The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

[reggie]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

This line of reasoning does not take into account the systemic risk posed to society associated with the collapse in the rule of law and moral degradation, when people generally become aware of deep rooted corruption, and the inconsistency of the application of law, societal norms can and do break down, why follow the rules if you are aware of the hypocrisy, this type of breakdown in norms can be seen from the "statis" in Geek city states during the Peloponnesian wars to the fall of Rome to more modern times , as for the ideologue libertarians whiners et al , the nihilistic wall street types (I have the displeasure to meet more then a few who have this type of attitude) as portrayed in the above piece are the types to complain loudest if they are the one being robbed or wronged rather then the other way , it is ever so with people who's sense of self importance greatly outweighs their empathy, the only reason they can do what they do and live in a relatively civilized society is because the so called ideologues i.e. the majority have a sense of shame, justice, right and wrong. They had better hope the herd does not adopt the same attitude as they have, if so all should beware!!!

On the contrary, this is the only direction the article allows the reader to go, and this is precisely what is sought.

[Diarmuid]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

On the contrary, this is the only direction the article allows the reader to go, and this is precisely what is sought.

I was not making any assumptions on the motivation for the writing of the piece - I was pointing out what I saw as a fallacy of omission in the deductive reasoning provided in it and providing an alternative reasoning with said omission.

[Jay]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

And that dear Rajiv is the crux. This is the first 'actionable' bomb we must dismantle. The solution is simple, if they work with pennies to game the game tax them with two pennies to play. HFT can be eliminated over night by charging them 1% (or less) in and out of their shenanigans. Front running is a pox on society and distorts free markets. True capital stays for time/ reward. Front running buy/sell just shaves margin and steals from both buyer and seller. It is not investing. It certainly would be welcomed by both Main street and Business. Tax at source can never be avoided.

Frontrunning obviously is an issue, but don't program trades offer valuable liquidity at the same time?

[reggie]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

This line of reasoning does not take into account the systemic risk posed to society associated with the collapse in the rule of law and moral degradation, when people generally become aware of deep rooted corruption, and the inconsistency of the application of law, societal norms can and do break down, why follow the rules if you are aware of the hypocrisy, this type of breakdown in norms can be seen from the "statis" in Greek city states during the Peloponnesian wars to the fall of Rome to more modern times , as for the ideologue libertarians whiners et al , the nihilistic wall street types (I have the displeasure to meet more then a few who have this type of attitude) as portrayed in the above piece are the types to complain loudest if they are the one being robbed or wronged rather then the other way , it is ever so with people who's sense of self importance greatly outweighs their empathy, the only reason they can do what they do and live in a relatively civilized society is because the so called ideologues i.e. the majority have a sense of shame, justice, right and wrong. They had better hope the herd does not adopt the same attitude as they have, if so all should beware!!!

I was not making any assumptions on the motivation for the writing of the piece - I was pointing out what I saw as a fallacy of omission in the deductive reasoning provided in it and providing an alternative reasoning with said omission.

As the options (Option A & B) that I've identified earlier in thread depict, the logic within the article pushes the public to abandon law & order, irrespective of the option presented.

Of course, a lawless society, or even a society that acquiesces to lawlessness is complicit in said lawlessness, and therefore cannot occupy a moral high ground that would enable society to cease future lawlessness by power. Hence, this direction has advantages for power as long as the risks associated with this path are addressed.

"The systemic risk posed to society" by this direction has indeed been considered and responses have been in development for quite some time, albeit, they are not in the public eye. For recent projects, may I refer you to DHS's GIS project and IBM's Global Movement Management initiative, sponsored by their Center for the Business of Government.

[Diarmuid]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

may I refer you to DHS's GIS project and IBM's Global Movement Management initiative, sponsored by their Center for the Business of Government.

Thanks Reggie - food for thought

here is the location of the IBM's Global Movement Management initiative executive summary pdf for anyone interested

http://www-935.ibm.com/services/us/i...cntxt=a1000055

Extract

It provides the means for corporations to drive greater
harmonization in the global movement system, resulting in lower total costs
and higher overall performance. Finally, it also provides government and other
regulatory organizations with a means to improve security and resilience without
harming commercial interests. There is no doubt that achieving these goals is
a challenge with profound economic, human, technological and governmental
implications. We invite our readers to engage in this effort to strengthen
commerce, security and resiliency in today’s networked world.

reminded me of a recent quote from Noam Chomsky

Chomsky: There is much talk of Chinese money and it is speculated much from this fact about a power shift in the world. China could overtake the U.S.? I consider that question an expression of ideological extremism. The States are not the only actors on the world stage. To a certain extent they are important, but not absolutely. The actors, who dominate their respective States, are primarily economic: the banks and corporations. If we examine who controls the world and determines policy, we will refrain from stating a shift of world power and global workforce. China is the extreme example. These interactions occur between transnational corporations, financial institutions and the State insofar as it serves their interests. This is the only power shift, but it provides no headline.

