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Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

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  • Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Congre...n&asset=&ccode=

    Now the grand experiment begin: can mandatory health insurance WITHOUT an accompanying health care provision system actually provide better car?

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Summoned to success by President Barack Obama, the Democratic-controlled Congress approved historic legislation Sunday night extending health care to tens of millions of uninsured Americans and cracking down on insurance company abuses, a climactic chapter in the century-long quest for near universal coverage.
    Widely viewed as dead two months ago, the Senate-passed bill cleared the House on a 219-212 vote, with Republicans unanimous in opposition.
    Congressional officials said they expected Obama to sign the bill as early as Tuesday.
    A second measure -- making changes in the first -- was lined up for passage later in the evening. It would then go to the Senate, where Democratic leaders said they had the votes to pass it.
    Crowds of protesters outside the Capitol shouted "just vote no" in a futile attempt to stop the inevitable taking place inside a House packed with lawmakers and ringed with spectators in the galleries above.
    Across hours of debate, House Democrats predicted the major bill, costing $940 billion over a decade, would rank with other great social legislation of recent decades.
    "We will be joining those who established Social Security, Medicare and now, tonight, health care for all Americans, said Speaker Nancy Pelosi, partner to Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., in the grueling campaign to pass the legislation.
    "This is the civil rights act of the 21st century," added Rep. Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, the top-ranking black member of the House.
    Republicans readily agreed the bill would affect everyone in America, but warned repeatedly of the burden imposed by more than $900 billion in tax increases and Medicare cuts combined.
    "We have failed to listen to America," said Rep. John Boehner of Ohio, leader of a party that has vowed to carry the fight into the fall's midterm elections for control of Congress.
    The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said the legislation would extend coverage to 32 million Americans who lack it, ban insurers from denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions and cut deficits by an estimated $138 billion over a decade. If realized, the expansion of coverage would include 95 percent of all eligible individuals under age 65.
    Far beyond the political ramifications -- a concern the president repeatedly insisted he paid no mind -- were the sweeping changes the bill held in store for millions of individuals, the insurance companies that would come under tougher control and the health care providers, many of whom would face higher taxes.
    For the first time, most Americans would be required to purchase insurance, and face penalties if they refused. Much of the money in the bill would be devoted to subsidies to help families at incomes of up to $88,000 a year pay their premiums.
    The measure would also usher in a significant expansion of Medicaid, the federal-state health care program for the poor. Coverage would be required for incomes up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level, $29,327 a year for a family of four. Childless adults would be covered for the first time, starting in 2014.
    The insurance industry, which spent millions on advertising trying to block the bill, would come under new federal regulation. They would be forbidden from placing lifetime dollar limits on policies, from denying coverage to children because of pre-existing conditions and from canceling policies when a policyholder becomes ill.
    Parents would be able to keep children up to age 26 on their family insurance plans, three years longer than is now the case.
    A new high-risk pool would offer coverage to uninsured people with medical problems until 2014, when the coverage expansion would go into high gear.
    The final obstacle to passage was cleared a few hours before the vote, when Obama and Democratic leaders reached a compromise with anti-abortion lawmakers whose rebellion had left the outcome in doubt. The president issued an executive order pledging that no federal funds would be used for elective abortion, satisfying Rep. Bart Stupak of Michigan and a handful of like-minded lawmakers.
    A spokesman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops expressed skepticism that the presidential order would satisfy the church's objections.
    For the president, the events capped an 18-day stretch in which he traveled to four states and lobbied more than 60 wavering lawmakers in person or by phone to secure passage of his signature domestic issue. According to some who met with him, he warned that the bill's demise could cripple his still-young presidency.
    After more than a year of political combat, Democrats piled superlative upon superlative across several hours of House debate.
    Rep. Louise Slaughter of New York read a message President Franklin Roosevelt sent Congress in 1939 urging lawmakers to address the needs of those without health care, and said Democrat Harry Truman and Republican Richard Nixon had also sought to broaden insurance coverage.
    Republicans attacked the bill without let-up, warning it would harm the economy while mandating a government takeover of the health care system.
    "The American people know you can't reduce health care costs by spending $1 trillion or raising taxes by more than one-half trillion dollars. The American people know that you cannot cut Medicare by over one-half trillion dollars without hurting seniors," said Rep. Dave Camp, R-Mich.
    "And, the American people know that you can't create an entirely new government entitlement program without exploding spending and the deficit."
    Obama has said often that presidents of both parties have tried without success to achieve national health insurance, beginning with Theodore Roosevelt early in the 20th century.
    The 44th president's quest to succeed where others have failed seemed at a dead end two months ago, when Republicans won a special election for a Massachusetts Senate seat, and with it, the votes to prevent a final vote.
    But the White House, Pelosi and Reid soon came up with a rescue plan that required the House to approve the Senate-passed measure despite opposition to many of its provisions, then have both houses pass a fix-it measure incorporating numerous changes.
    To pay for the changes, the legislation includes more than $400 billion in higher taxes over a decade, roughly half of it from a new Medicare payroll tax on individuals with incomes over $200,000 and couples over $250,000. A new excise tax on high-cost insurance policies was significantly scaled back in deference to complaints from organized labor.
    In addition, the bills cut more than $500 billion from planned payments to hospitals, nursing homes, hospices and other providers that treat Medicare patients. An estimated $200 billion would reduce planned subsidies to insurance companies that offer a private alternative to traditional Medicare.
    The insurance industry warned that seniors would face sharply higher premiums as a result, and the Congressional Budget Office said many would return to traditional Medicare as a result.
    The subsidies are higher than those for seniors on traditional Medicare, a difference that critics complain is wasteful, but insurance industry officials argue goes into expanded benefits.
    Associated Press writers Jim Kuhnhenn and Erica Werner contributed to this report.

