Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

[radon]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

The only thing I've learned from the health care reform bill passing is that the Democrat Party + Obama is scarier than the mafia. After all, DK didn't back down for one but did for the other.

Either that or Kucinich is mellowing in his old age.

http://www.freetimes.com/stories/15/...ennis-kucinich

Maybe he got one of these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEJiT...eature=related

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

There is simply no credible evidence linking vaccine administration as a cause of ADHD.

It is pretty much impossible to prove the non-existence of evidence. What one can do is to choose to which evidence one gives credence. May I suggest you meant to write:

I simply choose to give no credence to the evidence linking vaccine administration as a cause of ADHD.

A simple Google search for "vaccines adhd" will find pages claiming there is no such evidence side by side with pages apparently providing such evidence. Examples of pages claiming to present such evidence for ADHD or autism include:

• Autism and ADHD Linked to Vaccines
• Vaccinated Children Have More ADHD, Autism, and Asthma
• Vaccinated Children Two And A Half Times More Likely To Have Neurological Disorders Like ADHD And Autism, New Survey In California And Oregon Finds
• Cal-Oregon Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated Survey
• KNOW. . .The Autism - Vaccine Connection

[Starving Steve]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

One thing the Demos should have done with the Obama health reform is to have put one paragraph in that bill to cap healthcare lawsuits to a maximum of $200,000. <------------period.

How outrageous that lawyers and crooks have made a lottery out of American medical care. The sueing and the needless defencive medicine being practiced in American hospitals and clinics should be STOPPED. <------period.

But anyway, the Obama health reform was a good first step toward socialized-medicine. I give all Demos who stuck with the reform an "A" for effort because they actually got the bill passed, and in spite of the corrupt, reactionary, and Southern-controlled U.S. Senate.

[Ghent12]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

One thing the Demos should have done with the Obama health reform is to have put one paragraph in that bill to cap healthcare lawsuits to a maximum of $200,000. <------------period.

How outrageous that lawyers and crooks have made a lottery out of American medical care. The sueing and the needless defencive medicine being practiced in American hospitals and clinics should be STOPPED. <------period.

But anyway, the Obama health reform was a good first step toward socialized-medicine. I give all Demos who stuck with the reform an "A" for effort because they actually got the bill passed, and in spite of the corrupt, reactionary, and Southern-controlled U.S. Senate.

I'm a little leery about removing rights from people. When I think of an absolutely worst-case scenarios I can conceive, it becomes plain that $200,000 is simply not enough. Among the worst-case scenarios would be a young, talented athlete, actor/actress, or model getting his or her face permanently, grotesquely disfigured in a botched routine operation. Their bread-winning ability--the only one they focused on developing--is gone permanently. At age 25 or so. Not too late to have to reinvent yourself, but to be forced to do so over an accident could easily justify more than $200,000. Even if this young person doesn't expressly need their face to be pretty to make a living, that's still a destruction of their personal identity. How to you put a price on someone's entire psyche?

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: FIRE Economy wins again

however, I have never felt that what we call health insurance was insurance. Catastrophic health insurance is insurance.

I quite agree.

Somewhere recently I saw it alleged that the just passed Health Care bill will end up making catastrophic insurance more expensive. Do you (or any lurker) know if this is so and how?

[Starving Steve]

Re: FIRE Economy wins again

I quite agree.

Somewhere recently I saw it alleged that the just passed Health Care bill will end up making catastrophic insurance more expensive. Do you (or any lurker) know if this is so and how?

Ever try to collect a big catastrophic award from a private for-profit insurance company? You lose. The big insurance companies do NOT pay-out big settlements, anymore than the Mafia pays-out big awards.

Private for-profit health insurance is not about paying six-figure settlements. It is all about milking the public for $600 per month health insurance premiums and then kicking them out on their ass when they get really sick. Little or nothing is done for the really ill patients; maybe just enough to keep the lawsuits away, and maybe even less.

How any American could not want socialized-medicine now is beyond my comprehension. :rolleyes:

[jiimbergin]

Re: FIRE Economy wins again

I quite agree.

Somewhere recently I saw it alleged that the just passed Health Care bill will end up making catastrophic insurance more expensive. Do you (or any lurker) know if this is so and how?

