Over A Million Families Destroyed!

[Rajiv]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

No,
I wasn't thinking of you -- however, I have come across the "blame the victim" mentality at many places where the topic of unemployment, and unemployment benefits is discussed.

The general assumption being that, a well qualified, educated individual should have no trouble landing at the very least a menial job -- say flipping burgers at a fast food place, or as grunt labor at a friendly XXXXXXX-Mart. But it turns out that just as a person may be perceived as being under qualified for a job, a person may also be perceived as being overqualified as well. Employers very often will not offer lowly jobs to well educated people.

The entrepreneurial spirit is only in a small percentage of people, and it often takes access to resources or a great deal of chutzpah to make it down that path.

I personally have been without a pay check for over nine months, but have not yet applied for unemployment, because I along with other senior management have been trying to raise funds for our company, and dipping deep into our savings in order to do so. As it happens, if and when funding comes through, all our previous employees will be back at work -- all of them will return. However, I will have to make a decision soon whether or not to apply for unemployment. If I do, then as per the regulations, I will no longer be able to spend time raising those funds, as I will be expected to be looking for work full time, and be willing to take ANY work that I am offered.

I consider myself lucky that I have a sufficient size nest egg to have enabled me to do this. The reason for having to apply unemployment or not is determined once again by unemployment regulations, which prevent one from applying for unemployment AFTER a sufficient amount of time has passed since your last paycheck.

[cjppjc]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

No,
I wasn't thinking of you -- however, I have come across the "blame the victim" mentality at many places where the topic of unemployment, and unemployment benefits is discussed.

The general assumption being that, a well qualified, educated individual should have no trouble landing at the very least a menial job -- say flipping burgers at a fast food place, or as grunt labor at a friendly XXXXXXX-Mart. But it turns out that just as a person may be perceived as being under qualified for a job, a person may also be perceived as being overqualified as well. Employers very often will not offer lowly jobs to well educated people.

The entrepreneurial spirit is only in a small percentage of people, and it often takes access to resources or a great deal of chutzpah to make it down that path.

I personally have been without a pay check for over nine months, but have not yet applied for unemployment, because I along with other senior management have been trying to raise funds for our company, and dipping deep into our savings in order to do so. As it happens, if and when funding comes through, all our previous employees will be back at work -- all of them will return. However, I will have to make a decision soon whether or not to apply for unemployment. If I do, then as per the regulations, I will no longer be able to spend time raising those funds, as I will be expected to be looking for work full time, and be willing to take ANY work that I am offered.

I consider myself lucky that I have a sufficient size nest egg to have enabled me to do this. The reason for having to apply unemployment or not is determined once again by unemployment regulations, which prevent one from applying for unemployment AFTER a sufficient amount of time has passed since your last paycheck.

Thank you for your reply. I wish you luck raising the needed funds. As for me.....Off to work.

[DToM67]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

...Send every family (employed and unemployed) the same check. That would be much fairer.

Good intentions aside, this would just inflate away any benefit. We'd be worse off.

With unemployment running more than 30% for those at the lowest end of the income scale, I question the wisdom of simply cutting off the poorest and most desperate segment of society, particularly when some may turn to more violent means to get what they need to survive. What the unemployed need more than anything else is jobs. In addition, those jobs need to pay a living wage otherwise they will be right back on the dole for things like healthcare and food stamps (i.e. you and I wind up paying anyway for the "savings" of low wages for places like WalMart's with our tax dollars).

From a cost perspective, unemployment benefits are a relatively small expense (something like around $40B annually for the entire U.S. if I remember correctly). Of course, there is the little matter of the $25 trillion in bailouts and backstops to the Wall Street crowd so they can have another blowout year in bonuses (> $100 billion in 2009 thanks to your tax dollars), "Lord" Blankfein can continue doing God's work, and a disgraced Ken Lewis can retire with a paltry $73M payout.

