Greece has hit the fan; Big Kahuna #2 arrives

[*T*]

Greek 2y yields
(via macro man)


Update:
Papandreou asks for help from the vultures.

[sandwind]

Re: Greece has hit the fan; Big Kahuna #2 arrives

Wouldn't it be good for EURO if they would just let them go down ?
(This one is theoretical question I am sure they won't)

Greece is activating IMF-EU help.

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010...or-eu-imf-aid/

[GRG55]

Re: Greece has hit the fan; Big Kahuna #2 arrives

Wow. Anybody that bought Greek bonds in the recent auctions must be seriously underwater...

[shiny!]

Re: Greece has hit the fan; Big Kahuna #2 arrives

So who's next?

[Fiat Currency]

Re: Greece has hit the fan; Big Kahuna #2 arrives

So who's next?

All of them.

Get Well Soon.gif

[oddlots]

Re: Greece has hit the fan; Big Kahuna #2 arrives

Ed Harrison sees a parallel to Credit Anstalt in '31 which kicked off the depression proper:

ttp://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/04/the-greek-crisis-has-me-thinking-about-1931.html

Read it over lunch and need to look at it again.

[metalman]

Re: Greece has hit the fan; Big Kahuna #2 arrives

Wow. Anybody that bought Greek bonds in the recent auctions must be seriously underwater...

where's buffett & soros when ya need 'em?

[lsa420]

Re: Greece has hit the fan; Big Kahuna #2 arrives

Goodbye paper money. It has been a fun ride...

[Supercilious]

Re: Greece has hit the fan; Big Kahuna #2 arrives

Goodbye paper money. It has been a fun ride...

I see two possibilities:
1) Goodbye Euro. It has a fun ride...

or

2) Goodbye national sovereignty of national governments of the Eurozone. A nightmare ride is just about to start...

For time being we have just heard a statement of intention. I want to see the strings attached to Greece for this rescue....

[DRumsfeld2000]

Re: Greece has hit the fan; Big Kahuna #2 arrives

To be quite frank this whole debacle illustrates the laziness, stupidity and utter arrogance of politicians and advisors. Clearly they did not do a proper due dilligence on Greece and yet they still let them in to the Eurozone. The Eurozone has no system for ejecting countries. Since this is the case it would have made sense to make sure that entering countries were in a stong financial position. There is more to this whole story than we are being told. Do not get me wrong as I like Germany and have lived there, but was the Eurozone set up to allow Germany to dominate Europe? Was the fall position the likely possiblity that countries would come running to Germany and so allow their influence to increase in a time of crisis?

Maybe this is just simple ramblings, but I find it hard to believe that this situation was not considered. Whatever, it has been good for the funding of the USA's massive deficits. The downside is that it makes US exports more expensive due to the Dollars rise and given Obamas highly optimistic GDP growth figures based primarily on exports that is a double edged sword.

Whatever the truth, the fact is that the affects are likely to be massive. The Eurozone is a collossal trading zone which is greater than that of the USA. Its possible slide into depression must have a huge economic impact on the rest of the world.

[Supercilious]

Re: Greece has hit the fan; Big Kahuna #2 arrives

Actually DRumsfeld2000, you raise valid points. The enlargement of the Eurozone has been with one priority: to create a new German financial empire. If it was a simple monetary union countries like Greece, Italy and new members like Hungary would have never been accepted so fast (maybe after years of membership in-waiting programs). As a result of this forced enlargement you get the situation in which you have 16 fiscal policies and one monetary policy.

We haven't seen yet the end of this story. Everybody is happy now that there is a bailout for Greece. If they receive a pure bailout, the rest of the PIIGS will follow soon.

Here are two other views on this subject:
Creditanstaltikon

and

Lies, Damn Lies, and Sovereign Truths: Why the Euro is Destined to Collapse!

[jpatter666]

Re: Greece has hit the fan; Big Kahuna #2 arrives

As I understood it, most Germans did *not* want to join the Euro, but it was the political price for France supporting reunification.

[c1ue]

Re: Greece has hit the fan; Big Kahuna #2 arrives

The enlargement of the Eurozone has been with one priority: to create a new German financial empire.

