Toyota Scare

[BigBagel]

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...afe-enough/?hp

The article claims the Toyota defect raises your chances of dying in a wreck by 19 one-thousandths of one percent.

The defect does increase the chances of political posturing by 10,000%.

[flintlock]

Re: Toyota Scare

I know. You'd think these things were crashing all over the place the way it's reported. Someone did call in a local radio show this morning and say his Toyota took off on him. But that's the first I've heard of in Atlanta.

I was reading up on the situation this afternoon. I think it boils down to either a software glitch or a problem with the throttle body itself. But I suspect just as many are a case of driver error . Reported incidents have shot up since the story broke. Like the woman today who drove off a driveway and crashes. It's just too easy to blame the car and not the driver now.

Not that I care too much about Toyota after the crappy way they treated my wife when her Land Cruiser had a dangerous throttle control problem. I found out later that many other owners had the same problem, but they denied it existed. You'd just lose all throttle control while driving. Engine would drop to idle right in the middle of an intersection. No codes thrown, nothing. That model had a hybrid drive by wire system. So it still had a cable, but I think the TB was still electrically controlled. So I sold it and bought a Ford that has been trouble free for 5 years now. ( knock on wood)

[WildspitzE]

Re: Toyota Scare

Not sure if this has been posted before....

NPR Vehicle Acceleration Complaints Database
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=124235858

[jimmygu3]

Re: Toyota Scare

I know. You'd think these things were crashing all over the place the way it's reported. Someone did call in a local radio show this morning and say his Toyota took off on him. But that's the first I've heard of in Atlanta.

I was reading up on the situation this afternoon. I think it boils down to either a software glitch or a problem with the throttle body itself. But I suspect just as many are a case of driver error . Reported incidents have shot up since the story broke. Like the woman today who drove off a driveway and crashes. It's just too easy to blame the car and not the driver now.

Not that I care too much about Toyota after the crappy way they treated my wife when her Land Cruiser had a dangerous throttle control problem. I found out later that many other owners had the same problem, but they denied it existed. You'd just lose all throttle control while driving. Engine would drop to idle right in the middle of an intersection. No codes thrown, nothing. That model had a hybrid drive by wire system. So it still had a cable, but I think the TB was still electrically controlled. So I sold it and bought a Ford that has been trouble free for 5 years now. ( knock on wood)

I think if nothing else, the Toyota problems are a good reason for everybody to think about what to do in a malfunctioning-vehicle emergency. The fact that the runaway driver the other day was "talked down" by the police shows that it was a combination of a vehicle problem and an unprepared driver. 1) Use the brakes. If that doesn't work, 2) Put the car in neutral and try the brakes again. If that doesn't work, 3) Gradually apply the emergency brake, bring the car to a stop, then turn it off.

I have had 2 such situations. The first was with an '86 Honda Accord that experienced apparent computer-caused acceleration at a stop light after someone improperly added water to my failing battery. The brakes still worked and I was able to pull into a service station and put the car in neutral. New battery, and no more problems.

The second was with a vintage '68 Pontiac I had just bought. I took it to Pep Boys because the brakes didn't work well. I found out later that they didn't even open the master cylinder, which turned out to be clogged with 30 years of sludge. Driving out of Pep Boys, the brakes completely failed on me at 35 mph. I was able to pump them and gradually slow down after swerving into a parking lot to avoid stopped traffic. The emergency brake didn't occur to me until after the fact.

The reality is that vehicles sometimes malfunction, but a prepared driver can safely deal with most of these rare situations.

-Jimmy

[MulaMan]

Re: Toyota Scare

Well I was filling up with gas and my Toyota took off on me, caught in on video so I'm now suing Toyota.

[media][/media]

[D-Mack]

Re: Toyota Scare

Could someone explain to me the love for cars with automatic transmissions outside of Europe?


And why do people not know how to put their cars into N ?

Neutral can be hard to find for those who never use the gear. Nonetheless, Fisher said the tests he has done on cars show that all engines, be they hybrid or conventional, become disengaged from the drive line when they are put into neutral.


"No matter what the situation or what the car was," he said, "if you just put the car into neutral you can safely and easily stop the vehicle."

Fisher says people who own Toyotas, or any other car, should find a safe place and practice putting their cars into neutral as they drive.
http://www.kpbs.org/news/2010/mar/10...cars-run-away/

[flintlock]

Re: Toyota Scare

I like how he keeps on pumping gas, then throws down the pump in disgust, potentially making a bad situation worse.

[GRG55]

Re: Toyota Scare

Could someone explain to me the love for cars with automatic transmissions outside of Europe?...

Some aspects of vehicle emissions requirements are actually more stringent in the USA and Canada than they are in most jurisdictions in Europe. For quite some time now the US EPA has required automobile manufacturers to test and certify every single drivetrain combination they plan to sell in the USA to ensure it meets the EPA's emissions regulations.


