U.S. Probes Bearish Euro Bets SAC, Greenlight, Soros, Paulson Told to Retain Records;

[D-Mack]

U.S. Probes Bearish Euro Bets

SAC, Greenlight, Soros, Paulson Told to Retain Records; a Collusion Question



By SUSAN PULLIAM And KATE KELLY

The Justice Department has launched an investigation into whether hedge funds might have banded together to drive down the value of the euro, people familiar with the matter say.
In a letter last week, the department has asked hedge funds including SAC Capital Advisors LP, Greenlight Capital Inc., Soros Fund Management LLC and Paulson & Co. to retain trading records and emails relating to the euro, say people who have seen the letter.



The letter was dated Feb. 26, the same day a page-one article in The Wall Street Journal outlined a large bet being made in recent weeks by heavyweight hedge funds against the euro, in moves that are reminiscent of the trading action at the height of the financial crisis like bets against Lehman Brothers and other troubled firms.
The Journal article disclosed that the big euro bets were emerging amid gatherings including an "idea dinner" involving a number of hedge funds including SAC, Greenlight and Soros, where a trader argued that the euro is likely to fall to "parity," or equal to, against the dollar on an exchange basis. The euro currently trades at $1.3609.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...es_LEFTTopNews

They were just doing their patriotic duty...

[MulaMan]

Re: U.S. Probes Bearish Euro Bets SAC, Greenlight, Soros, Paulson Told to Retain Records;

The entire Greek thing seems like a geopolitical fight. The question a real journalist should research is who is on the losing side of the Soros, SAC, .. trade....could it be Goldman? JPM?

Option A: Bail out Greece - who wins? who gets the taxpayer money, is it another pay out Goldman and JPM swaps?

Option B: Let Greece crash - who wins? who would lose?

Seems the entire thing has nothing to do with the people of Greece or Europe but about some huge speculative bets on Greece and the Euro based on geopolitics.

So now big money is rolling out $$$ to influence the geopolitical macro result. My money is on Fox News rolling out the "George Soros is a communist" campaign any day now - then you can bank on Goldman as the wrong side of the trade if there is no bailout of Greece.

[FrankL]

Re: U.S. Probes Bearish Euro Bets SAC, Greenlight, Soros, Paulson Told to Retain Records;

The entire Greek thing seems like a geopolitical fight. The question a real journalist should research is who is on the losing side of the Soros, SAC, .. trade....could it be Goldman? JPM?

Option A: Bail out Greece - who wins? who gets the taxpayer money, is it another pay out Goldman and JPM swaps?

Option B: Let Greece crash - who wins? who would lose?

Seems the entire thing has nothing to do with the people of Greece or Europe but about some huge speculative bets on Greece and the Euro based on geopolitics.

So now big money is rolling out $$$ to influence the geopolitical macro result. My money is on Fox News rolling out the "George Soros is a communist" campaign any day now - then you can bank on Goldman as the wrong side of the trade if there is no bailout of Greece.

I'm inclined to agree.

What strikes me, is the position ZeroHedge takes when reporting on Greece.

It's so blatently biased that either the owner of ZeroHedge is a complete idiot (which I doubt consider the amount of succesfull articles), or maybe he receives some money for taking certain positions in his articles? I'm trying to come up with any plausible alternative why the constant drivel about Greece is posted there, but up to now keep failing to.

[icm63]

Re: U.S. Probes Bearish Euro Bets SAC, Greenlight, Soros, Paulson Told to Retain Records;

The Justice Department has launched an investigation into whether hedge funds might have banded together to drive down the value of the euro, people familiar with the matter say.

Soooooo what...

Whats the diff between a bunch of mates having dinner working out next weeks market plays.

Or what about a bunch of central banks having a conference call to pump up bonds or stock markets or attack gold.

[Starving Steve]

Re: U.S. Probes Bearish Euro Bets SAC, Greenlight, Soros, Paulson Told to Retain Records;

The markets are very manipulated. One day speculators pile-on in one direction, and the next day, they pile-on again and maybe in the reverse direction. What is new is that Goldman-Sachs seems to direct the speculators on how to pile-on. The speculation is so massive that the entire world's monetary system is at risk of a panic. This kind of speculation is unwarranted and very dangerous to the entire world's economy. That is why the Justice Department in the U.S. needs to put a stop to this bullshit, because we can't go on like this much longer.

Goldman-Sachs should have been allowed to fail because they contribute nothing to the world's economy. I blame Bernanke for this because he insisted that a bail-out of Goldman-Sachs was necessary.

[raja]

Re: U.S. Probes Bearish Euro Bets SAC, Greenlight, Soros, Paulson Told to Retain Records;

Soooooo what...

Whats the diff between a bunch of mates having dinner working out next weeks market plays.

Or what about a bunch of central banks having a conference call to pump up bonds or stock markets or attack gold.

Motive . . . .

