Over A Million Families Destroyed!

[jpatter666]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

Would anyone answer this question for me - Does the payment of unemployment benefits keep prices artificially high?

What I am trying to find out is, if by paying unemployment benefits the government gives a subsidy to the banks?

Everyone I know has to either pay a mortgage or pay rent, and that means most of the unemployment check amount has to go to pay the mortgage or rent, the rest if any for food. If the unemployment checks stop, doesn't that force the cost of housing to collapse?

IMO, no.

1 ) You are assuming that the banks own all the houses/apartments. Many are privately owned (might even be paid off!)
2 ) If you are at that level of income, only low-income housing is (likely) affected.
3 ) The amount given is unlikely to cover much if any mortgage amount. Most likely the individual involved is behind on payments or in some level of foreclosure.
4 ) The number of unemployed who would lose benefits is not (yet) at such a level as to materially affect prices -- might be wrong there I don't know the full numbers.

Note: I am only discussing the direct question, not the morality or possible social consequences.

[Wild Style]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

The real reason these people are unemployed is . . . they themselves. They voted for the Politicians who enabled the Financial Elite who in turn crashed the system with their gambling.

Let these unemployed feel the pain.
Then, maybe they will wake up and figure out who was responsible . . . and that they have the power to change things by voting out the Political Enablers and voting in new politicians who will carry our real reforms . . . you know, represent the interests of The People

I agree with you to some extent. There are a lot of people who are unemployed who didn't vote for the elites who have landed us where we are now. Many of them are guilty of not being educated on what is going on and others for just not caring. But along with those suffering I want to see those who seem to have no compassion for their fellow man to lose everything as well and every door they attempt to open I hope is locked to them. That is the only way people will learn compassion and to feel some regard for their fellow man. It is difficult to understand something unless you yourself have experienced it.

Rajiv,

Your points are well received by me but I think you are not understanding one thing. I would say 85% of American's suffer from Stockholm Syndrome, hence their aversion to helping victims. Instead they side with their enslavers. Sad, but true.

[Kadriana]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

IMO, no.

1 ) You are assuming that the banks own all the houses/apartments. Many are privately owned (might even be paid off!)
2 ) If you are at that level of income, only low-income housing is (likely) affected.
3 ) The amount given is unlikely to cover much if any mortgage amount. Most likely the individual involved is behind on payments or in some level of foreclosure.
4 ) The number of unemployed who would lose benefits is not (yet) at such a level as to materially affect prices -- might be wrong there I don't know the full numbers.

Note: I am only discussing the direct question, not the morality or possible social consequences.

A lot of the people I know that are unemployed have a spouse who is still working. The unemployment check is helping them keep afloat so they're still on time with their bills right now, but without it, they will fall behind.

[BillBoard]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

A lot of the people I know that are unemployed have a spouse who is still working. The unemployment check is helping them keep afloat so they're still on time with their bills right now, but without it, they will fall behind.

Falling behind would mean defaulting of their obligations, no?

Liquidation of assets, downsizing, lower quality of life?

I remember reading something along the lines of an asset consolidation or something, I will search and see if I can find the thread.

[tsetsefly]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

the government will always screw you over, always. But the people vote for these politicians so now they have to live with them. Lets not forget that the previous and current administration's response to the crisis is what will be keeping unemployment high for a long time...

[Camtender]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

We are fooling our selves in believing that this is a fair system...

I am seriously amazed at how people will continually stand up against their own gains... I consider myself a free thinker and a political independent (used to be dem, but voted for that retard Bush in 2K and Obama in 08) and now clearly see they are all the same...

Look to the right, while i rape you from behind....

I suspect the issue is about managing peoples' expectations of what is entitled to them because they are Americans.

Anyone who thinks life is fair is foolish to start with. While on the subject of fairness, what is fair?

A) One year of unemployment,
B) Five years of unemployment,
C) Unemployment until you find a job to make you whole again or
D) Until death.

Want to take a stab at it?

In addition, regardless of what the government does or does not do, you have to be accountable to your own actions. If you have the mentality of riding the social programs to milk the system for all its worth ("giving it to the man"), aren't you essentially doing what the government is doing - taking from future generations.

And finally, what is with this fascination/fetish about the bending over, taking in the backside, grab ankles - references that I keep reading? Do people think that digressing adds creditability to their arguments?

-Camtender

[raja]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

Yes, but what will be the result of this suffering? Ideally a political revolution where all our leaders are thrown from office in the next elections. In reality, people will probably just turn on each other. Robberies, ID theft, fraud, all will climb. And they won't be stealing from the Rockefellers in their gated communities. They'll be stealing from me and you.

Yes, that's true . . . but there's no reason people can't steal from their neighbor AND vote out the incumbents

The population is not homogeneous. I think that most people who become unemployed will not resort to crime . . . but rather they will be angry as hell and looking for someone to punish, i.e., the Enabler Politicians and the Financial Elite.

Americans have been so brainwashed not to rise up against their political and corporate masters. The press will give them plenty of reasons to tear themselves apart instead.

Notice how the tone has changed in the MSM over the last two years. At first you had the lone voices of doom, like Faber and Paul, but now many talking heads are pontificating about the threats of sovereign debt, dollar collapse, etc. Dylan Radigan MSNBC is a good example.

It's also up to the more economically informed in society, like us, to educate the less informed. Just yesterday I spoke to someone to whom I'd given a copy of Chris Martenson's Crash Course I & II (free download). . . they said they made copies and gave away 10 of them.

[karim0028]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

I suspect the issue is about managing peoples' expectations of what is entitled to them because they are Americans.

