Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

[GRG55]

Re: Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

I was just telling an employee yesterday who was bitching about this to consider it " job security".

Yes Engineer types are fussy. I can tell immediately when I have an engineer on the phone requesting service. They generally know exactly what they want and want to discuss 10 different ways to screw in a light bulb.;)

Here's today's "light bulb" story...

...

• He specified North American and European made components [not components made in Asia by North American or European headquartered companies]. I am a trade advocate, but it is most often extremely difficult to distinguish between a well made Chinese building product and a poorly made Chinese building product - until you put it in service - and therefore I will not knowingly use any Chinese made materials or products in my project.

...

When I wired the Ag Centre a month ago I installed some high bay fluorescents using the new 54 watt T5 tubes. This morning two bulbs in one fixture didn't light up. So I set up the scaffold, dropped the fixture and set about troubleshooting it, figuring maybe one of the tubes [Philips] had failed prematurely. No such luck. Turned out to be the ballast.

The fixtures and the box they came in are marked "Made in USA". The ballasts...yep..."Made in China".

I sure hope you folks south of the border "re-industrialize" soon, because I am getting tired of paying good money for trans-Pacific garbage.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

Here's today's "light bulb" story...
When I wired the Ag Centre a month ago I installed some high bay fluorescents using the new 54 watt T5 tubes. This morning two bulbs in one fixture didn't light up. So I set up the scaffold, dropped the fixture and set about troubleshooting it, figuring maybe one of the tubes [Philips] had failed prematurely. No such luck. Turned out to be the ballast.

The fixtures and the box they came in are marked "Made in USA". The ballasts...yep..."Made in China".

I sure hope you folks south of the border "re-industrialize" soon, because I am getting tired of paying good money for trans-Pacific garbage.

Icecap 660 ballast, $169 at any mail order aquarium supply store. 3 yr warranty.


I run a 125 gallon saltwater tank with T-5 reef lights (4 lamps, each 36 inch, 39/60watts). I'm on my second Icecap 660. The first one ran all day every day for 9 years. They start quickly; accept many combination of lamp lengths. qty, watts up to 16 feet of lamps totaling 464 watts; dramatically extends lamp life.

You're gonna like your high output T-5's if you get them reliable and well started.

[GRG55]

Re: Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

Icecap 660 ballast, $169 at any mail order aquarium supply store.


I run a 125 gallon saltwater tank with T-5 reef lights. I'm on my second Icecap 660. The first one only ran all day every day for 9 years. They start quickly; accept many combination of lamp lengths. qty, watts up to 12 feet of lamps; dramatically extends lamp life

You're gonna like your T-5's if you get them reliable and well started

Thanks for the info. I'll certainly give it a try.

The T5s throw a lot of light for a small tube. I put them on the 12 ft high ceilings in my main shop area and there's no shortage of illumination. In fact at first I didn't notice that two tubes were out.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

Thanks for the info. I'll certainly give it a try.

The T5s throw a lot of light for a small tube. I put them on the 12 ft high ceilings in my main shop area and there's no shortage of illumination. In fact at first I didn't notice that two tubes were out.

If your fixtures are twelve feet high, you've got another reason to buy top-of-the-line electronic ballast; you don't want to be up there changing them more often.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

I sure hope you folks south of the border "re-industrialize" soon, because I am getting tired of paying good money for trans-Pacific garbage.

First things first. We've got to finish destroying the greatest economy in human history first. It's hard work killing such a monster. Patience, please.

[santafe2]

Re: Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

I look at this somewhat differently.

It seems to me that there are two opposing forces at work. First: employees are pushing to be paid more; they say they feel they are worth more than they're being paid; unions represent them and push for higher wages; government steps in and imposes a minimum wage, they support unions, and adds laws that make it difficult to fire people and that mandate various benefits, working conditions, etc.

The other force is employers: they are required through the laws of economics to make a profit; if they don't, all of the people who work for them will lose their jobs; so, they strive to be more efficient; they replace low-skilled jobs with automation; they use wage-arbitrage to offshore jobs when they can; they eliminate jobs that no longer have an economic benefit.

The problem here is that employees (and their representatives, in the form of unions and government) fail to consider both cause and effect. Yes, they can force an employer to pay them more in the short term. But a reasonable employer will respond and compensate for those cost increases, and part of that process inevitably means fewer jobs--in particular, fewer low-skilled jobs.

In the US, lack of enforcement against illegal immigration just compounds the problem.

One small step forward would be to repeal the minimum wage. The problem today isn't so much that jobs don't exist; as Grape said, it's that wages are too high. Eliminate the pay floor, and I'm sure lots of jobs would appear.