  • #2
    Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

    In a speech to the American people immediately after passage of the bill, President Obama remarked, "At a time when the pundits said it was not longer possible, we rose above the weight of our politics…. We proved we are a people capable of doing big things who can tackle our biggest challenges." Also last night, in a letter to supporters, the President said, "We´ll finally start reducing the cost of [health] care – creating millions of jobs, preventing families and businesses from plunging into bankruptcy, and removing over a trillion dollars of debt from the backs of our children."

    http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/147382

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi put a new spin on health care reform during a recent meeting between President Barack Obama and members of Congress.

    "It's about jobs," she said. "In its life [health care reform] will create 4 million jobs, 400,000 jobs almost immediately.

    ...

    "Imagine an economy where people could change jobs, start businesses, become self-employed, whether to pursue their artistic aspirations or be entrepreneurial and start new businesses, if they were not job-locked because they have a child who's bipolar, or a family member who's diabetic with a pre-existing condition, and all of the other constraints that having health care or not having health care places on an entrepreneurial spirit," she said.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-create-thous/

    Delusional ?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

      How much does the demand curve for a service shift when the government requires it?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

        Originally posted by c1ue View Post
        http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Congre...n&asset=&ccode=

        Now the grand experiment begin: can mandatory health insurance WITHOUT an accompanying health care provision system actually provide better car?
        Heading into mid-terms, did the Dems really have any choice? How could they explain to voters their agenda for "change" without anything much to point to since the last election [other than a much larger fiscal deficit and the rapid return of Wall Street bonuses]? I wonder what they would have done if they had not been able to muster the votes to pass this bill...blame it on the Republicans?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

          Originally posted by snakela View Post
          How much does the demand curve for a service shift when the government requires it?
          The demand curve goes away because it becomes irrelevant (regardless of what the supply may be). The price curve however, quickly becomes a hockey stick.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

            Originally posted by D-Mack View Post
            Delusional ?
            Try delusional idiot.

            Attached Files

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

              Originally posted by D-Mack View Post
              Delusional ?
              Overall, probably. However, I have little doubt that a trillion dollars will create a heck of a lot of health care jobs.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

                I would gladly pay if it was a single-payer system; without such a system, it looks like another wealth transfer to the insurance companies. Bad, very bad.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

                  How elastic do you think the demand for essential health services is? Not very.

                  The economics of health care is such that smaller up-front spending can indeed save money by mitigating later major spending.

                  Plus, currently we pay for people anyways. Only we do it in about the most inefficient way imaginable. There is no reason not to get healthy people into the risk pool before they get sick. Or we can let the poor continue taking their sick kids to the emergency room. Fantastic idea, that.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

                    Originally posted by Munger
                    The economics of health care is such that smaller up-front spending can indeed save money by mitigating later major spending.