[Rajiv]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

There was a discussion of high frequency trading here - Questions for the Commission

[globaleconomicollaps]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

i wrote to Ames and asked him to clarify. He responded in typical fashion:


From: amesexile@gmail.com [mailto:amesexile@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Mark Ames
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 17:08
To: David Wilson
Subject: Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

Pull your head out of your humorless ass--this is exactly why people have such a hard time going left. I can't help your reading comprehension, maybe is less confusing for you:

http://exiledonline.com/why-is-this-...-since-madoff/
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Global Economic Collapse wrote:


Dear Mark Ames,

I recently read your piece on the moral corruption of Wall Street. It certainly seemed to be polemic in support of a Moral Relativist take on the Goldman Sachs trial and more generally our entire system of government. Is that what you intended to say?

I have been following the debate here:
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...treet-Nihilist

and I cannot help but agree with c1ue, that there is more than meets the eye. Your entire corpus of work seems to militate against the idea that you think that Wall Street thugs should get away with the biggest fraud ever committed. Can you please clarify your thoughts for those of us too slow to get the humor or too literal minded to grasp the irony?

Regards,
-global economic collapse

[bart]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

Any idea why the public share volume (excluding program trading) (the red line) doubled (from ~1250 to ~2500) in late 2007, and has not come back down since?

There are also a couple of sharp spikes that look odd. In 2Q2009, the red line spikes down as the blue line spikes up. In 4Q2009, those two lines spike the other way. Any conspiratorial cow worth her salt would presume that these spikes are some artifact of mislabeling trades as program trading or not, rather than dramatic, but counter-balancing, shifts in trading volume.

I thought there was a change in definition of public share volume in 2007, but couldn't find any link to support my recall. I'm tempted to remove the red line since its not terribly germane to the overall record of program trading.

I view the matching spikes in 2Q2009 as evidence of a support operation, The small 4Q2009 one appears to me to be "buy the dip".

I should also mention that there was a massive change to the program trading data in 2006, and all the numbers were chopped literally in half.

[Prazak]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

Keep your 92-year-old grandfather away from the hospital, lest the poking, prodding, and adjusting cause his heart to arrest. Let the old man continue to drink his beer, smoke his pipe, and piss on his front lawn.

[bart]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

PC,

It appears that after 2006, program trading and public trading are mirror images. That does not appear to be the case before 2006. Bart? Any thoughts?

Only in tinfoil hat mode - prop and trading desks, having gotten away with so much basically criminal behavior in the prior years (and also finding that they were fighting each other), decided to shift their target much more towards the public... and its a helluva rabbit hole and much conjecture on my part too.

[aaron]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

Yes, when somebody does not understand the point of your essay... it is your fault. Arrogant prick. Write to be understood, otherwise you are just masturbating.

[FrankL]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

This is a false dichotomy: the elite can only have power with at least the acquiescence of the pubic. Because without at least acquiescence, you end up with revolution.

And again, I believe you fail to understand: the attitude illustrated is not intended to belittle the reformers, but to potentially convey a better understanding.

If it is wrong in your opinion, so be it.

As I have said, Ames has a long history of publishing unpleasant truths - about himself, political leaders, anything. Certainly he is one of the tree-hugger hippies noted, but again I fail to see how this article of him being 'put down' by a financial better (note I don't say social) is in any way a propaganda piece for anyone.



I do find it highly amusing that you would consider Brzezinski one of the 'adults' - he being one of the premier practitioners of realpolitik in our present time.

His actions, if not words, echo much more closely with the Nihilist than anything else.

I was wondering about this essay and your observation about revolution without acquiescence of the pubic. Please follow me in this thought experiment for a minute:

Suppose that, indeed, our current debt-based system is a ponzi where creditors cannot be paid off in full, unless we massively inflate away debts. The creditors of course don't want a sudden too big inflation but want extend and pretend as long as possible while extracting wealth (interest) from the debtors. Eventually they would want the debt to be brought back to a proportion that still gives the debtors the impression that they are able to pay it off (while they actually are at least able to keep paying interest on the debt). What the creditors most definitely don't want, is a default on massive scale or hyperinflation, as it will destroy their stream of income (interest).

Now this is where I start wondering: is what Obama is doing actually extending and pretending, or is he, knowingly or not knowling, complicit in the act of blowing up the debt-system by taking on so much debt that it no longer can be managed to the degree that the creditors want? When the system implodes, it shouldn't be too hard to point the finger at the people in the financial system as scapegoat for your revolution. Although Obama himself would also run a big risk of getting the blame when it blows up.

I more and more get the impression that this current system is not 'fixable', and the only way to get to a better system is to blow up this current system (and I do think it will destroy most 'perceived wealth' in the western world, as well as major creditor countries like Japan and China. The best way forward for blowing up the system would be to encourage people to leverage up on debt as much as possible, while taking on massive amounts of debts on a government level as well.

Then again, maybe all of the above is just a lunatic's rambling who has no clue at all about what is going on and how the financial system works...