Although not all my Northern neighbors agree with me, humanity is in the long, slow process of being parsed into segments based on talent or lack thereof. It's going to get ugly for humans over this century. I offer the above post as an example. "...repeal the minimum wage." I take this as a challenge to turn US cities like LA into mega-slums. As the writer observes, "...lots of jobs would appear." Most of these will be worse than slavery but there will certainly be lots of jobs.

I see no way 6.7B humans come out of this situation in harmony. Skills will not be a 'get out of jail free' card. As humanity increases in size, it will parse into ever more opposing groups. Most people will not make the cut...unless they live in Canada.

[Sharky]

Re: Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

I offer the above post as an example. "...repeal the minimum wage." I take this as a challenge to turn US cities like LA into mega-slums. As the writer observes, "...lots of jobs would appear." Most of these will be worse than slavery but there will certainly be lots of jobs.

The alternative isn't minimum wage jobs vs. lower-wage jobs. It's lower-wage jobs vs. no jobs. It's not poverty vs. above-poverty; it's poverty vs. death.

Isn't it better to have a low-wage job than to starve? Or perhaps crime is the preferred option?

Is it slavery when you have to work for a low wage to feed yourself, or when part of your wages are taken to pay for someone else's food?

Oh, and FWIW, LA is already a mega-slum. Welfare and other "Great Society" programs made sure of that. The question is: will they turn into bigger death traps than they already are when government "aid" collapses, or will there be an alternative?

[santafe2]

Re: Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

The alternative isn't minimum wage jobs vs. lower-wage jobs. It's lower-wage jobs vs. no jobs. It's not poverty vs. above-poverty; it's poverty vs. death.

Isn't it better to have a low-wage job than to starve? Or perhaps crime is the preferred option?

Is it slavery when you have to work for a low wage to feed yourself, or when part of your wages are taken to pay for someone else's food?

Oh, and FWIW, LA is already a mega-slum. Welfare and other "Great Society" programs made sure of that. The question is: will they turn into bigger death traps than they already are when government "aid" collapses, or will there be an alternative?

Having spent most of my life in LA prior to exiting in the mid 90s, it's not a place I want to defend but it's hardly a slum. Detroit, maybe.

As for your libertarian, no life boats, every person for themselves approach, I'll take it seriously when you quit using our socialist roads, police, libraries, internet, etc.

[Sharky]

Re: Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

Having spent most of my life in LA prior to exiting in the mid 90s, it's not a place I want to defend but it's hardly a slum. Detroit, maybe.

I lived in LA too; it's a big place. You don't think South Central is a slum? Watts? Jefferson Park? Inglewood? Skid row? Even downtown. Many other areas aren't much better.

As for your libertarian, no life boats, every person for themselves approach, I'll take it seriously when you quit using our socialist roads, police, libraries, internet, etc.

I moved away from the US, so I no longer use any public facilities there, even though I still pay US income taxes.

While I was there: roads are paid for by use taxes from fuel.

I've never called the police or 911--although I've certainly paid plenty in property and income taxes. Many years ago, I used to work for the police, though; what a mistake that was!

The last house I built was made from fireproof materials, so it could never burn--and so the fire dept would never be needed.

I don't have a library card, and have never borrowed a book or used any library, even for references.

I pay plenty for my Internet service (at least NZ$300/mo).

I sent my kids to private schools from nursery school on.

In NZ, where public health is an option, I always choose the private option when it's possible to do so, even though I pay plenty of taxes here.

Take me seriously now? Didn't think so. Doesn't really matter, though -- *reality* will force the situation; it's simply not sustainable in the long term the way it is now.

FWIW, I'm not a libertarian. I do believe in the validity and usefulness of government; just not in its current form (a proper government should protect individual rights, not violate them). Regarding no life boats and every person for themselves: I'm not against charity; I'm against stealing from Peter to pay Paul. It violates individual rights, and has no place in a proper, moral government.

It's always odd to me that socialists prefer death to life. Your post seems to be a concrete example of it, though. I'm proposing a way to keep poor people from starving, and you're saying the rest of us need to keep giving them our stuff no matter what, even though what's being done doesn't work at all--in which case both groups will eventually end up in the same boat.

[flintlock]

Re: Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

Here's today's "light bulb" story...
When I wired the Ag Centre a month ago I installed some high bay fluorescents using the new 54 watt T5 tubes. This morning two bulbs in one fixture didn't light up. So I set up the scaffold, dropped the fixture and set about troubleshooting it, figuring maybe one of the tubes [Philips] had failed prematurely. No such luck. Turned out to be the ballast.

The fixtures and the box they came in are marked "Made in USA". The ballasts...yep..."Made in China".

I sure hope you folks south of the border "re-industrialize" soon, because I am getting tired of paying good money for trans-Pacific garbage.

