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EU rolls over!

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  • #16
    Re: EU rolls over!

    Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
    Hello Dominique, George here.

    Everything's fine, thanks...other than Athens, which is a bit of a mess after the latest street parties. I really do wish the students would go back to smashing plates in restaurants, instead of store windows in Kolonáki.

    I meant to call earlier, but when I tried to get your number from Sarkozy and then Trichet, can you believe it, both of them denied having it. Angela finally had Schäuble find it for me.

    The Germans? No, they haven't changed their tune. Are we really sure the Germans are Europeans? They are so different from the rest of us. Work, work, work all the time. Silvio's probably right...too much pickled cabbage.

    Yes, I know Sarko, Jean-Claude, José Manuel, Prodi and the others keep saying all the right things...but every time I tell them "Show me the money", they hang up. At least Angela and her henchman banker Weber are straight up with me...they said they wouldn't even lend us a Mercedes hubcap on our credit.

    Listen, I called to confirm that Ada has the beach house ready, and we're both looking forward to seeing you this weekend. Don't forget to bring your swimsuit and your chequebook. Damn good thing the Indians paid cash for all that gold you sold them last year...
    El-Erian Says IMF to Aid Greece After ‘Chicken’ Game

    March 18 (Bloomberg) -- The International Monetary Fund will come to the rescue of debt-strapped Greece after a “game of chicken,” according to Mohamed El-Erian, co-chief investment officer at Pacific Investment Management Co.

    “The IMF will come in, but it’s going to be a bumpy process,” said El-Erian...

    ...

    Is there going to be a fatal collision at the meeting in Brussels later this week, with the rest of the EU driving headlong into a stalled out Greece? :eek:

    Or do they all "successfully drive into the ditch" to avoid it?


    ...There in the road straight ahead
    A car was stalled the engine was dead
    I couldn't stop so I swerved to the right
    I'll never forget the sound that night
    The screaming tires, the busting glass
    The painful scream that I heard last...

    Wayne Cochran; "Last Kiss", 1962

    Gaps in the eurozone ‘football league’

    By Wolfgang Münchau
    Published: March 21 2010 19:35 | Last updated: March 21 2010 19:35

    At last we are heading towards a resolution, albeit a bad one. After weeks of pledges of political and financial support, Angela Merkel appears ready to send Greece crawling to the International Monetary Fund.

    Germany cites legal reasons for its position. In past rulings, its constitutional court has interpreted the stability clauses in European law in the strictest possible sense. These rulings have left a deep impression among government officials. It is hard to say whether this argument is for real or is just an excuse not to sanction a bail-out that would be politically unpopular. It is probably a combination of the two.

    I have heard suggestions that a deal may still be possible at this week’s European summit, but only if everybody were to agree to Germany’s gruesome agenda to reform the stability pact. That would have to include stricter rules and the dreaded exit clause, under which a country could be forced to leave the eurozone against its will. I am not holding my breath.

    But either outcome will mark the beginning of the end of Europe’s economic and monetary union as we know it.

    ...While Greece faces the most acute difficulties, it is not the only member in trouble. There are at least four – Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland – that are probably not in a position to maintain a monetary union with Germany under current policies indefinitely. There may be several more, where the problems are not yet quite so evident. In the presence of extreme current account imbalances and a lack of bail-out or fiscal redistribution mechanisms, a monetary union among such a diverse group of countries is probably not sustainable...

    ...For a start, we have come from a situation in which the “no bail-out” clause of the Maastricht treaty, having been almost universally disbelieved for 10 years, is suddenly 100 per cent credible. The minute the IMF marches into Greece, all ambiguity will end...

    ...In the past, global investors have placed a lot of trust in European politicians. They believed Peer Steinbrück, the former German finance minister, in February 2009 when he ended a speculative attack on Ireland, Greece and others with a simple statement of support. They also believed, as I did myself, that political leaders would ultimately do the right thing to save the system, having first explored all the alternatives. As I follow the political debate in Berlin, I am no longer certain that is the case...

    ...I am not predicting a catastrophe. I am merely pointing out that the present policy choices are inconsistent with the survival of the eurozone in its current form.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: EU rolls over!

      Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
      Is there going to be a fatal collision at the meeting in Brussels later this week, with the rest of the EU driving headlong into a stalled out Greece? :eek:

      Or do they all "successfully drive into the ditch" to avoid it?