[reggie]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

i wrote to Ames and asked him to clarify. He responded in typical fashion:


From: amesexile@gmail.com [mailto:amesexile@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Mark Ames
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 17:08
To: David Wilson
Subject: Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

Pull your head out of your humorless ass--this is exactly why people have such a hard time going left. I can't help your reading comprehension, maybe is less confusing for you:

http://exiledonline.com/why-is-this-...-since-madoff/
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Global Economic Collapse wrote:


Dear Mark Ames,

I recently read your piece on the moral corruption of Wall Street. It certainly seemed to be polemic in support of a Moral Relativist take on the Goldman Sachs trial and more generally our entire system of government. Is that what you intended to say?

I have been following the debate here:
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...treet-Nihilist

and I cannot help but agree with c1ue, that there is more than meets the eye. Your entire corpus of work seems to militate against the idea that you think that Wall Street thugs should get away with the biggest fraud ever committed. Can you please clarify your thoughts for those of us too slow to get the humor or too literal minded to grasp the irony?

Regards,
-global economic collapse

Ha, this post escaped me earlier. Well, at least Ames now knows that he's been outed for what he is. I've seen these same sorts of responses from Chris Hitchen, Alex Cockburn and the like when their manufactured Narratives get exposed for what they are. They ultimately illustrate what they are better than any outside analysis can.

Ultimately, their material follows standard operating techniques of psychology, so their fingerprints of this style become obvious.

You're welcome to forward this post to Ames as well. I'm sure he'll come back with some choice expletives. Welcome to the real world behind the curtain of the fake-left propagandists. Oh, I wish more could see how utterly bankrupt they are, it would blow your mind.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

Now this is where I start wondering: is what Obama is doing actually extending and pretending, or is he, knowingly or not knowing, complicit in the act of blowing up the debt-system by taking on so much debt that it no longer can be managed to the degree that the creditors want?

My take is that he (well, the puppet masters who pull his strings and who pulled the strings of all recent prior Presidents) are blowing up the U.S. debt system (federal, state, corporate and individual) so as to force it to submit to an even larger, world-wide, debt system. The Economic Hitman Comes to America.

[c1ue]

Re: The alternate view: Confessions of a Wall Street Nihilist

I was wondering about this essay and your observation about revolution without acquiescence of the pub[l]ic. Please follow me in this thought experiment for a minute:

Suppose that, indeed, our current debt-based system is a ponzi where creditors cannot be paid off in full, unless we massively inflate away debts. The creditors of course don't want a sudden too big inflation but want extend and pretend as long as possible while extracting wealth (interest) from the debtors. Eventually they would want the debt to be brought back to a proportion that still gives the debtors the impression that they are able to pay it off (while they actually are at least able to keep paying interest on the debt). What the creditors most definitely don't want, is a default on massive scale or hyperinflation, as it will destroy their stream of income (interest).

Now this is where I start wondering: is what Obama is doing actually extending and pretending, or is he, knowingly or not knowling, complicit in the act of blowing up the debt-system by taking on so much debt that it no longer can be managed to the degree that the creditors want? When the system implodes, it shouldn't be too hard to point the finger at the people in the financial system as scapegoat for your revolution. Although Obama himself would also run a big risk of getting the blame when it blows up.

I more and more get the impression that this current system is not 'fixable', and the only way to get to a better system is to blow up this current system (and I do think it will destroy most 'perceived wealth' in the western world, as well as major creditor countries like Japan and China. The best way forward for blowing up the system would be to encourage people to leverage up on debt as much as possible, while taking on massive amounts of debts on a government level as well.

Then again, maybe all of the above is just a lunatic's rambling who has no clue at all about what is going on and how the financial system works...

The point of 'nihilist' was that maybe there is no great forethought in the behavior being shown. It is pure survival instinct: rather than be forced to flee the country, why NOT just extend and pretend?

Complicit in this behavior on the part of the politicians, the bankers are simply doing what Dr. Michael Hudson says: getting all they can while they can. Before the big blowup comes, the bankers will have converted their funny money into real estate, factories, gold, and what not.

As for Obama, his role thus far in this entire mess is to put a pretty face onto a systematic plundering of ... well ... the system.

The trillions spent thus far still have yet to land on anyone but banksters.

The money could easily have been spent on any number of true relationary policies such as EJ's proposed alternative energy focus.

It could have been used for infrastructure building/rebuilding.

There are myriad ways it could have been used well, and even more ways it could have been used better if not well - such as the Finster $100,000 check to every single person in America.

From my point of view, the first and largest 'free pass' has been expended.

The second is being spent as we speak.

There will not be a third.

Ha, this post escaped me earlier. Well, at least Ames now knows that he's been outed for what he is. I've seen these same sorts of responses from Chris Hitchen, Alex Cockburn and the like when their manufactured Narratives get exposed for what they are. They ultimately illustrate what they are better than any outside analysis can.

And what is he exactly?

An angry, embittered progressive liberal in a world of Republikrats?

Oh wait, that is exactly what he's always been.

My take is that he (well, the puppet masters who pull his strings and who pulled the strings of all recent prior Presidents) are blowing up the U.S. debt system (federal, state, corporate and individual) so as to force it to submit to an even larger, world-wide, debt system. The Economic Hitman Comes to America.

That may be, but the economic hitmen before were doing their deeds for MIC + Corporate America.

Are you saying the MIC is now able to actually form an extra-national sovereign entity? And what would that be?