Again, your monetarist view obscures any possible sense of history.

The EU was created for geo-political purposes: the prevention of future wars between European nations. Economic union, monetary union, these are all just individual strings in the overall rope.

Certainly there are/were benefits to adding new EU members: cheap labor on the one hand and new markets on the other.

But Germany has showed ZERO desire to increase its own power - financial political, or otherwise - outside of its ECB dominance. And the ECB dominance is simply due to Germany having the money.

[Supercilious]

Re: Greece has hit the fan; Big Kahuna #2 arrives

Again, your monetarist view obscures any possible sense of history.

The EU was created for geo-political purposes: the prevention of future wars between European nations. Economic union, monetary union, these are all just individual strings in the overall rope.

Well, I see c1ue still dislikes me for daring to insult comrade Putin.... this is funny.

If we talk about history, ECSC was created, officially to prevent futures wars between France and Germany, since steel was essential for production of armaments. Of course, other BS motives were served to the masses, ranging from accelerating economic reconstruction to .... preventing famine in Africa.

But if we really talk history the whole drive to unite Europe into a financial construct, started much earlier, with an obscure austro-hungarian lawyer (Popovitch) who wanted to reform the Austro-Hungarian Empire into a bankster paradise, and the populist push for this scam was spearheaded by Archduke Franz Ferdinand (to the horror of the imperial court). The name of the new structure was .... The United States of Greater Austria. Well,... there was the Sarajevo moment and the USGA couldn't be pushed so fast, because the Archeduke was for the USGA scam what Al Gore is for the AGW scam today. Plus there was that little problem with a war started after the assassination in in Sarajevo.

The Popovitch plan remained though in the attention of European elites, and was extended to encompass the whole Europe in an enlarged, improved and repackaged version, being pushed from the shadows by Louis de Rothcild and count Rickard von Coudenhove-Kalergi. In 1922 Coudenhove-Kalergi gets Otto von Habsburg aboard, forming the Pan-Europa movement, and toghether they try to sell the BS as a structure to prevent the Russian invasion of Europe. He even tries to get Hitler aboard, through Hjalmar Schacht and Benito Mussolini (I forgot the name of the Italian count who tried to sway Mussolini). The attempt of influencing Mussolini ended in disaster and things were made worse when Coudenhove-Kalergi got involved with Carlo Sforza.

The nazis and the fascists saw no reason to share their (future) power in Europe with the banksters. At the Anschluss moment, while Luis de Rothcild is captured and will spent one year in Hotel Metropole in Viena, untill his family paidd the ransom (bribe) to Hitler, Coudenhove-Kalergi is able to escape through Portugal and flees to US. To commemorate the successful escape of the master pan-european puppeteer, Hollywood makes the famous movie Casablanca... Victor Laszlo's character is modeled afer Coudenhove-Kalergi. The film is not very accurate since his wife was actually Japanese and related to the imperial house of Japan.

Is that enough history for you comrade c1uevich? You want me to go as far at the moment of the Battleship Potemkin Uprising?

Certainly there are/were benefits to adding new EU members: cheap labor on the one hand and new markets on the other.

Yep, and in the end those side benefits (cheap labour and hegemony over new markets) made everybody forget about prevention of war between France and Germany. Really c1ue, I can understand if you feel compelled to believe Soviet and Russia Today propaganda, but don't tell me you feel also compelled to believe too the pan-european propaganda (which is of austro-hungarian origin). That would amount to .... political-idealogical prostitution

But Germany has showed ZERO desire to increase its own power - financial political, or otherwise - outside of its ECB dominance. And the ECB dominance is simply due to Germany having the money.

Really??? So it's all about the peace loving German elites, who are really good with numbers and very ordered, and everybody decided to to let them take care of ECB, because they have more money?

C1ue, I just can't figure your comments are shameless BS, you have a reality perception problem or it's simple personal antipathy and you still punish me for daring to speak against your KGB idol....

[nitroglycol]

Re: Greece has hit the fan; Big Kahuna #2 arrives

As far as I can tell, only one post in this thread mentions Russia or Putin, and it ain't c1ue's.