Central banks should be acting in the interest of their respective countries (in theory), whereas these other guys are just gamblers who couldn't care less about people's welfare.

The gamblers had better watch their step . . . .

[ax]

Re: U.S. Probes Bearish Euro Bets SAC, Greenlight, Soros, Paulson Told to Retain Records;

Motive . . . .

Central banks should be acting in the interest of their respective countries (in theory), whereas these other guys are just gamblers who couldn't care less about people's welfare.

The gamblers had better watch their step . . . .

Or what? They'll be rewarded with billions in free loans that they can then earn 3% on? They'll achieve record bonuses (looks like closer to $300 billion last year)? They'll be allowed to help entire countries hide their national debt? The complete lack of global outrage over the last 2 years is shocking. When Bernanke announced that our economy is in the crapper and will be for the for foreseeable future, and the markets subsequently went up, it was yet another jolt for me that we have no chance in this game. Trying to patiently wait for the next collapse. It's tough.

[don]

Re: U.S. Probes Bearish Euro Bets SAC, Greenlight, Soros, Paulson Told to Retain Records;

Best Bet: Short Justice ;)

[pianodoctor]

Re: U.S. Probes Bearish Euro Bets SAC, Greenlight, Soros, Paulson Told to Retain Records;

I just want to say thanks to D-Mack for posting the article. I was unaware of this risk of the Euro declining so much against the dollar. I had a security that was largely a bet on Euro (and to a lesser extent other Western currencies) strength vs the dollar. While I know the Euro decline v the dollar is not a sure bet, I wouldn't have been able to stomach it if it did happen. So I just sold it at break-even, which feels acceptable.

Parity? Could the Euro really reach parity with the dollar? Wow.

[GRG55]

Re: U.S. Probes Bearish Euro Bets SAC, Greenlight, Soros, Paulson Told to Retain Records;

I just want to say thanks to D-Mack for posting the article. I was unaware of this risk of the Euro declining so much against the dollar. I had a security that was largely a bet on Euro (and to a lesser extent other Western currencies) strength vs the dollar. While I know the Euro decline v the dollar is not a sure bet, I wouldn't have been able to stomach it if it did happen. So I just sold it at break-even, which feels acceptable.

Parity? Could the Euro really reach parity with the dollar? Wow.

It was well below the Dollar when it first went into widespread circulation, so I see no reason that a return to par would be that surprising?

[D-Mack]

Re: U.S. Probes Bearish Euro Bets SAC, Greenlight, Soros, Paulson Told to Retain Records;

It made a new low against Gold

Euro-denominated gold hit a record high of 836.72 euros an ounce, up from 823.66 euros late on Monday, while gold priced in sterling touched a record 759.86 pounds an ounce, up from 744.85 pounds.
"Gold denominated in euros has definitely outperformed the drop in euro-dollar by almost 1 percent in the last 10 days," said Mitsubishi Corp precious metals strategist Tom Kendall. "That does reflect some nervousness about stability of sovereign debt, and stability of the euro itself."
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61L3UQ20100302

[jpatter666]

Re: U.S. Probes Bearish Euro Bets SAC, Greenlight, Soros, Paulson Told to Retain Records;

It was well below the Dollar when it first went into widespread circulation, so I see no reason that a return to par would be that surprising?

I think it's quite possible. The problem is the EU *still* has not come to agreement as to how they are going to resolve the financial issues of the Club Med countries. The Nordic countries want austerity, the Club Med countries, inflation [France seems to be straddling the fence as always]. And until that is resolved, I expect the Euro to long-term decline against the dollar and especially gold (although there may be some serious bounces along the way).

Even if Greece gets a bailout -- will the public (both Germany *and* Greece) accept it?

Will the bond markets believe it?

And in the batter's box, Portugal -- with the cleanup crew of Spain and Italy following. All likely this year.

[pianodoctor]

Re: U.S. Probes Bearish Euro Bets SAC, Greenlight, Soros, Paulson Told to Retain Records;

It seems to me that if iTulip (and EJ) has one overarching theme, it's that 'serious and significant decline of the dollar is inevitable'. But isn't the Dollar Index primarily figured against major currencies heavily weighted with the Euro? And if so, how much of a 'fly in the ointment' would the Euro declining to dollar parity be for those taking the 'dollar bearish' bets?

[jpatter666]

Re: U.S. Probes Bearish Euro Bets SAC, Greenlight, Soros, Paulson Told to Retain Records;

It seems to me that if iTulip (and EJ) has one overarching theme, it's that 'serious and significant decline of the dollar is inevitable'. But isn't the Dollar Index primarily figured against major currencies heavily weighted with the Euro? And if so, how much of a 'fly in the ointment' would the Euro declining to dollar parity be for those taking the 'dollar bearish' bets?

Depends on what you are comparing to. But yes, a serious Euro decline would definitely be good for DXY (if that what you were using).

It is certainly possible for fiat currencies to go all over the place w/regard to each other while they *all* decline against gold.