Health Insurance and Death Panels

[MulaMan]

Solid middle class family, with health insurance paid in full, yet still thier Health Insurance company "Death Panel" OVERRULES DOCTORS on what treatment(s) should or should not be given.

Family now bankrupt or another American kid would die due to what Republicans call "free market" health inusuarnce.

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...apy_needs.html

Some guy named Timothy E. Nolan is the CEO of HealthAmerica, a big Republican supporter, and so head of the "Death Panels" - yet another anti-American scumbag.

[flintlock]

Re: Health Insurance and Death Panels

I have to agree with your argument that Insurance companies constitute "death panels" just as much as any proposed government panel would. If not death panels then certainly "quality of life" panels. I no more want some corporate giant with a profit motive making that decision than I do the government. Surely there is a better way.
Talking to my doctor today, he said he thought the whole system was basically dysfunctional now.

I require a drug for neuropathic pain that is expensive and I may have to take every day for the rest of my life. My insurance rejected it saying the drug is not approved for my specific condition. Well my condition is unique and somewhat rare. Of course its not approved for it. But it helps. Is it my fault I have a condition so rare they don't bother doing efficacy studies for this drug on it? Nuts. So I'll have to go to a less effective drug that requires more testing and they'll end up spending a lot more . Physicians are no longer delivering health care. Insurance companies are. They control the money, they call the shots. And sometimes the patients get caught in the crossfire between the two.

My wife said a 40 year old teacher at her school needs a hip replacement. Turned down flat. Like anyone would want to have a hip replacement if they didn't absolutely need it? Not old enough I guess.

Rant over.

[shiny!]

Re: Health Insurance and Death Panels

I'm sorry to hear about your pain, flintlock. Do you know if it's possible to buy your preferred drug for less money from a Canadian or European pharmacy? You've probably already looked into it but I just thought I'd suggest it if you haven't. I wish you well.

[Master Shake]

Re: Health Insurance and Death Panels

Solid middle class family, with health insurance paid in full, yet still thier Health Insurance company "Death Panel" OVERRULES DOCTORS on what treatment(s) should or should not be given.

Family now bankrupt or another American kid would die due to what Republicans call "free market" health inusuarnce.

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...apy_needs.html

Some guy named Timothy E. Nolan is the CEO of HealthAmerica, a big Republican supporter, and so head of the "Death Panels" - yet another anti-American scumbag.

And under government run healthcare, the kid would still be denied treatment.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Health Insurance and Death Panels

Physicians are no longer delivering health care. Insurance companies are. They control the money, they call the shots.

First, sincere condolences and best wishes.

Second, you call out a central point in this debate.
I see it as part of the widespread breakdown of the rule of law in the US.

This is, by any reasonable measure, practicing medicine without a license, yet is never punished.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Health Insurance and Death Panels

1.) Everyone dies, death is programmed into every living-thing, and into every cell in your body. So prolonging life is silly, stupid, unreasonable, selfish, cruel, and maybe a few more adverbs that might be deemed obscene.

2.) Death panels have to be in every healthcare system, whether public or whether private. No person should have the right to exhaust the resources of their children, their government, their hospital, nor their insurers.

3.) When death is postponed, at a certain point, the quality of life of the patient diminishes to zero. No-one should have to be crucified, with entubulation, needles, life-supports, and pain.

4.) Beyond death, there is re-cycling. We all get re-cycled into other living-things on this planet, so life never really ends. In the end, all we leave of our so-called "soul" is our memory and our physical possessions that we bequeath to others upon our death.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Health Insurance and Death Panels

1.) So prolonging life is silly, stupid, unreasonable, selfish, cruel, and maybe a few more adverbs that might be deemed obscene.

Perhaps you exagerate by generalizing. People died from tooh infections in the past, but we all think fillings are reasonable today. There are degrees of everything. Cerainly you don't mean to imply that all physicians should just quit and become farmers.

[HisHighnessDog]

Re: Health Insurance and Death Panels

Thanks for clearing that up, Spock. Put down your Ayn Rand reading list; you've learned "well" or at least learned what you've fed yourself. Now pick up a pen and write Sarah "Quittin' Idiot" Palin and let her know about your profound insight.

1.) Everyone dies, death is programmed into every living-thing, and into every cell in your body. So prolonging life is silly, stupid, unreasonable, selfish, cruel, and maybe a few more adverbs that might be deemed obscene.

2.) Death panels have to be in every healthcare system, whether public or whether private. No person should have the right to exhaust the resources of their children, their government, their hospital, nor their insurers.

3.) When death is postponed, at a certain point, the quality of life of the patient diminishes to zero. No-one should have to be crucified, with entubulation, needles, life-supports, and pain.

4.) Beyond death, there is re-cycling. We all get re-cycled into other living-things on this planet, so life never really ends. In the end, all we leave of our so-called "soul" is our memory and our physical possessions that we bequeath to others upon our death.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Health Insurance and Death Panels

Yes, I was thinking of Sarah Palin and the right-to-lifers, the ones she speaks to in code-words in her speeches, and the ones who adore her in the Republican red states, especially in the South.

Some of the recent performances of the right-to-lifers in America: the protests against so-called "death panels" and against the Obama healthcare reform bill; also the recent murder of the abortion doctor in Witchita, Kansas (on the steps of his own church) with the shooter's supporters coming to visit him in prison (as a martyr) and currently spreading his threat of violence against abortion doctors to women's clinics in nearby Nebraska.

