Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

Denninger has an interesting spin on this today:
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/a...-The-Dems.html

any thoughts on this?

Thanks for that link. Karl D's take that many of us should drop all medical insurance, until and unless we have a major medical expense, sounds about right to me.

From where I sit, this simply raises my income tax rate 2%.

[dbarberic]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

The bill aims to deal with what is seen as a pressing problem for the ruling elite. While corporations, with the collaboration of the unions, have been able to drive down wages and increase productivity, they have not been able to put a brake on spiraling medical costs. These come in the form of increased costs for employee insurance coverage, as well as care for the poor and uninsured who seek medical treatment at emergency rooms and public clinics, thus driving up costs overall.
A solution to this problem for big business—one which is addressed by Obama’s health care restructuring—is to dump these more vulnerable sections of the population into bare-bones plans, where limitations are placed on more expensive and “unnecessary” tests, treatments and drugs. These will include stripped-down Medicaid plans, a gutted Medicare program where care is rationed according to “cost effectiveness,” and substandard plans available for purchase on insurance “exchanges.”
The health care legislation sets a dangerous precedent for a far broader assault on social programs, elements of which have already been put in motion by the administration. Last month, Obama established by executive order a bipartisan commission on deficits, which will propose measures to slash government spending on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.
In the coming period, when millions become clearer on the real implications of the health care bill, the brutal reality will inevitably provoke an enormous sense of betrayal and anger. This will set the stage for the emergence of new forms of struggle as people begin to consider the alternative to a corporate-controlled health care system—that is, one based on a socialist program that begins with basic human needs rather than corporate profit.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/ma...pers-m22.shtml

The groundwork is being established for austerity programs.

[MulaMan]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

Greatest political achievement in our lifetime. Period.

Bigger than anything Reagan, Bush, Carter, Clinton, Bush,... achieve COMBINED!

Taking care of your neighbors with good government for real people, real middle class Americans.

Talk about homeland security? Well finally Americans no longer need to DIE because of fascist mega-insurance corporations.

Yes, could have been better, lets hope the details get modified to further crush the insurance monopolies and open that door for true competition.

If you don't understand how this is about "jobs" then you are an idiot and/or retard. Millions of Americans work in cubes at fascist mega-international firms simply because of massive health insurance advantages.

This bill increases competition in our economy in a massive way. Especially in 2014.

Small Business will boom, There are millions of talented people that will now leave Goldman, JPM, Bank of America, Wellpoint, GM, ect.. to work for "quality" firms that build "quality" products and have integrity and American values so that they can sleep at night knowing that they do not have to work for fascist anti-America scum just to get health care for their family.

Americans can now choose careers that they are proud of, regardless of pay and health benefits, that they enjoy most and that their kids will be proud.

The idea that daddy works at big fascist multi-national firm in a cube as a wage slave for 80hrs per week, is dead!

Dagger into the fascist oligarchs that have captured American politics and destroyed America.

Exposed the Republican party as the anti-America bigoted scumbags that they are, begging for money from wall-street and health insurance firms. Tea "scum" bags screaming bigoted retarded anti-America slurs on capital hill.

As a fiscal conservative, no patriotic American could ever vote Republic again, until that party is cleaned right out and rebuilt on actual conservative values. aka Ron Paul.

Republicans just don't get it. Still throwing out fear, anti-American ideas, fascist profits for CEOs, destruction of good government, destruction of good regulation, ... "no-government" somehow auto-magically creates good government.


As an Investor this is a huge SHORT of fascist mega-corporations that have 20yrs of profits based primarily on squeezed middle class wages, political deregulation, and access to cheap money.

Mega-corporation will now need to COMPETE ON QUALITY, SERVICE, and PRICE - they will lose because they are staff primarily will average, bored, ineffective, cube dwellers, corporate lawyers, and human ("slave") resources.

GOOD MORNING AMERICA, WELCOME TO THE 21ST CENTURY!

[Ghent12]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

Denninger has an interesting spin on this today:
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/a...-The-Dems.html

any thoughts on this?

Seems like I've heard that exact argument before from Peter Schiff. No reason to get insurance until you need it, so nobody will--especially with the new impossible prices.

[fallout]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

Solid points to Karl Denninger AND MulaMan. The consequences of this are indeed far reaching and massive in scale, especially in the next few years.
A dagger right into the heart of the "I" in FIRE.

[we_are_toast]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

Solid points to Karl Denninger AND MulaMan. The consequences of this are indeed far reaching and massive in scale, especially in the next few years.
A dagger right into the heart of the "I" in FIRE.

I'm not sure I'd describe it as a dagger, more like a big warning sign. It's hard to throw daggers from congress when one party is bought and paid for by the FIRE economy.

The insurance companies got a lot from this bill (requirement for everyone to have insurance and the subsidies). But they're on notice to hold down rate increases. If they don't play ball, the direct competition of a public option will be the next step.

My guess is, rates will level out until the insurance interests can reclaim congress this year or in 2012, then rates will start climbing again.

Dodd's finance reform bill that came out of committee yesterday also wasn't a dagger, it's more like a hard slap in the face. Again, unanimous opposition from the FIRE party makes it hard to throw daggers.

[fallout]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

We are toast, please go read Denninger's post and Mulaman's further down.
The insurance companies will all be bankrupt by 2020! :rolleyes:

[flintlock]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

Thanks for that link. Karl D's take that many of us should drop all medical insurance, until and unless we have a major medical expense, sounds about right to me.

From where I sit, this simply raises my income tax rate 2%.

That's the way I am reading it too. So we can just wait it out and buy insurance when we need it? Sounds ridiculous.