The fact is that the wealth of our nation has gone to preserve the wealth of a few well connected elites who otherwise would likely be penniless and currently standing in the unemployment line with all the other schmucks who are out of a job. We have a welfare state alright every bit as insidious as the one created by the Johnson administration back in the 1960's. However, ours is turned upside down: "socialism for the rich and well connected."

Just keep in mind that most of those folks who are getting benefits would likely still be working had it not been for the greed and reckless disregard for the law of a few really bad apples.:rolleyes:

Well thought out & spoken.

If only Faux Nooz was as thoughtful, "fair & balanced".

[sishya]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

This is not good. Govt should extend unemployment
benefits until economy is on better footing, they can
cut some defense spending or foreign aid.

[LorenS]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

My inlaws are retired (70+ yrs old and 80+ yrs old) but need extra money. They are finding employment exceedingly hard to come by - even menial, minimum wage stuff. They're in Florida. It's not quite so bad here in Colorado. But even here there isn't "plenty" of work. Even low paying jobs are hard to get, especially if you're over 60.

This is not a regular recession.

[dropthatcash]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

From a cost perspective, unemployment benefits are a relatively small expense (something like around $40B annually for the entire U.S. if I remember correctly).


That's because your only counting the privileged few that receive the benefits. were we to pay these benefits equally to all the 15 million unemployed, it would cost 250 billion. I live in economic ground zero, metro Detroit. I have no problem making money albeit self-employed. I bristle at the though of giving more money to these lazy overpaid fellow Detroiters that bankrupted the manufacturing base of this nation with extorted union wage demands. Name an industry that hasn't been bankrupted by them; steel, airlines, autos, railroads, retail (Sears,Montgomery Wards, Kmart), Mining...

[karim0028]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

This begs several questions, 1) where does it say in the Constitution or anywhere else that you are entitled to a job and unemployment benefits .

Camtender, You are right, personal entitlement programs arent listed in the constitution.... But, while we are at it and following your sort of twisted line of reasoning, where in the constitution does it say that there should be corporate entitlement programs in the form of military industrial complex projects and never ending wars that bankrupt a nation and then state that there isn't enough money for personal "entitlement"???? Its like trying to be the second bank robber of the night... Aint no money left ;) First bankster (umm, i mean robber) got to it first...

We are fooling our selves in believing that this is a fair system...

I am seriously amazed at how people will continually stand up against their own gains... I consider myself a free thinker and a political independent (used to be dem, but voted for that retard Bush in 2K and Obama in 08) and now clearly see they are all the same...

I believe govt entitlement should be minimalist. But, i am continually amused by folks that talk that talk and then dont mention anything about the biggest thefts in the last 8 years, wars and bailouts... We doubled our national debt and were essentially robbed and what do we spend our time looking at; 40B in unemployment; thats what will get the middle class riled up; entitlement programs... Thats what we end up talking about; at least on the MSM... These "middle class" folks dont realize that they are about 1 paycheck away from begging for food and then being right there on the govt tit...

Its the biggest slight of hand i have ever seen, its like one big 3 card monty...

Look to the right, while i rape you from behind....

[karim0028]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

No,
I wasn't thinking of you -- however, I have come across the "blame the victim" mentality at many places where the topic of unemployment, and unemployment benefits is discussed.

The general assumption being that, a well qualified, educated individual should have no trouble landing at the very least a menial job -- say flipping burgers at a fast food place, or as grunt labor at a friendly XXXXXXX-Mart. But it turns out that just as a person may be perceived as being under qualified for a job, a person may also be perceived as being overqualified as well. Employers very often will not offer lowly jobs to well educated people.

The entrepreneurial spirit is only in a small percentage of people, and it often takes access to resources or a great deal of chutzpah to make it down that path.

