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Re: Dragon awakes
Seems to be some strong language from China here.Originally posted by Mega View Post -
Re: Dragon awakes
I suspect thing could get hot.
MikeComment
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Re: Dragon awakes
You cannot have "free trade" with a communist country like China by definition.
"Free Trade" is one of the largest corporate / banking scams perpetuated on the world in history. If you think western banking is corrupt and speculative and mostly insolvent...then just wait until Chinese banking blows up.
Definition of Free: (fr
)adj. fre·er, fre·est
1. Not imprisoned or enslaved; being at liberty.
2. Not controlled by obligation or the will of another: felt free to go.
3. a. Having political independence: "America . . . is the freest and wealthiest nation in the world" (Rudolph W. Giuliani).
b. Governed by consent and possessing or granting civil liberties: a free citizenry.
c. Not subject to arbitrary interference by a government: a free press.Last edited by MulaMan; March 14, 2010, 07:00 PM.Comment
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Re: Dragon awakes
Originally posted by Mega View Post
Dragon? Could be this thread title is inaccurate?
Could be that China is the one that has found itself in a box, with little policy maneuvering room, because no matter what course of action it takes, sooner or later it results in a disaster?
The rhetoric seems quite clear.
1. They are afraid to allow the yuan to appreciate because to do so will further compromise the exports on which China is so dependent...and further increase the already significant unused manufacturing capacity it continues to create...because they just don't know what else to do in the shorter term.
2. They appear equally fearful of trade barriers that block access to their key export markets, no matter what form those barriers may take. The "warning" in the linked article is essentially the same as the appeals the Chinese delegation to Copenhagen made regarding "carbon based tariffs".
3. Finally, they appear fearful of any attempt to reduce the enormous stimulus being applied to the Chinese economy...hence the talk about "double dip". Are they just as frightened of popping the bubbles they are creating as the U.S. Federal Reserve?
Seems pretty certain that the stimulus taps are going to remain wide open in China. That means they are avoiding the "sooner disaster" and opting for the "later". Not surprising...that's what all governments and Central Bankers do. Might as well enjoy the ride while it lasts... :rolleyes:Comment
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Re: Dragon awakes
I found it interesting that in today's 60 minutes piece about the subprime meltdown that the Goldman Sachs headquarters was flying the Chinese flag.Comment
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Re: Dragon awakes
Originally posted by pwcmba View Post
The only flag that should legitimately be flying over that building is...:p
Comment
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Re: Dragon awakes
The US is not exactly a free country either. i.e. the number of people incarcerated a year. The crux of the problem is not whether China is a communist country or a democratic country, but China and India have got too many people. China has 20 million new job seekers a year, India probably the same or even more, the jobs must come from somewhere.
Originally posted by MulaMan View PostYou cannot have "free trade" with a communist country like China by definition.
"Free Trade" is one of the largest corporate / banking scams perpetuated on the world in history. If you think western banking is corrupt and speculative and mostly insolvent...then just wait until Chinese banking blows up.
Definition of Free: [FONT=verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida grande',arial,helvetica,sans-serif]
[/font]
(fr)adj. fre·er, fre·est
1. Not imprisoned or enslaved; being at liberty.
2. Not controlled by obligation or the will of another: felt free to go.
3. a. Having political independence: "America . . . is the freest and wealthiest nation in the world" (Rudolph W. Giuliani).
b. Governed by consent and possessing or granting civil liberties: a free citizenry.
c. Not subject to arbitrary interference by a government: a free press.Last edited by touchring; March 14, 2010, 11:03 PM.Comment
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Re: Dragon awakes
The referenced article is by Evans-Pritchard, someone who I always take with a half-shaker of salt. He does make a couple of useful points however...Originally posted by Mega View PostChina is still a dragon only within its own borders, and a panda outside them..."...Michael Pettis from Beijing University argues that China's reserves of $2.4 trillion - arguably $3 trillion - are a sign of weakness, not strength. Only twice before in modern history has a country has amassed such a stash equal 5pc to 6pc of global GDP: the US in the 1920s, and Japan in the 1980s. Each time preceeded depression.
The reserves cannot be used internally to support China's economy. They are dead weight, beyond any level needed for macro-credibility. Indeed, they are the ultimate indictment of China's dysfunctional strategy, which is to buy $30bn to $40bn of foreign bonds every month to hold down the yuan..."
"...China's over-capacity in steel is now greater than Europe's output..."
"...Any attempt to retaliate by triggering a US bond crisis would rebound against China, and could be stopped - in extremis - by capital controls. Roosevelt changed the rules in 1933. Such things happen. The China-US relationship is no doubt symbiotic, but a clash would not be `mutual assured destruction' as often claimed. Washington would win...
...The Smoot-Hawley lesson is that tariffs have asymmetrical effects. They devastate surplus countries..."
And given the revelations coming out of the Lehman examiner report, and Geithner's potential association with some of the shenanigans, what could be better for an embattled Administration than a trade war with China...especially one that they can accuse China of starting, and then appoint the Treasury Secretary as Supreme Allied Commander to lead the charge, while Congress retreats behind the safety wall of import tariffs it claims will "save jobs".
Lehman report? What Lehman report...:rolleyes:Last edited by GRG55; March 15, 2010, 12:45 AM.Comment
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Re: Dragon awakes
I sense some talking from both sides of ones mouth.
Who the heck has been "manipulating" to the max possible all this time? The Chinese??? Reading the stuff from Zero-Hedge just makes one madder by the minute.Within a month the US Treasury must rule whether China is a "currency manipulator", triggering sanctions under US law. This has been finessed before, but we are in a new world now with America's U6 unemployment at 16.8pc
"It's going to be really hard for them yet again to fudge on the obvious fact that China is manipulating. Without a credible threat, we're not going to get anywhere," said Paul Krugman, this year's Nobel economist.Comment
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