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  • Unintended Consequences?

    March 3, 2010
    Darwin Foes Add Warming to Targets

    By LESLIE KAUFMAN

    Critics of the teaching of evolution in the nation’s classrooms are gaining ground in some states by linking the issue to global warming, arguing that dissenting views on both scientific subjects should be taught in public schools.

    In Kentucky, a bill recently introduced in the Legislature would encourage teachers to discuss “the advantages and disadvantages of scientific theories,” including “evolution, the origins of life, global warming and human cloning.”

    The bill, which has yet to be voted on, is patterned on even more aggressive efforts in other states to fuse such issues. In Louisiana, a law passed in 2008 says the state board of education may assist teachers in promoting “critical thinking” on all of those subjects.

    Last year, the Texas Board of Education adopted language requiring that teachers present all sides of the evidence on evolution and global warming.
    Oklahoma introduced a bill with similar goals in 2009, although it was not enacted.

    The linkage of evolution and global warming is partly a legal strategy: courts have found that singling out evolution for criticism in public schools is a violation of the separation of church and state. By insisting that global warming also be debated, deniers of evolution can argue that they are simply championing academic freedom in general.

    Yet they are also capitalizing on rising public resistance in some quarters to accepting the science of global warming, particularly among political conservatives who oppose efforts to rein in emissions of greenhouse gases.

    In South Dakota, a resolution calling for the “balanced teaching of global warming in public schools” passed the Legislature this week.

    “Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant,” the resolution said, “but rather a highly beneficial ingredient for all plant life.”

    The measure made no mention of evolution, but opponents of efforts to dilute the teaching of evolution noted that the language was similar to that of bills in other states that had included both. The vote split almost entirely along partisan lines in both houses, with Republican voting for it and Democrats voting against.

    For mainstream scientists, there is no credible challenge to evolutionary theory. They oppose the teaching of alternative views like intelligent design, the proposition that life is so complex that it must be the design of an intelligent being. And there is wide agreement among scientists that global warming is occurring and that human activities are probably driving it. Yet many conservative evangelical Christians assert that both are examples of scientists’ overstepping their bounds.



    Lawrence M. Krauss, a physicist who directs the Origins Initiative at Arizona State University and has spoken against efforts to water down the teaching of evolution to school boards in Texas and Ohio, described the move toward climate-change skepticism as a predictable offshoot of creationism.

    “Wherever there is a battle over evolution now,” he said, “there is a secondary battle to diminish other hot-button issues like Big Bang and, increasingly, climate change. It is all about casting doubt on the veracity of science — to say it is just one view of the world, just another story, no better or more valid than fundamentalism.”

    Not all evangelical Christians reject the notion of climate change, of course. There is a budding green evangelical movement in the country driven partly by a belief that because God created the earth, humans are obligated to care for it.

    Yet there is little doubt that the skepticism about global warming resonates more strongly among conservatives, and Christian conservatives in particular. A survey published in October by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found that white evangelical Protestants were among those least likely to believe that there was “solid evidence” that the Earth was warming because of human activity.

    Only 23 percent of those surveyed accepted that idea, compared with 36 percent of the American population as a whole.

    The Rev. Jim Ball, senior director for climate programs at the Evangelical Environmental Network, a group with members who accept the science of global warming, said that many of the deniers feel that “it is hubris to think that human beings could disrupt something that God created.”

    “This group already feels like scientists are attacking their faith and calling them idiots,” he said, “so they are likely to be skeptical” about global warming.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/sc...limate.html?hp

  • #2
    Re: Unintended Consequences?

    Education is about critical thinking and knowledge. Indoctrination is about following and believing. There is a difference between a story and a theory. There is a difference between confidence and faith.

    We should leave no stone unturned when considering all ideas to understand the world but borrowing the validation of a process adjudicated by reason to try to infer validation of a faith is inconsistent with both.

    A knife and a fork are useful tools for eating but if you use a knife as a fork you are probably going to cut your tongue.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Unintended Consequences?

      Originally posted by don View Post
      “This group already feels like scientists are attacking their faith and calling them idiots,” he said,
      Well...if you believe the earth is flat, and in the arc, and that the universe is only 2,000 years old, ... then you ARE an idiot.

      The real question is why/how do such idiots in America have enough political power to even get ideas such as this on the table?

      If America keeps going down this same path, then I could see a reverse migration of educated, civilized humans out of America back to the old country (Europe) much of which is having declning population issues.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Unintended Consequences?

        There is no scientific dissent about the broad outlines of global warming or evolution.

        Both fields have plenty of dissent dressed up in scientific-sounding babble, but science is a process - not just numbers and arguments that seem reasonable to people ignorant of the field.

        No process = no science.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Unintended Consequences?

          Originally posted by MulaMan View Post

          If America keeps going down this same path, then I could see a reverse migration of educated, civilized humans out of America back to the old country (Europe) much of which is having declning population issues.
          I certainly feel compelled.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Unintended Consequences?

            Originally posted by MulaMan View Post

            The real question is why/how do such idiots in America have enough political power to even get ideas such as this on the table?
            The oligarchy prefers an uneducated, superstitious and dogmatically religious population. Easier to control and exploit them. They buy broadcast networks and newspapers then cover the crackpots on page one.

