits of Civil War days. Factor in all the benefits and the pay is well above a minimum wage equivalent. There is a whole different dynamic when soldiers are paid enough to actually live on vs the days when a soldier's pay was merely intended to give him some pocket money to spend on the odd occasion he found himself in some garrison town with time on his hands. A soldier with enough money to even consider marrying used to be the exception. So I hesitate to compare historical examples of Armies to our modern professional one. It was easy for revolutionaries to control the Red Army when they were paid little to nothing. Controlling the loyalties of our "volunteer" professional military will be something completely different. Something more akin to a mercenary though I hesitate to go as far as labeling them such. You could make the same argument about the paramilitary police forces we have today. These are middle class people. Not easily led peasants. They have something to lose. The powers that be know exactly what they are doing . They are not going to short change their " muscle".

While certainly the modern US military is a far cry from the 'conscript' US military of the Vietnam era, nonetheless I don't agree that pure money is sufficient for soldiers to fire on their communities and neighbors.

The Tsars used Cossacks not because they didn't have troops, but because even the huge gap between social classes was not enough to compel large numbers of troops to oppress their fellow peasants. The Cossacks, being from far away and different ethnicity, had no such problem.

A soldier making a living serving his country can easily justify shooting a 'terrorist' or an enemy 'combatant'. How easy is it to justify shooting people who are rioting because of the social and financial injustices you yourself have experienced?

Perhaps those who have served/are serving can comment.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

nonetheless I don't agree that pure money is sufficient for soldiers to fire on their communities and neighbors.

I'll agree with that. Pay may help get soldiers to enlist, but it takes some good agit prop to get soldiers (and police swat teams) to initiate shooting of their fellow citizens.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

Your behavior is simply labelling yourself as childish.

I also had in mind your global warming discussions. There I agree with your position, though I have been far less persistent than you have in pursuing the discussion. I thought you might take my previous remark in good humor, but I see it's best at this point if I wish you well and lay this sub-thread aside. Take care, c1ue.