The Clueless Rebellion

[Master Shake]

Re: The Clueless Rebellion

I don't.

It's just they are all unacceptable standards of behavior.

I didn't say immigration policy, that's a perspective I guess, just one that I disagree with. I wouldn't be an American if my dad had not been allowed to immigrate. I'm first generation, first to go to college, first to join the air force, first to serve in combat over the skies of Iraq and Afghanistan, well you get the idea. My dad's immigration made those things possible, FOR ME.

Hating someone because they are an immigrant... Yeah, that's not okay in my book, or in any book I think.

I'm Muslim.

We got any Christians or Jews that can fact-check the above claim for me? (about the bible and the torah on immigration)

My grandfather was a naturalized citizen. My wife is as well. That doesn't mean that I support an open borders policy and amnesty for all the illegal aliens (not "undocumented workers") that are in this country. We need to draw a distinction between lawful immigrants who follow the process and those who don't.

There's nothing hateful about wanting to enforce the law and send those who are here illegally back to where they came from or to cut off benefits for them. If you want the truth about the effects of illegal immigration on this country, check out Heather MacDonald's work at The Manhattan Institute.

Thanks for your service to the country.

And as far as the "racist" epithet that's been thrown at the Tea Partiers, Mr Breitbart is still waiting for someone to claim the $10K reward he's offered for a video of John Lewis being called the N-word. Since Mr. Lewis' group intentionally walked through the protesters with video cameras running, it shouldn't be hard to prove.

http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insid...r_jim_galloway

[leegs]

Re: The Clueless Rebellion

Umm, you typed on a keyboard perhaps?

I have to wonder again - WTF?

About the fear and anger thing: I have quite a bit of anger about the situation (the banks, fed, etc) , and once and a while suffer a bit of anxiety (if not quite fear) about things as well. Shit I work in the construction industry .

For a better man than I (someone not prone to typing on a keyboard), indeed these emotions can be motivators towards positive actions. But that's not what I see going on with your heros from the pictures. I see something different. That's just my opinion. Again, I certainly do not understand how that spawned your rant.

[jtabeb]

Re: The Clueless Rebellion

I have to wonder again - WTF?

About the fear and anger thing: I have quite a bit of anger about the situation (the banks, fed, etc) , and once and a while suffer a bit of anxiety (if not quite fear) about things as well. Shit I work in the construction industry .

For a better man than I (someone not prone to typing on a keyboard), indeed these emotions can be motivators towards positive actions. But that's not what I see going on with your heros from the pictures. I see something different. That's just my opinion. Again, I certainly do not understand how that spawned your rant.

Still editing, sorry. It's finished now. (my post above yours)

[jtabeb]

Re: The Clueless Rebellion

That doesn't mean that I support an open borders policy and amnesty for all the illegal aliens (not "undocumented workers") that are in this country. We need to draw a distinction between lawful immigrants who follow the process and those who don't.

That's a policy discussion and one well worth having OUTSIDE a rant-and-rave worthy thread on Itulip.

FRED, Shitcan this thread, FUCKERS DONE!

Zero stars.

CHECK PLEASE!

[leegs]

Re: The Clueless Rebellion

Still editing, sorry. It's finished now.

I still don't see what I said to deserve even the nice (2nd) lecture, much less the initial one.

It strikes me as a bit ironic that someone who claims to take the moral high ground is willing to launch such a critique on a stranger based on what must have been either a misunderstanding or what, I still don't know. So much for seeking common ground, and not judging ...

Anyway, we should probably not continue to hijack this thread. I don't have much else to say to you, but if there is more to be said lets do it via pm.

[bpr]

Re: The Clueless Rebellion

Congratulations bpr!

Thanks. Wow, didn't take long for this thread to get ugly!

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The Clueless Rebellion

You can read that article here:

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/20...fdom-of-crowds

At first skimming, that article reads to me like Existential Nihilism, updated with computer lingo. Someone needs to get a life, or a girlfriend, or a dog or something.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The Clueless Rebellion

I think thats the real issue - the tea partiers and the even less-attractive peripheral groups are IMO primarily motivated by fear and anger and hate.

Being the resident tin-foil-hat cow, I see something different in your reaction than jtabeb saw.

What I see is that it is easy to divide people, to daemonize any particular group or class or race or religion or whatever of people.

We've been doing a pretty good job of daemonizing Muslims in the War on Terror this last decade. Five years ago, I probably would not have given jtabeb the time of day on a forum like this. I was flat wrong, ugly wrong, in that view. I wasn't lacking for like minded colleagues however.