I have a catastrophic policy now, so I guess I am one of those who will have to either pay more( almost impossible right now) or drop it altogether. How many people out there will be able to afford more in these times? I'd like to see the numbers on where the government assistance paying this will come in. Seems they aim to put us all on the dole one way or the other.

Will not a backlash in the next election mean this law goes away in a few years, before most of it takes effect?

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

Will not a backlash in the next election mean this law goes away in a few years, before most of it takes effect?

That would be an unprecedented backlash.

Big government doesn't go away. It just becomes more convoluted.

Republicans will likely gain some seats running against this monstrosity, but then they will seek to pass "improvements" to it, not a wholesale repeal.

Just on a simple matter of vote counting, the Republicans will certainly lack the solid 2/3's majority in both chambers that would be necessary to override the inevitable Presidential veto if they voted to outright repeal this bill. Only 1/3 of the Senate seats are up for election each two year cycle, so the Democrats will almost certainly retain a majority in the U.S. Senate.

[flintlock]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

That would be an unprecedented backlash.

Big government doesn't go away. It just becomes more convoluted.

Republicans will likely gain some seats running against this monstrosity, but then they will seek to pass "improvements" to it, not a wholesale repeal.

Just on a simple matter of vote counting, the Republicans will certainly lack the solid 2/3's majority in both chambers that would be necessary to override the inevitable Presidential veto if they voted to outright repeal this bill. Only 1/3 of the Senate seats are up for election each two year cycle, so the Democrats will almost certainly retain a majority in the U.S. Senate.

You are correct. I was forgetting about the Presidential veto. Short of a revolution, I can't see anything changing. Socialism won.

[reallife]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

The new health care reform law isn't socialism by any stretch. I'm not too happy with it either but to call it socialism is silly political jingoism, and not very enlightening.

[Roughneck]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

 A dagger right into the heart of the "I" in FIRE

HMMM then why were the major healthcare stocks going UP yesterday? Insurancies co's get a huge new customer base,young people who don't get sick. Ohh and you may be able to scheme the system for a while by not buying insurance until you get sick but you can bet that will change. They will either rasie the penalities ot impose a waiting period etc. They need all that easy money to make it work. Sure they have to accept people with pre existing conditions now but they get a lot of money to make up for it. True, this a FIRST step and you can bet a public option will work it's way in sooner or later. But, to me this is a dagger in the heart to the US budget already under strain from too many entitlements. Anyone who believes spending almost a trillion dollars( much more if you account for all the medicare cuts that won't happen and the revenues that will fall short of expectations) to save 100B over 10 years is smoking crack. Also the CBO admits it's predictions about saving a trillion dollars over years 10-20 are only as good as their assumptions,not very. Given that they underestimated the defecit by 5 trillion for the ten years ending in 09 I'd say their predictions are worthless. This will be the final dagger in the heart of the solvency of our government. Buy some more gold boys cause in 10 years those paper dollars might be good to wipe your ass but that's about it.

[radon]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

 A dagger right into the heart of the "I" in FIRE

HMMM then why were the major healthcare stocks going UP yesterday? Insurancies co's get a huge new customer base,young people who don't get sick. Ohh and you may be able to scheme the system for a while by not buying insurance until you get sick but you can bet that will change. They will either rasie the penalities ot impose a waiting period etc. They need all that easy money to make it work. Sure they have to accept people with pre existing conditions now but they get a lot of money to make up for it. True, this a FIRST step and you can bet a public option will work it's way in sooner or later. But, to me this is a dagger in the heart to the US budget already under strain from too many entitlements. Anyone who believes spending almost a trillion dollars( much more if you account for all the medicare cuts that won't happen and the revenues that will fall short of expectations) to save 100B over 10 years is smoking crack. Also the CBO admits it's predictions about saving a trillion dollars over years 10-20 are only as good as their assumptions,not very. Given that they underestimated the defecit by 5 trillion for the ten years ending in 09 I'd say their predictions are worthless. This will be the final dagger in the heart of the solvency of our government. Buy some more gold boys cause in 10 years those paper dollars might be good to wipe your ass but that's about it.

Here here - nearly everyone loses. I would also say that anyone who thinks suddenly getting a 2% stake in what the IRS takes in a year AND a law mandating the purchase of their service represents some sort of loss or dagger in anything other than the citizens eye is fooling themselves.

No one is getting free healthcare, but, thanks to the passage of this bill, everything you need to buy to survive will get more expensive faster than it would have otherwise, and through inflation you collectively will pay for the insurance anyway. The poor and middle class will be hurt most by this inflation; these are the same people this ridiculous bill was marketed to help.

As for the insurance companies our beloved congress will take care of them. They have great lobbyists and will enjoy enormous government subsidies, at your expense, into the indefinite future. They had to put up some token resistance, but do you think for a moment that they would have signed off on this bill without a serious fight if there was any chance at all that they would be bankrupted by it. This bill represents record profits for insurance companies and does nothing whatsoever to address the real reasons medicine is expensive in this country. Without a single pay, tort reform, or FDA reform and a mountain of other things that could have made a difference this bill is a monumentally stupid mistake that will easily cost more than Iraq. Everyone cheering that thinks this is a victory for anyone but corporate america is sadly mistaken. The only one risking bankruptcy by this bill is the american government and taxpayers.

The end result is that insurance companies get rich, low margin health care providers leave medicine, and we all get a little bit poorer as inflation raises the cost of living and erodes our meager savings.

[radon]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

The new health care reform law isn't socialism by any stretch. I'm not too happy with it either but to call it socialism is silly political jingoism, and not very enlightening.

How about fascism? The government is mandating that I purchase a service offered by a private company.

[reallife]

Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

How about fascism? The government is mandating that I purchase a service offered by a private company.

Fascism? You really should check a dictionary before you make a fool out of yourself.