                    Plus, currently we pay for people anyways. Only we do it in about the most inefficient way imaginable. There is no reason not to get healthy people into the risk pool before they get sick. Or we can let the poor continue taking their sick kids to the emergency room. Fantastic idea, that.
                    All agreed.

                    But how does the present proposal help this?

                    Insurance companies have nearly zero incentive to promulgate preventative medicine - it is far easier to push a 'problem' patient to another company (or out of insurance period).

                    As has been mentioned before - nearly every other nation with national health care also has some form of national health care provision, or in other words supply as well as payment.

                    This is the true travesty of this bill: no attempt whatsoever is made to address the supply issue.

                    Not an extension of the existing VA system for 'basic' health care.

                    Not even a government board which reviews various medical procedures/situations/medications and provides a non-binding independent medical and cost effectiveness rating.

                    The present system is more like a 'sale' in Russia: 50% off, but prices jacked up 80% first.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

                      Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                      All agreed.

                      But how does the present proposal help this?

                      Insurance companies have nearly zero incentive to promulgate preventative medicine - it is far easier to push a 'problem' patient to another company (or out of insurance period).

                      As has been mentioned before - nearly every other nation with national health care also has some form of national health care provision, or in other words supply as well as payment.

                      This is the true travesty of this bill: no attempt whatsoever is made to address the supply issue.

                      Not an extension of the existing VA system for 'basic' health care.

                      Not even a government board which reviews various medical procedures/situations/medications and provides a non-binding independent medical and cost effectiveness rating.

                      The present system is more like a 'sale' in Russia: 50% off, but prices jacked up 80% first.
                      Massive subsidies for insurance companies, no single pay program, no tort reform, and more more middle class pinching through taxes and seigniorage - what's not to like?

                      Look to see more primary care physicians give up and get out of the medicine as their business becomes uneconomical. This is a terrible bill for both patients and providers.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

                        The bill aims to deal with what is seen as a pressing problem for the ruling elite. While corporations, with the collaboration of the unions, have been able to drive down wages and increase productivity, they have not been able to put a brake on spiraling medical costs. These come in the form of increased costs for employee insurance coverage, as well as care for the poor and uninsured who seek medical treatment at emergency rooms and public clinics, thus driving up costs overall.
                        A solution to this problem for big business—one which is addressed by Obama’s health care restructuring—is to dump these more vulnerable sections of the population into bare-bones plans, where limitations are placed on more expensive and “unnecessary” tests, treatments and drugs. These will include stripped-down Medicaid plans, a gutted Medicare program where care is rationed according to “cost effectiveness,” and substandard plans available for purchase on insurance “exchanges.”
                        The health care legislation sets a dangerous precedent for a far broader assault on social programs, elements of which have already been put in motion by the administration. Last month, Obama established by executive order a bipartisan commission on deficits, which will propose measures to slash government spending on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.
                        In the coming period, when millions become clearer on the real implications of the health care bill, the brutal reality will inevitably provoke an enormous sense of betrayal and anger. This will set the stage for the emergence of new forms of struggle as people begin to consider the alternative to a corporate-controlled health care system—that is, one based on a socialist program that begins with basic human needs rather than corporate profit.

                        http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/ma...pers-m22.shtml

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

                          Denninger has an interesting spin on this today:
                          http://market-ticker.denninger.net/a...-The-Dems.html

                          any thoughts on this?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

                            it's a completely unconstitutional power grab. And a total lie of course. Costs will skyrocket. Demand is VERY elastic for health care. Costs will go through the roof inspiring more "reforms". The only hope now is for nullification on the state level. This is TOTALLY unconstitutional not that that every stopped anyone.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Here we go...Health Care 'Reform' passes

                              I am a Democrat who, obviously, voted for Obama. I am confident that the current system will collapse in about two years because people will flee the high cost insurance premiums as unemployment continues to rise and COBRA runs out. I think the new bill is more about preventing this collapse than anything else. It is the worst of all possible worlds. It has been quite a show the Dems and Reps have put on. Speaking as a Progressive I feel totally screwed. Let's cycle the power and reboot the system.

                              Comment

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