Zero Hedge making cases for physical gold

[jpatter666]

Haven't come out and flat out said it, but these two postings probably will make jtabeb happy....

German TV station ProSieben finds what appears to be some evocative proof of gold counterfeiting, in the form of tungsten gold substitutes coming to the W.C.Heraeus foundry, which is the world's largest privately-owned precious metals refiner and fabricator, located in Hanau, Germany. The foundry has isolated at least one 500-gram tungsten bar due for melting, originating from a (so far) unnamed bank, which as the head of the foundry stated made the unpleasant discovery that "not all the glitters is gold."

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ger...ry-bank-origin

Following up on the earlier post in which German TV station ProSieben has disclosed proof of the existence of tungsten "gold" bars in circulation within the bank community, we share with you the following highly informative presentation by Adrian Douglas of Market Force Analysis titled "LBMA OTC Market - "Alchemists" Turn Paper Into Gold." For anyone who has even a passing interest into what, as the author characterizes, could possibly be "the next Madoff scandal, except multiplied by 100", we recommend reading this paper.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/exp...et-association

[D-Mack]

Re: Zero Hedge making cases for physical gold

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKczs-7BFRI

missed that show

http://www.prosieben.de/tv/galileo/v...009-1.1229578/

[Rotwang]

Re: Zero Hedge making cases for physical gold

I like the reference to the guy "who didn't like it", so they decided to cut it. This in a shop basically littered with capital equipment. They could have used an ultrasonic thickness gauge. Would have detected the fraud with no problem. No reason for destructive verification.

http://www.olympus-ims.com/en/applic...ckness-gaging/

[jacobdcoates]

Re: Zero Hedge making cases for physical gold

It would only tell you the total thickness of the material, not if there we different layers in that material.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Zero Hedge making cases for physical gold

This sounds like a case for NOT buying gold! Why do you think your ability to detect fake gold is going to be better than these guys?

You want to protect your capital, invest in a local and USEFUL business you can control and nourish.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Zero Hedge making cases for physical gold

Physical gold has proven to be the best of all investments, but it has its risks too: a.) tungsten counterfeits and other delivery risks; b.) the risks in storage; c.) the risk of deflation; d.) the tax head-aches upon sale later on; e.) spouses and kids who want their cut; f.) government re-call of gold; g.) money-laundering audits; h.) dying before you sell the gold; i.) forgetting where you put your gold; j.) govn't audits of safe deposit boxes.

King Tuttenkommen had the best idea; i.e, to be buried with your gold next to you inside your tomb.

Speaking of risks in storage, one day I was summoned into the bank where I had kept my gold, and I found the safe deposit box door had fallen-off. My safe deposit box was exposed.... Horrified, I counted the gold inside my safe deposit box, and verified that nothing was missing. The door had just gotten old; its hinges had worn thru the pins that pinned the safe-deposit box door in place..... I was lucky. Had the bank tellers been dis-honest, they would have stolen my gold, but they were all honest and everything worked-out well. We all had a good laugh about the door having fallen-off and having been found on the bank's vault floor in the morning.

[Rotwang]

Re: Zero Hedge making cases for physical gold

It would only tell you the total thickness of the material, not if there we different layers in that material.

Actually, it would read out thickness based on what material (Au, Ag, Pt, W etc. you would have set it up for (sound-velocity). So if you had it set for Au, and the bar reads out different than your ruler (thumb, length of whatever) you can scan your bars without destroying them.

Since the sound-speed for W is almost twice that of Au.

[Rotwang]

Re: Zero Hedge making cases for physical gold

This sounds like a case for NOT buying gold! Why do you think your ability to detect fake gold is going to be better than these guys?

You want to protect your capital, invest in a local and USEFUL business you can control and nourish.

I don't think it is better. I merely pointed out what I thought was hype in the Tungsten scare, and that you can verify non-destructively. I think the risk of Tungsten in bullion coin is miniscule.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Zero Hedge making cases for physical gold

A bullion coin that is filled with W (wolfram which is the old word for tungsten) would be struck shallowly because W is a hard metal to strike for coin design. Gold coins have their full-strike, their lustre, their lovely ring when you clank them on a granite counter, and W-fakes would be obvious.

The old way of spotting a counterfeit was the nitric acid test, but that involves sawing into the coin. The sawing would also tell the story: Au is soft, and W is hard. W would squeal as you file into the coin, whereas Au would remain quiet. W would also be white, and gold would be gold, of course. So the saw groove would be white with a fake.