Presently there is an active meme being pushed to daemonize "tea baggers". They are painted as kissin cousins of red necks, hillbillies, racists and militants. "There's nothing more dangerous than an idiot with a gun and a misguided passion." We saw a similar wave of propaganda around the time of the 1995 Murrah Federal Building bombing in Oklahoma City.

This sort of propaganda works. The honest public actions of a wide group of people are discredited and dishonored by a variety of attacks, plants, photochops, and such.

Good honest ordinary people such as yourself dismiss a bunch of other good honest ordinary people as dangerous people filled with fear and anger and hate.

Propaganda crap like this is pulled on many people, for many purposes, about the world and apparently though out history, though it seems to have gotten worse in the last century.

[bpr]

Re: The Clueless Rebellion

Being the resident tin-foil-hat cow, I see something different in your reaction than jtabeb saw.

What I see is that it is easy to divide people, to daemonize any particular group or class or race or religion or whatever of people.

We've been doing a pretty good job of daemonizing Muslims in the War on Terror this last decade. Five years ago, I probably would not have given jtabeb the time of day on a forum like this. I was flat wrong, ugly wrong, in that view. I wasn't lacking for like minded colleagues however.

Presently there is an active meme being pushed to daemonize "tea baggers". They are painted as kissin cousins of red necks, hillbillies, racists and militants. "There's nothing more dangerous than an idiot with a gun and a misguided passion." We saw a similar wave of propaganda around the time of the 1995 Murrah Federal Building bombing in Oklahoma City.

This sort of propaganda works. The honest public actions of a wide group of people are discredited and dishonored by a variety of attacks, plants, photochops, and such.

Good honest ordinary people such as yourself dismiss a bunch of other good honest ordinary people as dangerous people filled with fear and anger and hate.

Propaganda crap like this is pulled on many people, for many purposes, about the world and apparently though out history, though it seems to have gotten worse in the last century.

You are absolutely right in your general point.

The problem is, your examples are quite laughable when you consider the multi-decade-long effort to demonize liberals in the same terms.

I would say it has been a successful demonization effort.

And it has made us angrier, and more radical.

You are focusing your sights on very small populations that have been demonized, over a relatively short period of time. Demonize an enormous population over an extended period and we have a problem.:eek:

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The Clueless Rebellion

You are absolutely right in your general point.

The problem is, your examples are quite laughable when you consider the multi-decade-long effort to demonize liberals in the same terms.

No doubt such demonization has occurred and continues. I was using the examples relevant to the present discussion.

I'm not sure what your point was or why you find it laughable that I don't mention other demonized groups. I say that not out of any irritation; I suspect you have a point I'd enjoy. It just sailed on past me this time.

Give it another try if you're game.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: The Clueless Rebellion

Demonize an enormous population over an extended period and we have a problem.:eek:

I have a habit which sometimes gets me in trouble; I often hit Reply and post a response before finishing reading the post to which I'm responding.

If you're point was that the problem is way bigger than I described it, that not just small groups here and there are momentarily demonized, but that very large groups are demonized over prolonged times, then ... yup ... we have a problem Houston.

[bpr]

Re: The Clueless Rebellion

I have a habit which sometimes gets me in trouble; I often hit Reply and post a response before finishing reading the post to which I'm responding.

If you're point was that the problem is way bigger than I described it, that not just small groups here and there are momentarily demonized, but that very large groups are demonized over prolonged times, then ... yup ... we have a problem Houston.

Agreed. Unfortunately.:rolleyes:

[Slimprofits]

Re: The Clueless Rebellion

I don't think Facebook isn't evil, just extremely annoying. First of all it's annoying to hear about it all the time. Did you hear what happened on Facebook and Twitter today? GFY!

I signed up because one side of my family is all on there, but engaged all of the privacy settings.

Of course the advertisements on the facebook page are targeted at the user that is logged in, but that's to be expected. Is this something to be afraid of? Advertising only works on you if you let it. I have not as a result of signing up for facebook started receiving more spam e-mail or junk snail mail or marketing phone calls or anything else.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: The Clueless Rebellion

At first skimming, that article reads to me like Existential Nihilism, updated with computer lingo. Someone needs to get a life, or a girlfriend, or a dog or something.

girlfriend, dog, guitar, welding machine, gold
virtual girlfriend, dog, guitar, welding machine, gold

[Dave Stratman]

Re: The Clueless Rebellion

Here's something about Facebook that I found convincing:


Taking a close look at Facebook
http://brasschecktv .com/page/ 603.html