I personally have been without a pay check for over nine months, but have not yet applied for unemployment, because I along with other senior management have been trying to raise funds for our company, and dipping deep into our savings in order to do so. As it happens, if and when funding comes through, all our previous employees will be back at work -- all of them will return. However, I will have to make a decision soon whether or not to apply for unemployment. If I do, then as per the regulations, I will no longer be able to spend time raising those funds, as I will be expected to be looking for work full time, and be willing to take ANY work that I am offered.

I consider myself lucky that I have a sufficient size nest egg to have enabled me to do this. The reason for having to apply unemployment or not is determined once again by unemployment regulations, which prevent one from applying for unemployment AFTER a sufficient amount of time has passed since your last paycheck.

I was in the same situation after the dotcom bust... Recent College Grad, interned (coop, 1 year long intern, going to school at night) at a major semi-conductor company and while an intern the entire team was laid off and told that they would have to train their replacement in India in order to get 1 month extra pay...

Pushed off graduation for as long as i could (as long as i didnt officially graduate, i could continue to intern) till finally my advisor said i had more than enough credits to graduate (i could have graduated when i was 18) and shoved me out the door into the "real" world in 03; it was like a desert, not a job in sight...

I worked as a gas station attendant as in the "thank you, come again" kind for over a year till i was able to get a call back and an interview...

That was rough mentally, especially after getting offers from Arthur Andersen (Which i also interned at, they deserved to go under... As an intern, a limo would come pick me up from the airport for a weekend event) and about all major consulting firms with top 5 figure salaries and a BMW as a signing bonus..... This experience has taught met that aside from all the "polite" wording, you must cover your own ass, bc no one will hel p you... Corporate loyalty (if i ever had any) went out the window once that layoff scenario happened... Welcome to the new reality. I am glad it happened to me early and not when i am in my 40/50's expecting to retire at the company i started with... It really opened my eyes.

I feel sorry for the 2009/10 RCG's... Aint nothing there...

I know alot of folks that never recovered from the dotcom bust and are still unemployed or had a major lifestyle shift (tried their hands at self employment/business and lost money)... Unfortunately, once you've been out for more than a year, its really hard to find anyone willing to hire you....

[aaron]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

The real reason these people are unemployed is . . . they themselves. They voted for the Politicians who enabled the Financial Elite who in turn crashed the system with their gambling.

Let these unemployed feel the pain.
Then, maybe they will wake up and figure out who was responsible . . . and that they have the power to change things by voting out the Political Enablers and voting in new politicians who will carry our real reforms . . . you know, represent the interests of The People

I agree. Things will not get better until people suffer. It sucks. It is painful. But, we need to be a nation of adults.

I did notice that the unemployment rate finally reflects what we have been told...

Do well in school, go to college, get a job. It seems that people who followed this advice, as well as other common advice: spend what you make, save, etc... These people are doing OK. In other words, if you listened to your mommy and daddy, you are probably in an acceptable place. If you fucked off in high school because you didn't need no stinkin' learnin' in the GM factory, well that does suck for you. Yes, many people are in this situation because of no fault of their own. But, you can always go back and find out where it IS their fault on some level.

Most non-psychopaths are probably inclined to extend unemployment benefits. It is humane. But when does it stop? I think this country will not improve/change until there is some real suffering. So, for purely selfish reasons, I say end the gravy train. I want a bit of civil disobedience. I want a march on Washington. I want people to realize that there are MILLIONS of citizens getting screwed.

"Daddy, I am hungry" is a very, very powerful motivator.

[flintlock]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

Camtender, You are right, personal entitlement programs arent listed in the constitution.... But, while we are at it and following your sort of twisted line of reasoning, where in the constitution does it say that there should be corporate entitlement programs in the form of military industrial complex projects and never ending wars that bankrupt a nation and then state that there isn't enough money for personal "entitlement"???? Its like trying to be the second bank robber of the night... Aint no money left ;) First bankster (umm, i mean robber) got to it first...

We are fooling our selves in believing that this is a fair system...