Once into the coin, drop the nitric. The nitric acid would barely stain the 900 fine gold and do nothing at all to 999 fine gold. A W-fake would fizz and erupt and smoke and steam and go nutz with nitric, not so with real gold.

Ultra-sound is the new way to test for counterfeits. What does an utlra-sound testing device cost and where do you get one? Nitric has been all but outlawed now worldwide in the war on terrorism because nitric acid is useful in bomb-building. So utlra-sound is the way to go now to test for gold.

[aaron]

Re: Zero Hedge making cases for physical gold

This sounds like a case for NOT buying gold! Why do you think your ability to detect fake gold is going to be better than these guys?
.

Blaze, I suspect not everyone keeps their gold in 400 ounce bars... My friend stores his gold in the form of Maples and Eagles. I suppose they could be tungsten, but not likely. I believe that is the kind of gold zerohedge was talking about.

But, yes a business would be good. However, how much capital should one invest in today's economy? In our previously capitalistic society, you could start that business with far more confidence in its future viability.

[Rotwang]

Re: Zero Hedge making cases for physical gold

A bullion coin that is filled with W (wolfram which is the old word for tungsten) would be struck shallowly because W is a hard metal to strike for coin design. Gold coins have their full-strike, their lustre, their lovely ring when you clank them on a granite counter, and W-fakes would be obvious.

The old way of spotting a counterfeit was the nitric acid test, but that involves sawing into the coin. The sawing would also tell the story: Au is soft, and W is hard. W would squeal as you file into the coin, whereas Au would remain quiet. W would also be white, and gold would be gold, of course. So the saw groove would be white with a fake.

Once into the coin, drop the nitric. The nitric acid would barely stain the 900 fine gold and do nothing at all to 999 fine gold. A W-fake would fizz and erupt and smoke and steam and go nutz with nitric, not so with real gold.

Ultra-sound is the new way to test for counterfeits. What does an utlra-sound testing device cost and where do you get one? Nitric has been all but outlawed now worldwide in the war on terrorism because nitric acid is useful in bomb-building. So utlra-sound is the way to go now to test for gold.

W from the periodic table. Tungsten from the swedish "heavy stone".

I don't have one myself. I do however get in to many scientific applications. And I don't have any 400 oz. GDBs either. I don't suspect bullion coin would be the prime target for tungsten adulteration.

Here are a few links:
http://www.ndtsystems.com/Thickness_...FRmjagodZg50uQ
http://www.olympus-ims.com/en/thickness/
http://www.ultrasonicthicknessgauge.com/

A Google search with "ultrasonic thickness gauge" will turn up quite a bit.
There are not all that many substitutes for materials with 19.3 specific gravity besides W. The others are likely to be much too expensive to make any forgeries worthwhile.

On the "safety deposit box". Washington Mutual (before they succumed) sent out a circular. Can't keep gold bullion in their boxes.

The "tungsten" forgery stories should scare central bankers and very rich investors. Quite an operation to inject these items into the deliverable stream.

[Morelia]

Re: Zero Hedge making cases for physical gold

You want to protect your capital, invest in a local and USEFUL business you can control and nourish.

word.

all gold is fool's gold.

AU: the element of sissies.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Zero Hedge making cases for physical gold

Blaze, I suspect not everyone keeps their gold in 400 ounce bars... My friend stores his gold in the form of Maples and Eagles. I suppose they could be tungsten, but not likely. I believe that is the kind of gold zerohedge was talking about.

But, yes a business would be good. However, how much capital should one invest in today's economy? In our previously capitalistic society, you could start that business with far more confidence in its future viability.

When you buy gold, you're just buying fear.

Even if things are changing, I'm sure there are business which will succeed in such an environment. Make money and help people adjust to the new realities.

[WDCRob]

Re: Zero Hedge making cases for physical gold

And what do you recommend for people without the aptitude or interest in owning/running a business?

Or are you suggesting that people should be allowed to do whatever they want, except save their money as they see fit?

[Morelia]

Re: Zero Hedge making cases for physical gold

And what do you recommend for people without the aptitude or interest in owning/running a business?

become a valuable employee.

Or are you suggesting that people should be allowed to do whatever they want, except save their money as they see fit?

i don't pay my employees enough for them to save a dime, let alone buy gold.