            Main technique is "presenting both sides of the argument". It elevates the crackpot idea to the same level as the sound science. While fair-minded and educated people accept it as a polite way to briefly discuss then utterly dismiss the crackpot, vast multitudes of slack-jawed TV watchers take away that both are equivalent, the issue is undecided, and one could reasonably believe either.

            The other big technique is to have a shill make a wild accusation, then seriously cover and discuss the wild accusation – “some people are claiming that…”

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Unintended Consequences?

              Originally posted by don View Post
              intelligent design, the proposition that life is so complex that it must be the design of an intelligent being
              If the right-wing Christians want to teach intelligent design in the schools, fine with me. . . as long as they teach that Life could be the work of ANY intelligent creator, such as:

              1. The God of the Muslims
              2. The God of the Jews
              3. The God of the Zoroastrians
              4. The Gods of the various animistic native Africa religions and others elsewhere.
              5. Buddha
              6. Brahma (the Hindu creator)
              7. Space Aliens
              8. A God unknown to us
              8. . . . . or even the Christian God

              America is a religiously diverse country . . . and if they want to bring religion into public schools, they should honor freedom of religion, which means all religions should be represented.

              Of course, most religious people believe their god is THE God.
              Gasp :eek: What if they picked the wrong pony . . . then they won't get into Heaven. :eek: :eek: This emotional mandate of exclusivity in most religious beliefs will probably overpower Constitutional freedom of religion . . . ensuring instead majority rule by the Christians.
              Onward Christian soldiers! You're serving the One and Only God and you KNOW just what he wants you to do.
              Just like Goldman Sachs -- doing God's work
              raja
              Boycott Big Banks • Vote Out Incumbents

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Unintended Consequences?

                Originally posted by sunskyfan View Post
                Education is about critical thinking and knowledge. Indoctrination is about following and believing. There is a difference between a story and a theory. There is a difference between confidence and faith.

                We should leave no stone unturned when considering all ideas to understand the world but borrowing the validation of a process adjudicated by reason to try to infer validation of a faith is inconsistent with both.

                A knife and a fork are useful tools for eating but if you use a knife as a fork you are probably going to cut your tongue.
                I pretty much agree with what you say except the HORRIBLE analogy of knife and work and biting your tongue?? Whatever on that one.

                But critical thinking is very important. For example -
                Say the sun worshiping cultures - Were they really just worshiping the sun? They obviously knew astronomy and could calculate solstices! So what's that about? Perhaps it was a poetic homage - That this far away star where burning heat turns to light for us and is the direct cause of us as human beings having the gift of sight. And so the pre-eminence in many cultures of the God of the Sun. Not for the Sun -but the understanding that with out this phenomena we see as light -we would have no sight. That with which we see and appreciate the world. That shapes the most powerful shape of desire and inquiry -too sides of the same coin. It is a very sophisticated answer to what would appear to primal sun worship.

                I would welcome such thinking and discussion. They should be taught Karl Popper and Taleb Nassem and critical thinking and logic texts. I think then the kids should and would be free to examine anything they wish and come to their own conclusions. But this may not prevent:

                The power to fit in with one’s social peers can be irresistible. To a human lemming, the logic behind an opinion doesn’t count as much as the power and popularity behind an opinion.

                What can I say -but you tried. People always act as if a bunch of educated people didn't join the Nazis, or resist in Rwanda, or stop the inquisition - a lot of learned people simply went along and got along.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Unintended Consequences?

                  Originally posted by raja View Post
                  If the right-wing Christians want to teach intelligent design in the schools, fine with me. . . as long as they teach that Life could be the work of ANY intelligent creator, such as:

                  1. The God of the Muslims
                  2. The God of the Jews
                  3. The God of the Zoroastrians
                  4. The Gods of the various animistic native Africa religions and others elsewhere.
                  5. Buddha
                  6. Brahma (the Hindu creator)
                  7. Space Aliens
                  8. A God unknown to us
                  8. . . . . or even the Christian God

                  America is a religiously diverse country . . . and if they want to bring religion into public schools, they should honor freedom of religion, which means all religions should be represented.

                  Of course, most religious people believe their god is THE God.
                  Gasp :eek: What if they picked the wrong pony . . . then they won't get into Heaven. :eek: :eek: This emotional mandate of exclusivity in most religious beliefs will probably overpower Constitutional freedom of religion . . . ensuring instead majority rule by the Christians.
                  Onward Christian soldiers! You're serving the One and Only God and you KNOW just what he wants you to do.
                  Just like Goldman Sachs -- doing God's work
                  Ah Raj - I am an orthodox Christian and I have no interest of any religious teaching in public schools as I would not want Christian Children exposed to the list of theories above. FYI you have some very fundatmental misunderstandings of religions based on this post.

                  Cindy
                  Last edited by cindykimlisa; March 04, 2010, 09:59 PM. Reason: add a word

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Unintended Consequences?