I am seriously amazed at how people will continually stand up against their own gains... I consider myself a free thinker and a political independent (used to be dem, but voted for that retard Bush in 2K and Obama in 08) and now clearly see they are all the same...

I believe govt entitlement should be minimalist. But, i am continually amused by folks that talk that talk and then dont mention anything about the biggest thefts in the last 8 years, wars and bailouts... We doubled our national debt and were essentially robbed and what do we spend our time looking at; 40B in unemployment; thats what will get the middle class riled up; entitlement programs... Thats what we end up talking about; at least on the MSM... These "middle class" folks dont realize that they are about 1 paycheck away from begging for food and then being right there on the govt tit...

Its the biggest slight of hand i have ever seen, its like one big 3 card monty...

Look to the right, while i rape you from behind....

Well said Karim.

[flintlock]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

Yes, but what will be the result of this suffering? Ideally a political revolution where all our leaders are thrown from office in the next elections. In reality, people will probably just turn on each other. Robberies, ID theft, fraud, all will climb. And they won't be stealing from the Rockefellers in their gated communities. They'll be stealing from me and you.

I'm still waiting for the backlash against illegal immigrants. While I'm firmly against illegal immigration, I feel for these people when frustrated Americans start blaming them for all this. I fear it will get ugly.

Americans have been so brainwashed not to rise up against their political and corporate masters. The press will give them plenty of reasons to tear themselves apart instead.

[cjppjc]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

Did the easy money that help create the Dotcom boom lead to false expectations?

Was the promised lifestyle illusory?

Didn't everybody benefit from the easy money and now is the payback?

[Glenn Black]

Re: Over A Million U.S. Families Destroyed!

Unemployment Benefits Denied!Over A Million Families Destroyed!

See also - Senate will seek yearlong extension of unemployment benefits on Monday



But it certainly looks like there will be a week or two's interruption in the processing of the unemployment checks -- depending on when the bills get through. Could be devastating when you are living unemployment check to unemployment check.

I share your concerns for the families. There was a time when I collected welfare myself so as to keep a roof over myself and my 2 young children. It was one of the most difficult periods of my life.

However, one of the things that this website is dedicated to is the criticizing of run away deficits. Keynesian economics says save for a rainy day so that citizens & governments can afford to see you through the hard times when there isn't anything else. That wasn't done, so there isn't anything to give now. So that doesn't meet the definition of Keynesian economics.

What you seem to be proposing is a fair coin toss, but it seems to me what you are really saying is: "Heads I win, Tales you lose". Can you have your cake and eat it too?

So if it's not Keynesian, than what is it? Or is it so screwed up, the only policy that fully describes this current situation (and the next 20 years) is:

Run for your lives! Every man for himself!

[FRED]

Re: Over A Million U.S. Families Destroyed!

I share your concerns for the families. There was a time when I collected welfare myself so as to keep a roof over myself and my 2 young children. It was one of the most difficult periods of my life.

However, one of the things that this website is dedicated to is the criticizing of run away deficits. Keynesian economics says save for a rainy day so that citizens & governments can afford to see you through the hard times when there isn't anything else. That wasn't done, so there isn't anything to give now. So that doesn't meet the definition of Keynesian economics.

What you seem to be proposing is a fair coin toss, but it seems to me what you are really saying is: "Heads I win, Tales you lose". Can you have your cake and eat it too?

So if it's not Keynesian, than what is it? Or is it so screwed up, the only policy that fully describes this current situation (and the next 20 years) is:

Run for your lives! Every man for himself!

[BillBoard]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

Would anyone answer this question for me - Does the payment of unemployment benefits keep prices artificially high?

What I am trying to find out is, if by paying unemployment benefits the government gives a subsidy to the banks?

Everyone I know has to either pay a mortgage or pay rent, and that means most of the unemployment check amount has to go to pay the mortgage or rent, the rest if any for food. If the unemployment checks stop, doesn't that force the cost of housing to collapse?