Greece becomes (officially) a protectorat of the IMF

[ciaoant1]

Hi, i'm from Greece, and since we are now controlled by the IMF, hopefully the people will not just "roll over and die", they' ll finally start fighting more

http://translate.google.com/translat...2Fblmberg.html


This is a good example of what needs to be done (short-term at least):
http://translate.google.com/translat...post_1746.html

[hayekvindicated]

Re: Greece becomes (officially) a protectorat of the IMF

Nobody forced Greece to accept help from the IMF or any other country.

It can leave the Euro, default on its debt and stick two fingers to its creditors. However, if it does this, it will need to fire half of its public sector employees (or may be more) and have to engage in some drastic austerity.

I love the tales of woe from countries in financial trouble screaming about how they are about to be pillaged by oligarchs. Well they ought to have thought of that before borrowing 300 Billion Euros and spending it on government jobs that produce nothing.

[Raz]

Re: Greece becomes (officially) a protectorat of the IMF

Hi, i'm from Greece, and since we are now controlled by the IMF, hopefully the people will not just "roll over and die", they' ll finally start fighting more

http://translate.google.com/translat...2Fblmberg.html


This is a good example of what needs to be done (short-term at least):
http://translate.google.com/translat...post_1746.html

At the outset I must confess that my knowledge of the problems in Greece is very limited, although I suspect that it's one of a sovereign government borrowing the entire nation into ruin in order to subsidize public employees, special interests, etc., in order to pass out largess with which to buy votes. If so, it sounds like the United States for the past forty years, except we have conned a game for the ENTIRE WORLD in that we issue the reserve currency.

Iceland, however, for all its troubles seems to only somewhat resemble Greece, but appears to be in open revolt (among the citizenry, not the political whores at the top) to the idea that they should assume the role of indentured servants in order to reimburse British and Dutch depositors for the money they lost in Icelandic banks.

If that's the case then the Icelanders have my sypathy, but the Greeks do not.

[oddlots]

Re: Greece becomes (officially) a protectorat of the IMF

Like Raz I'm not familiar enough with the actual circumstances in Greece to pass judgement but I did read an interesting piece by a (private) Greek finance professional that I thought, plausibly, suggested that the trouble really started with entry into the EU and a wave of "investment" that accompanied it. (Probably read it here; wouldn't be the first time I'm bringing water to the well.) He pointed convincingly to metrics regarding personal savings rates as another prism by which to determine solvency.

Point being: I'm a little disturbed by the ease with which people accept the slovenly government worker as the cause of larger economic turmoil. It sort of reminds me of blaming the housing crisis on irresponsible borrowers. Cart. Horse. And cui bono always.

I think in times like these you really have to fight hard against the politics of resentment. The fact that almost no OECD government looks good by the metrics that are used to pillory Greece should give us pause.

And didn't I just read a piece here about how the majority of UK workers are now dependant on a government salary?

[GRG55]

Re: Greece becomes (officially) a protectorat of the IMF

Hi, i'm from Greece, and since we are now controlled by the IMF, hopefully the people will not just "roll over and die", they' ll finally start fighting more

http://translate.google.com/translat...2Fblmberg.html


This is a good example of what needs to be done (short-term at least):
http://translate.google.com/translat...post_1746.html

I don't actually see a factual basis to conclude that Greece is "controlled by the IMF".

Greece is one of 186 member states of the IMF. That doesn't mean the IMF controls it.

Germany is talking tough in advance of the Brussels conference later this week [is anybody surprised?], and has tied EU aid to participation by the IMF. Just because Germany says this does not mean that suddenly Greece is now controlled by the IMF.

What causes you to think this?

[ciaoant1]

Re: Greece becomes (officially) a protectorat of the IMF

Iceland, however, for all its troubles seems to only somewhat resemble Greece, but appears to be in open revolt (among the citizenry, not the political whores at the top) to the idea that they should assume the role of indentured servants in order to reimburse British and Dutch depositors for the money they lost in Icelandic banks.

If that's the case then the Icelanders have my sypathy, but the Greeks do not.

I agree with you in this point, i think that the people should force the goverment to let them vote like in Iceland if they want to accept these measures

[ciaoant1]

Re: Greece becomes (officially) a protectorat of the IMF

I don't actually see a factual basis to conclude that Greece is "controlled by the IMF".

Greece is one of 186 member states of the IMF. That doesn't mean the IMF controls it.

Germany is talking tough in advance of the Brussels conference later this week [is anybody surprised?], and has tied EU aid to participation by the IMF. Just because Germany says this does not mean that suddenly Greece is now controlled by the IMF.

What causes you to think this?

The IMF may not be controlling things 100%, but the fact that it is officially brought in to "help out" shows what kind of policies will be forced upon the people (not just by the IMF of course, but by Germany, etc).

[gnk]

Re: Greece becomes (officially) a protectorat of the IMF

Nobody forced Greece to accept help from the IMF or any other country.

It can leave the Euro, default on its debt and stick two fingers to its creditors. However, if it does this, it will need to fire half of its public sector employees (or may be more) and have to engage in some drastic austerity.

I love the tales of woe from countries in financial trouble screaming about how they are about to be pillaged by oligarchs. Well they ought to have thought of that before borrowing 300 Billion Euros and spending it on government jobs that produce nothing.

Your argument, though correct, misses the broader issues. Your argument is similar to the one people used to blame the subprime borrower as the cause of the global financial meltdown. What we are facing is much, much bigger than that. It's the entire global financial and commercial framework that is cracking. Fiat money and trade imbalances are the culprits.

As to the Eurozone, a little perspective:

Keep in mind that the Euro is controlled by the northern countries - mostly Germany. When the Euro began, Germany faced labor competition from the South (PIGS) and kept the Euro rate artificially low in the early 2000s. This gave Germany a competitive edge in exports, and the Southern countries lost productivity as a result. The low rates also contributed to asset bubbles and government deficits in the South to make up for lost productivity. Such misallocation of capital ultimately leads to a bust, which is where we are now.

Greece will not be able to reach a 3% budget deficit. As soon as they cut spending, GDP drops, and they are back to where they were before. It's a Sysiphean task: the rock rolls down the hill again each time....

The US, UK and Japan are doing the opposite. But they too will fail, but at best, they are delaying the failure. However, when the failure comes, it will be more catastrophic.

A good prediction in my view:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1428324968


Keep in mind that all nations can never have a current account surplus all at the same time. Fiat money and Central banking has enabled these trade imbalances to exist for too long thru deficit spending. They are now correcting with negative consequences for all. Germany too, will face economic consequences for enabling a lopsided trade/finance arrangement just as China and the US has.

But just to show what a farce this has all become amongst the elites, even in a debt crisis, they try to make a little money:

(Reuters) - In a bizarre twist to the Greek debt crisis, France and Germany are pressing Greece to buy their gunboats and warplanes, even as they urge it to cut public spending and curb its deficit.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62M1Q520100323

What a farce. It's stories such as these that reinforce my view that there are too many captured governments and powerful interests that care more about extracting wealth, however illusory, than actually creating a robust, sustainable system. The world is too large, there are too many competing and conflicting interest for any one person or person(s) to mind the store, so to speak. Thus, ultimate collapse of the farce we call "globalization" is a certainty, IMHO.