                    Originally posted by raja View Post
                    ...Of course, most religious people believe their god is THE God. Gasp :eek: What if they picked the wrong pony . . . then they won't get into Heaven...
                    What many [not necessarily most] "religious people" believe is that their truth is The Truth...and therein lies the real problem...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Unintended Consequences?

                      Originally posted by cindykimlisa View Post
                      Ah Raj - I am an orthodox Christian and I have no interest of any religious teaching in public schools as I would not want Christian Children exposed to the list of theories above. FYI you have some very fundatmental misunderstandings of religions based on this post.

                      Cindy
                      As I completely agree with what raja - and basically everyone else said about the topic - I'm wondering what fundamental misunderstandings of religion are present in the post?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Unintended Consequences?

                        All this discussion in the USA is just incredible when seen from many other countries.
                        I can´t just imagine it in most of Latin America, Europe or Asia.
                        Another sign of the decline of the American Empìre.
                        How will people which believe in creationism understand how the real world works?
                        A country with so many people believing those kind of things can only go back in the international competition.
                        Because you can be religious and understand that the laws governing chemistry and biology were created by some superior being.
                        But deniyng evolution because some old legend says otherwise is sheer ignorance.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Unintended Consequences?

                          Originally posted by Southernguy View Post
                          Because you can be religious and understand that the laws governing chemistry and biology were created by some superior being.
                          But deniyng evolution because some old legend says otherwise is sheer ignorance.
                          Bingo.

                          for example:

                          http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolu...devilution.htm

                          Evolution: Vehicle of Apostasy! Destination: the New World Order!

                          In order to achieve such a diabolical plot, Satan needed to remove from men's minds their individualism, love for family, national patriotism, and faith in the God of the Bible. Don't believe it? It was Communist sicko, God-hater, and traitor, George Brock Chisholm, who stated back in 1954...

                          "To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family tradition, national patriotism, and religious dogmas."

                          SOURCE: Speech, Conference on Education, Asilomar, California, September 11, 1954

                          Chisholm had been obsessed for years with the idea that instilling concepts of right and wrong, love of country, and morality in children by their parents is the paramount evil...

                          The people who have been taught to believe whatever they were told by their parents or their teachers are the people who are the menace to the world.

                          SOURCE: Speech, Conference on Education, Asilomar, California, September 11, 1954

                          Thus, Evolution was organized into a religion in the late 19th century to accomplish this evil. In 1859, Darwin published The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, and in 1871, The Descent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex. It was also in the 19th century that America witnessed the beginnings of Mormonism, the Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh-Day Adventism, and a host of other false religions, all sharing the common denominator of Freemasonry! Please read, Religions: The Occult Connection. It is no coincidence that Evolution, numerous false religions, Westcott and Hort's corrupting of the Bible, Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto, Catholicism, and a host of other evils all became major influences upon America in the the late 19th century. Of course, occult Freemason has been the major demonic influence upon America, controlling our federal government since its inception in 1776. These are all Satanic influences, intended to lure mankind into self-made bondage, achieving a Global Police State, and ultimately leading men into Hellfire. Remember, Satan is the god of this world (2nd Corinthians 4:4).

                          Creation Science was the prevailing belief system before the rise of geology in the late 18th Century. The early European scientists, from Galileo, to Copernicus, to Newton, all believed in a literal interpretation of the Bible's account of Creation. Historians have made many estimates for the date of creation, including 3761, 3928, 4004, and 4456 BCE. The most generally accepted date was established by Bishop Ussher: 4004-OCT-22 BCE.

                          With the rise of the scientific intelligencia, and the woeful apostasy of modern times, the ridiculous THEORIES of the origin of the universe have been used by Satan as a Trojan Horse for many other sins.


                          etc.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Unintended Consequences?

                            All of this is simply a political side show.

                            Of all the scientific theories, the origin of life has the least evidence. We have never observed evolution in a test tube even with rapidly evolving bacteria. We have never observed organic chemicals spontaneously organizing as self replicating life forms. We have, at best, many clues that seem to indicate evolution - but as far as using the scientific method to prove this fact? It cannot, and has not, been done. We simply don't know, and considering how unimportant the question is, we'll probably never know. Considering how much we DO known about science, why focus on acceptance of this dogma?

                            Because it is a way to shatter local cultures and distract the masses from what is really going on.

                            Selection is not the issue. Every country bumpkin out there knows selective breeding works. They do it with their stock animals and dogs. They did it with slaves. Hell, they had laws against miscegenation until 1967.

                            I submit that discussing the origins of species is really not essential to understanding science. It is better left as part of a philosophy discussion, which the Federal Government will never advocate as that might actually teach children to think.

                            Truly, everyone is afraid Darwin isn't being taught in schools when 99% of American kids don't even know who Plato is? Kids should be reading Plato in grade school.

                            As for environmentalism, I would read this article.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Unintended Consequences?

                              Originally posted by Serge_Tomiko View Post
                              All of this is simply a political side show.
                              Agreed.

                              The proper moral basis for a healthy society depends on people acting responsibly toward their environment and their fellow humans. Divisive controversies distract from this.
                              Most folks are good; a few aren't.

                              Comment

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