Anyone who thinks life is fair is foolish to start with. While on the subject of fairness, what is fair?

A) One year of unemployment,
B) Five years of unemployment,
C) Unemployment until you find a job to make you whole again or
D) Until death.

Want to take a stab at it?

In addition, regardless of what the government does or does not do, you have to be accountable to your own actions. If you have the mentality of riding the social programs to milk the system for all its worth ("giving it to the man"), aren't you essentially doing what the government is doing - taking from future generations.

And finally, what is with this fascination/fetish about the bending over, taking in the backside, grab ankles - references that I keep reading? Do people think that digressing adds creditability to their arguments?

-Camtender

First off, just a quick apology, if my original response felt like i was a little rough with my language or even against you, i didn't mean it that way..... But, i feel what is happening is the exact same as what i describe; don't see a need to make it pretty, bc its not.... Its financial rape.

Second as to your question about how long unemployment should last...

I will take a stab at it... How about making it last as long as the mean duration of unemployment? Not necessarily one year, 2 yrs, 5 yrs or whatever... The statistic is out there, why not use it?

My "idealistic" view is that govt should not aid any single group in favor of another group... BUT, if IT is going to do it anyway, then i dont mind that all the money goes back to the people who paid it... I would have no qualms that there be no "money leftover" for wars (aside from national self defense of course), instead of spending all our money on wars of aggression and bailing out rich folks like we did for the last 10 years and then saying that we dont have "money leftover" for the little guys... Not the system we have now....

In addition, regardless of what the government does or does not do, you have to be accountable to your own actions. If you have the mentality of riding the social programs to milk the system for all its worth ("giving it to the man"), aren't you essentially doing what the government is doing - taking from future generations.

aren't you essentially doing what the government is doing

Why is following the "rules" always reserved for the little guy? I keep seeing that mentality over and over again..... I just don't get.... Fix the system and then tell me to get my act together... Dont let me sit there watching everyone else get full and fat, while i starve and tell me that i should do the "right" thing... I am obviously speaking metaphorically here...


Hey, if the game is rigged, you either learn to play the game; or get steam rolled over... If i keep doing the "right" thing and keep getting smacked in the face over and over again, eventually i will learn that what i thought was "right" didn't benefit me, so i have no incentive to follow it any more... If i dont "get it" after that, then i'm a little thick and deserve what i get.... Hell, even mice and dogs learn that way...

[Camtender]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

I will take a stab at it... How about making it last as long as the mean duration of unemployment? Not necessarily one year, 2 yrs, 5 yrs or whatever... The statistic is out there, why not use it?

First, no problem, thanks for the reply. Second, it is hard for me to continue to see America spend money we simply don't have. So we print moeny and kick the can down the road until we have a currency problem. When that happens, we all might as well be unemployed.

Per EJ's latest..............................

It is a tough call, one I have no idea what would be fair.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

Notice how the tone has changed in the MSM over the last two years.

Are those the cry of revolutionaries arousing the citizenry, or scare tactics to drive us into submission?

From what I recall of the way they rammed the TARP legislation through, we're submitting, not revolting.

What I hear on the Main Stream Media does not remind me of the words of Jefferson or Patrick Henry.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

It is a tough call, one I have no idea what would be fair.

We cannot determine what would be fair based on past promises. Examining the specifics of any particular class of claimants will not guide us well. There has been too much fraud, too many lies, too much theft.

The ship is sinking and what's fair is to see that the women and children get first take on life boat seating, regardless of the class of ticket they hold.

In other words, speaking more directly rather than in metaphors, we have too much need, too many promises and too few resources. Almost everyone is going to get short changed (well, everyone except those doing God's work, such as those at Goldman Sachs :mad:.)

We have three primary goals now:

1. Clean up the corruption.
2. Share what we have equitably, so that as many as possible can make it.
3. Build the foundation for a more productive, free and honest civilization.

[cjppjc]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

But along with those suffering I want to see those who seem to have no compassion for their fellow man to lose everything as well and every door they attempt to open I hope is locked to them. That is the only way people will learn compassion and to feel some regard for their fellow man. It is difficult to understand something unless you yourself have experienced it.

Think that would do it?

[jpatter666]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

A lot of the people I know that are unemployed have a spouse who is still working. The unemployment check is helping them keep afloat so they're still on time with their bills right now, but without it, they will fall behind.

You are right, I did not include that.

[Camtender]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

But along with those suffering I want to see those who seem to have no compassion for their fellow man to lose everything as well and every door they attempt to open I hope is locked to them. That is the only way people will learn compassion and to feel some regard for their fellow man. It is difficult to understand something unless you yourself have experienced it.

Let me see if I can understand this............... have compassion, but if no compassion, have no compassion.

[Glenn Black]

Re: Over A Million Families Destroyed!

Would anyone answer this question for me - Does the payment of unemployment benefits keep prices artificially high?

What I am trying to find out is, if by paying unemployment benefits the government gives a subsidy to the banks?

Everyone I know has to either pay a mortgage or pay rent, and that means most of the unemployment check amount has to go to pay the mortgage or rent, the rest if any for food. If the unemployment checks stop, doesn't that force the cost of housing to collapse?

Due to the fractional reserve banking system, and assuming that people spend the money or put it in their bank accounts, it is the fastest way to re-float the banks. Steve Keen recently simulated it, and it was far more effective for gov. bailouts to go to taxpayers rather than giving the money directly to the banks, who will just sit on it, as it isn't money sitting in banks that causes money velocity (the holy grail of the Fed banking system), it is people asking for loans, which is lubricated by deposits going into a bank.