I spend one or two days a month going back on defective parts or fixtures made in China. It's really becoming a problem for me. I actually now buy extra fixtures to bring with me because I know there is about a 40% chance at least one will not work right out of the box. The metal on these things you could bend with a rubber spoon it's so weak.

It's become such a problem that I require the homeowner to purchase things like those motion sensor lights that fail often. I simply could not afford to warrant that crap anymore, even with a markup. There are better ones available, but nobody wants to spend the dough ($150) when they see the $25 special at Home Depot. I blame companies like Home Depot to some degree. They don't offer higher quality choices, and their dominance of the market means they put out of business those who won't lower their standards in order to compete. Of course I guess they are just giving the people what they want.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

There are better [motion sensor lights] available

What would you recommend? I'm getting tired of trying different motion sensor lights that crap out in a few months (if they work that long.)

[santafe2]

Re: Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

It's always odd to me that socialists prefer death to life. Your post seems to be a concrete example of it, though. I'm proposing a way to keep poor people from starving, and you're saying the rest of us need to keep giving them our stuff no matter what, even though what's being done doesn't work at all--in which case both groups will eventually end up in the same boat.

It's always odd to me that fascists choose to create a false dichotomy as they drive their boot heal into humanity. Your ideas are one step away from advocating death camps as an economic solution.

It is your post that underlines my argument to GRG. Humanity has begun the Long Walk. The 21st Century will not be a rebirth of reason, it will be a period of troubled transition as we once again attempt to purge fascism from our collective 20th Century culture.

Your attitude is, unfortunately, not uncommon. The "poor" should be grateful to not starve to death. I find this idea unforgivably sick.

[touchring]

Re: Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

I spend one or two days a month going back on defective parts or fixtures made in China. It's really becoming a problem for me. I actually now buy extra fixtures to bring with me because I know there is about a 40% chance at least one will not work right out of the box. The metal on these things you could bend with a rubber spoon it's so weak.

Steel don't bend so easily, some of them might be lead alloy or cadmium, which is cheaper than steel and easier to make. But they are toxic and carcinogenic.

[Sharky]

Re: Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

It's always odd to me that fascists choose to create a false dichotomy as they drive their boot heal into humanity. Your ideas are one step away from advocating death camps as an economic solution.

So giving people the opportunity to voluntarily work in low-paying jobs instead of sucking at the government teat is one step away from death camps? Strange universe you live in.

Another point: much of the world works for less than US minimum wage, and survives just fine. What makes Americans so special that they can avoid economic reality? And why would it be considered so horrific for the US to act like other countries do when it comes to wages?

It is your post that underlines my argument to GRG. Humanity has begun the Long Walk. The 21st Century will not be a rebirth of reason, it will be a period of troubled transition as we once again attempt to purge fascism from our collective 20th Century culture.

As far as I can tell, fascism is on the upswing in the US. If it's going to be purged, there's still a long, long way to go.

However, voluntary jobs, at any wage, are not a symptom of fascism. Fascism is when you don't have a choice; when you're forced to either accept government aid or to provide it. It's the opposite of freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Your attitude is, unfortunately, not uncommon. The "poor" should be grateful to not starve to death. I find this idea unforgivably sick.

It seems to me that what you're advocating is in fact the death camp solution: keep them under the government's thumb with food stamps and welfare -- denying them any real self-esteem and ignoring the reality of the fact that those benefits can't last forever, until it's too late to do anything to fix it. Talk about sick.

What would you have those people do when government aid evaporates? When the fascist / socialist machines are simply no longer able to provide for their needs? Would you send someone with a gun to rob me, to provide for them? What happens when there's no one left to rob?

[flintlock]

Re: Jobless Rate: The Truth Bubble?

Yes, should have said "metal". It's brittle as heck.

Cow, I really couldn't say. My usual supply house claims they have a reliable version for about $150, but like I said, no one will take me up on the offer.
I'd put the failure rate on those things these days at about 33%, possibly higher. That's just to make it one year. Past about 3 years consider yourself lucky.

I bought three in a row for my own home before I got one that worked even one night. So you can imagine how thrilled I am when people ask me to install four or five of those suckers on their home. Guaranteed return trip. If you have integrity and honor your warranty like I do then you have to price the job at about double what it should be just to get out of the warranty period. So my solution was to quit providing them and charge if I have to go back.

I have one long term customer with 9 of these on his home. He's been paying me for years to come and swap them out. I've probably put up 25 motion floodlights on his home over the years.

The failure rate recently has skyrocketed for some reason. I'd gladly pay more for a better product. I think most people would also. But the Chinese seem to be obsessed with cutting costs. I see a lot of items they make where they've cut things that might possibly save one cent per item. Just ridiculous stuff. Like making light fixture bases too small to cover the box. What would 1/2" more of that fake steel cost vs 100,000 returned products?