By drivetrain combination that means every single combination of engine, transmission and differential/transaxle ratio. The testing procedures are fairly extensive and, I understand, also fairly expensive. This has had two consequences on the North American vehicle market:

1. The number of drivetrain combinations available is reduced, and certain European and Japanese engines and transmissions are simply not available on vehicles marketed in the USA & Canada.
2. Automatic transmissions, which can more easily be controlled by a computer, seem to be preferred by manufacturers to remove/reduce one of the variables [the driver ] that influences emissions, and makes it easier to achieve the EPA certification.

And why do people not know how to put their cars into N ?

Why don't they know how to turn off the key? They do it at the end of every trip, so it's nothing new or unusual to learn...just like every automatic transmission I've ever seen has to be shifted through Neutral to get to any of the forward drive gear selections - you would think people would have some inkling of what the letters PRNDL mean...

[flintlock]

Re: Toyota Scare

Could someone explain to me the love for cars with automatic transmissions outside of Europe?

It allows us to talk on the cell phone with one hand, eat a cheeseburger with the other, and steer with our knees.

[metalman]

Re: Toyota Scare

Why don't they know how to turn off the key? They do it at the end of every trip, so it's nothing new or unusual to learn...just like every automatic transmission I've ever seen has to be shifted through Neutral to get to any of the forward drive gear selections - you would think people would have some inkling of what the letters PRNDL mean...

one word... interlock.

you have to be stopped w/your foot on the brake to shift an auto transmission these days. toyota doesn't offer a manual xmission option for prius... no pushing in the clutch to put her in neutral.

cut holes in the floor to stick your feet out like fred flintstone?

there's always this approach...

[GRG55]

Re: Toyota Scare

one word... interlock.

you have to be stopped w/your foot on the brake to shift an auto transmission these days. toyota doesn't offer a manual xmission option for prius... no pushing in the clutch to put her in neutral.

cut holes in the floor to stick your feet out like fred flintstone?

there's always this approach...

I pretty certain the interlock is only when shifting the transmission out of "Park" after the engine is running. This is one outcome of the infamous Audi "uncontrolled acceleration when in Reverse" from 20 odd years ago. Probably to avoid the tort lawyers the car makers introduced the interlock to make sure the driver had his/her foot on the brake pedal before shifting out of "Park" and into "Reverse".

I am quite certain that if the vehicle is in one of the forward drive gears you can get it all the way to "Neutral" while it is running, and while it is in motion, regardless of whether your foot is on the brake.

By the way, nice Vid. That car he hit must be the only rust free Vega left in America [or anywhere else].

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Toyota Scare

Why don't they know how to turn off the key? They do it at the end of every trip, so it's nothing new or unusual to learn...just like every automatic transmission I've ever seen has to be shifted through Neutral to get to any of the forward drive gear selections - you would think people would have some inkling of what the letters PRNDL mean...

What people know in a panic (and what they know in a committee) is sometimes quite a bit less than they claim to know while drinking a beer with their buddies or posting on the web.

[GRG55]

Re: Toyota Scare

What people know in a panic (and what they know in a committee) is sometimes quite a bit less than they claim to know while drinking a beer with their buddies or posting on the web.

The "panic" issue is valid and very real.

A good part of my early career was spent working in "sour" natural gas production. Sour natural gas contains hydrogen-sulphide, which is a deadly toxin even in very small quantities. A lot of effort is invested in training, procedures and equipment, including the proper use of self contained breathing apparatus, for people working in sour gas environments. Incidents are rare, but when they happen the chances of a fatality are high if proper actions aren't taken immediately by the safety-man.

Despite the repetitive training, despite the procedures and mock drills, despite having all the required equipment immediately to hand, in some cases safety men observing a workmate go down would rush into the release zone without first donning their own breathing apparatus - exactly what they were taught not to do. In every such instance it meant two rescues instead of one, and in a few cases the result was two fatalities.

Training aircraft pilots involves the same challenge...an improper action in response to a routine situation can create a disasterous result. The Colgan Air/Continental Connection Flt 3407 turboprop crash at Buffalo a year ago is a classic example of this...the pilot's initial and continuing reaction was exactly the opposite of what he had been trained to do, and fifty lives and a perfectly good airplane were destroyed.

So, I agree, it's difficult to know how the human mind will respond in conditions of surprise and panic...compared to the relaxed environment of a beer with buddies...;)

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Toyota Scare

A key aspect of responding properly to an emergency is to stay "inside the loop." So long as one's mental awareness stays ahead of the events coming at you, you can "stay on top of things" and respond as you were trained or as your more sensible analysis recommends. But once you "get behind the curve" your primitive brain takes over, and your life, if you're lucky, may be in the skilled hands of some EMT.

This is the essential reason it is important to stay alert and aware of ones surroundings when driving. When things go wrong, you don't want to enter the moment in a state of panic.

[GRG55]

Re: Toyota Scare

...When things go wrong, you don't want to enter the moment in a state of panic.

Or with a cell phone in one hand and a cheeseburger in the other, while steering with your knees?