I have not thought about it. Since the new bill requires everyone to buy insurance, it might depend on what coverage the law allows or requires you to buy. I will try to do a little research.
jim

[c1ue]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

But anyway, the Obama health reform was a good first step toward socialized-medicine. I give all Demos who stuck with the reform an "A" for effort because they actually got the bill passed, and in spite of the corrupt, reactionary, and Southern-controlled U.S. Senate.

Steve, I fear you are quite confused.

The "Health Reform" bill has zero characteristics of socialized medicine: it doesn't include everyone nor does it provide care.

As for Demos getting credit - they ALREADY control Congress. And even then it barely squeaked through.

So you should decide which is which: Is the Senate controlled by the South or the 59 Democrats which voted for the bill which Obama signed.

[bpr]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

The only thing I've learned from the health care reform bill passing is that the Democrat Party + Obama is scarier than the mafia. After all, DK didn't back down for one but did for the other.

Either that or Kucinich is mellowing in his old age.

http://www.freetimes.com/stories/15/...ennis-kucinich

Kucinich makes his point here:

When it comes to analyzing the law we've just passed, it's hard to use terms like good or bad. Because ultimately what was decisive for me was not the bill, but rather the potential to create an opening for a more comprehensive approach toward health care reform. If the bill were to go down, this whole discussion about anything we might hope to do in health care in the future is not going to happen in this generation. We had to wait sixteen years after the demise of the Clinton plan to come to this moment. And the angst that members are feeling about this bill — the temperature that's been raised in the body politic over this bill, the characterizations of the bill in a debate that's been quite distorted — all of those things argue against bringing up another health care bill in the near future if this bill were to go down.

(from Esquire article linked to earlier)

Bottom line is, he'd likely be in his eighties before healthcare was ever again discussed in Congress. He could remain the "last man standing" on principle, or cave in and accept a relatively toothless bill like this one.

If this bill failed, we wouldn't see healthcare legislation again until 2025 or later, maybe never.

I also found Robert Reich to make an interesting point, even if he overstated the depth of what the government is doing in this bill:

The significance of Obama’s health legislation is more political than substantive. For the first time since Ronald Reagan told America government is the problem, Obama’s health bill reasserts that government can provide a major solution. In political terms, that’s a very big deal.

Source

[radon]

Re: FIRE Economy wins again

I have not thought about it. Since the new bill requires everyone to buy insurance, it might depend on what coverage the law allows or requires you to buy. I will try to do a little research.
jim

My understanding, which may be incorrect, is that catastrophic insurance in its present form will cease to exist. You need to buy a "Qualifying" insurance plan which will include everything INCLUDING catastrophic. In other words the people who currently save money by just buying catastrophic insurance will be forced to pay for more a regular plan as well. Either that or they can send the IRS the money anyway.

[ViC78]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

Businesses React to Rising Cost of ObamaCare: They're Cutting Benefits

Posted Mar 26, 2010 09:32am EDT by Henry Blodget in Healthcare Information, Recession Related: mdt, cat, vz, xlv, ixj, ^dji, ^gspc


Remember the part in the ObamaCare pitch when they said if you like your current healthcare, it won't change?
Turns out it might.
Companies are already announcing that their healthcare premium costs are going through the roof. Some are responding by firing people. Some are cutting benefits. And some are presumably eating it.
But costs they are a-rising.
A few examples from the WSJ:
-- Caterpillar said it would cost the company at least $100 million more in the first year alone.
-- Medical device maker Medtronic warned that new taxes on its products could force it to lay off a thousand workers.
-- Verizon announced to employees that it will likely have to cut healthcare benefits to offset the new costs.
So, people who like your employer-provided health insurance, get ready to pay more or get less.

Ummm... Seeing that the bill does not go into effect until 2014, how can they blame this on the bill (except Medtronic, I suppose) ?

[tombat1913]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

Fascism? You really should check a dictionary before you make a fool out of yourself.

Let's see:
Belligerent nationalism. check.
Strong Centralized Government. check.
Corporatist Economic System. check.
State control of economy. getting damn close.

Who's the fool chap?

[mattley]

Re: FIRE Economy wins again

I quite agree.

Somewhere recently I saw it alleged that the just passed Health Care bill will end up making catastrophic insurance more expensive. Do you (or any lurker) know if this is so and how?

TPC, the demise of catastrophic insurance is implied when insurance companies can't deny coverage. It's the same argument about adverse selection that you may have heard used to justify the insurance mandate.