      ...
      And this from the always excitable Evans-Pritchard, the link to the full article can be accessed from this thread
      ...So, it is not enough for the EU to impose a fiscal squeeze of 10pc of GDP on Greece, 8pc on Spain, and 6pc on Portugal, and 5pc on France over three years, we need a dose of 1930s monetary policy as well to make sure life is Hell for everybody.

      Be that as it may, Greece’s George Papandreou says his country is in the worst of both worlds, suffering IMF-style austerity without receiving IMF money – which comes cheap at around 3.25pc. So why allow his country to be used as a “guinea pig” – as he put it - by EU factions pursuing conflicting agendas?

      The IMF option has its limits too. The maximum ever lent by the Fund is 12 times quota, or €15bn for Greece, not enough to nurse the country through to June...

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: EU rolls over!

        All this over a mere 20 billion euro in debt about to be rolled over.

        Hardly the EU caving in.

        In fact this will be interesting as the IMF's inability to save the PIIGS itself spawns some interesting scenarios.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: EU rolls over!

          Originally posted by c1ue View Post
          All this over a mere 20 billion euro in debt about to be rolled over.

          Hardly the EU caving in.

          In fact this will be interesting as the IMF's inability to save the PIIGS itself spawns some interesting scenarios.
          It's all one big happy family now...:rolleyes:

          That first condition is a doozy. It implies inability to access capital markets...at any price. At the moment Greece would seem quite some ways from that eventuality.
          Germany sets tough terms for EU help for Greece

          BERLIN/ATHENS
          Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:22pm EDT

          (Reuters) - Germany signaled for the first time on Tuesday that it may accept European financial aid for Greece as a last resort, but only if the IMF is involved and euro zone partners accept tougher budget discipline rules.

          A senior German official spelled out Berlin's conditions for any aid mechanism ahead of an EU summit starting on Thursday:

          * Greece would have to be unable to access credit markets;

          * The International Monetary Fund would have to make a "substantial contribution" to any rescue;

          * European Union states would have to agree to negotiate "additional instruments" to enforce budget discipline, beyond existing rules that failed to prevent Athens running up huge debts and deficits that have shaken the euro zone.

          A source in Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative bloc quoted her as telling lawmakers Germany would only agree to a rescue model combining bilateral and IMF assistance. There would be no decision at this week's summit but a special EU summit would be called to decide if an emergency arose.

          "The condition for action, as a last resort, is that Greece's financing on the capital markets is exhausted," the senior official said...

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: EU rolls over!

            Originally posted by grg55
            That's why I think GaveKal made the correct call on Europe several years ago - the German obsession with fiscal deficits is going to force a deflationary recession across the Euro currency zone.
            shouldn't the euro be strengthening [in a rational world]? they are trying to keep some rules limiting deficits and borrowing. the u.s. has no rules, and will print as necessary. or is the theory that the euro has been kept up by the hopeful belief that the ecb is really the bundesbank in [french] drag? i suppose any question of a bail out undermines the idea that the euro is the reincarnation of the deutsche mark. i would think the euro will rally sharply when germany et al ultimately refuse to do anything for greece. the only question that remains is whether the imf has the capacity to nurse greece through this without an actual default. i think a greek default should be very bullish for the euro.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: EU rolls over!

              Originally posted by jk View Post
              shouldn't the euro be strengthening [in a rational world]? they are trying to keep some rules limiting deficits and borrowing. the u.s. has no rules, and will print as necessary. or is the theory that the euro has been kept up by the hopeful belief that the ecb is really the bundesbank in [french] drag? i suppose any question of a bail out undermines the idea that the euro is the reincarnation of the deutsche mark. i would think the euro will rally sharply when germany et al ultimately refuse to do anything for greece. the only question that remains is whether the imf has the capacity to nurse greece through this without an actual default. i think a greek default should be very bullish for the euro.
              Yes...and no. Might be good for Germany in the long run, but....riddle me these.

              1 ) If Greece defaults, aren't German banks one of the major holders of Greek debt?
              2 ) After Greece, there is Portugal, Spain and Italy.
              3 ) Greek debt (in the event of a default) is more than Lehman. You remember what *that* triggered. Unintended consequences.
              4 ) A plausible rumor is that it won't be Greece leaving the Eurozone in the long run -- it will be Germany.
              5 ) This breakdown is showing the political faultlines in the Euro. For all the faults of the US, it is strong federally (probably *too* strong) and you know what's going on. With the Euro, the story changes by the hour....

              These are some of the reasons the Euro is currently shaky. This is the Euro's *first* real test.....will be interesting to see how it works.

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