As a quick example, suppose I get a catastrophic insurance policy that costs $3000 a year and has a $10000 deductible. Halfway through the year I fall off a ladder and screw up my leg. Reconstructive surgery will cost well in excess of $10000. So I cancel my catastrophic policy and enroll in a high premium high benefit policy instead. I'm paying more in monthly premiums, but I save most of the $10000 deductible. Then next year or the year after I switch back to the catastrophic policy.

Obviously this is not a very workable arrangement from the insurance company's point of view.

Either there will be fine print and/or exceptions to the rules about cannot-deny-coverage, or the variation and choice in insurance policies is going to narrow considerably.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

Steve, I fear you are quite confused.

The "Health Reform" bill has zero characteristics of socialized medicine: it doesn't include everyone nor does it provide care.

As for Demos getting credit - they ALREADY control Congress. And even then it barely squeaked through.

So you should decide which is which: Is the Senate controlled by the South or the 59 Democrats which voted for the bill which Obama signed.

There were 30 blue-dog Demos, most of them from the South, no surprise, but a few from mostly rural Western states like North Dakota and South Dakota, Arizona, etc. that voted to kill the bill. These blue-dogs were the exact same as the Republicans in their states, i.e, corrupt and rightwing as can be.

The problem with the U.S. Constitution is that the rural states hold a lock on power in the U.S. Senate because a 2/3 majority is required in the Senate in order to pass anything. The result is that nothing gets passed, and the U.S. Senate is the killing ground for everything. The result is that the Senate serves NO FUNCTION at all in America except to provide lucrative bribes to (old fart) U.S Senators from corporations and lobbying groups.

The days of America requiring rural Southern representation are long gone, like 150 years out-of-date. The whole Constitution is a disgrace to-day and needs to be re-written because grid-lock and pay-offs no way to govern a country.

At least the Demos in Congress did pass some form of health reform which points in the direction of an eventual move toward socialized-medicine, and this reform was passed in spite of the U.S. Senate; it was passed twice in the House and once in a weak generic form in the U.S. Senate--- good enough to pass the bill constitutionally. So hats-off to Obama and his leadership in Washington, at least on the critical matter of health reform.

What really rubs me the wrong way are all of the Republicans ( 100% of them ) who wanted to do nothing about for-profit private healthcare in America. They were the party of 100% "no" and doing 100% nothing whatsoever on the issue of health reform.

A day or two after health reform passed in the Congress, hecklers from the House Gallery shouted the N-word at a black Demo from South Carolina and the word "f*g" at Barney Frank from New York. So, nothing really has ever changed in the South----- it was all just buried under a thin vanier of looking better.

I mean, "Let's tell it the way it really is in the U.S.A, politically."

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: FIRE Economy wins again

My understanding, which may be incorrect, is that catastrophic insurance in its present form will cease to exist. You need to buy a "Qualifying" insurance plan which will include everything INCLUDING catastrophic. In other words the people who currently save money by just buying catastrophic insurance will be forced to pay for more a regular plan as well. Either that or they can send the IRS the money anyway.

So catastrophic insurance would not satisfy the requirements for the IRS enforced regular plan. I'll believe that.

But a catastrophic plan might still make economic sense. For someone with a relatively low income (hence a low 2% penalty), a catastrophic plan plus the penalty might cost less than a regular qualifying plan, while providing the insurance some of us might seek.

I haven't seen anything (haven't looked, really) outlawing catastrophic plans. Rather I've just seen complicating factors such as those I just noted, which might alter or diminish the market for catastrophic plans. Basically anyone now on a catastrophic plan who decides to go with a regular qualifying plan has just left the market for catastrophic plans.

===

Aha - here's plan that might have a market. If you're a medical insurance company executive, listen up. How about an automatically converting catastrophic plan. So long as you stay reasonably healthy, you pay for the catastrophic policy plus the IRS penalty. When something goes horribly wrong and you wake up in the ICU recovering from open heart or brain surgery, then by prior consent, you're automatically converted to your medical insurance company's qualifying plan and you send quite a bit more money to the insurance company and a little less to the IRS. I suspect that the medical insurance company would reasonably refuse to let you drop back to just the catastrophic policy until you had (on an actuarial basis at least) reimbursed them through your higher premiums for whatever that medical emergency cost them.