[tombat1913]

Re: Health Insurance and Death Panels

Yes, maybe what republicans call a "free market", but most republicans don't have a clue what "free market" means. This is not a free market problem, it is a government intervention problem. Laws requiring company HMOs and PPOs are driving up costs and empowering insurance companies. We have a tendency to say that "Insurance companies are the problem" or "pharmaceutical companies are the problem" but lets get to the root of the problem, government subsidies and regulations established as a result of government corruption empower these industries. The revolving door between the FDA and Big Pharm is the problem. Stop blaming the free market because it doesn't exist here. Our out of control, over sized government is the problem. If these legislators weren't given all of this unconstitutional power over our lives the lobbyists wouldn't be coming around to manipulate that power.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: Health Insurance and Death Panels

Yes, maybe what republicans call a "free market", but most republicans don't have a clue what "free market" means. This is not a free market problem, it is a government intervention problem. Laws requiring company HMOs and PPOs are driving up costs and empowering insurance companies. We have a tendency to say that "Insurance companies are the problem" or "pharmaceutical companies are the problem" but lets get to the root of the problem, government subsidies and regulations established as a result of government corruption empower these industries. The revolving door between the FDA and Big Pharm is the problem. Stop blaming the free market because it doesn't exist here. Our out of control, over sized government is the problem. If these legislators weren't given all of this unconstitutional power over our lives the lobbyists wouldn't be coming around to manipulate that power.

I've done my best to seriously examine this problem in depth over a long time and I beg to differ.
The insurance companies are the problem.

[charliebrown]

Re: Health Insurance and Death Panels

A family member of mine just had magnetic resonance spectroscopy performed, the doctor wanted to measure the presence of a certain chemical in his body, the scanner does this. Insurance denied the claim. because MRS is "experitmental". I don't understand, the machine measures the chemical, the doctor wants to know if the chemical is present, what's experimental about it?

I have published papers showing that the prescence of this chemical is an indicator of an underlying condition. I am appealing. we will see how that goes. In the mean time I have thousands of dollars of uncovered medical bills. Neither the ordering physician or the provider informed me that this exam might be termed exprimental.

There are some things that could easily fix a lot of these problems.
1) Doctor's and Providers know the cpt codes. Have instant verification of coverage, could be done over the web.
2) When an insurance company says it's covered. this is a legally binding agreement. They can't weasel out. (this has happened to me before too).
3) If a customer pre-pays for a procedure, they get a special rate. LIke the ppo rate. Therefore they do not have to go through insurance to get good prices. If you have no group rate, and you need medical treatment,
you're in real trouble.

I'm not in love with the insurance companines, but a gvt replacement is no panacea either. I just got an AUR from the IRS. complete incompetance.
I actually owed no additional taxes. There is no way to argue your case on the phone. A five minute phone call would have fixed it. It took three mail exchanges, and 4 months to fix it. What a waste of time. Fortunately I was not waiting for an organ transplant.

Part of the problem with insurance companies is that because the policies are offered through your employer, you don't really have a choice of carrier. My company changed carriers a few years ago, but before that
the previous company was very incompetant. I had to call on approximately half o my claims because the were not filed correctly.
Had I had a choice of carriers I would have switch a long time ago.

I don't know how portability, open enrollment, pre-existing conditions issues get solved once insurance is no longer supplied by an employer.

[den111]

Re: Health Insurance and Death Panels

Solid middle class family, with health insurance paid in full, yet still thier Health Insurance company "Death Panel" OVERRULES DOCTORS on what treatment(s) should or should not be given.

Family now bankrupt or another American kid would die due to what Republicans call "free market" health inusuarnce.

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...apy_needs.html

Some guy named Timothy E. Nolan is the CEO of HealthAmerica, a big Republican supporter, and so head of the "Death Panels" - yet another anti-American scumbag.

It's time we accepted death as a normal part of life. Work in healthcare awhile and you won't be so ignorant as to call them 'death panels' anymore. Surely you accept 'God's plan/will/insert your own holy roller concept here'.

[flintlock]

Re: Health Insurance and Death Panels

I think this brings up the question of just how much more advancement in medicine can we afford to have. It's great to come up with this stuff, but if no one can afford it what good is it? Does the research waste valuable resources that could be put to use elsewhere? Does coming up with a low cost cure for a common illness rank as high in importance as a very expensive treatment for a less common illness? I'd rate that low cost cure as very successful. But in our world driven by money, the low cost cure is just as likely to be shunted aside as not "worth" pursuing by drug companies or other medical related businesses. The profit motive has made the actual goal of curing people a secondary concern in some cases.

I can understand why insurers have to limit some treatments. Just because they can transplant a face, does that mean all people are entitled to the procedure when disfigured? Or to receive bionic legs after amputation. Health care is rationed. It has to be. It's a complex issue. Capitalism has led to some great advancements in medicine, if fueled purely by the desire for profit. Yet on the other hand, it can also be completely inept at times in delivering good care to people. Some things just don't fit well in the pure capitalist model. The human element is hard to quantify.

I think a good start would be to take companies out of the business of providing health insurance for employees. Let insurance companies compete for business with the entire population, on a nationwide basis, with apple to apple criteria for health plans. Costs and plans should be simple and up front. No hidden weasel exclusions allowed. I can't see any reason why more than 2 or 3 different plans should be offered. Simplify things and millions can be saved just by the reduction of support staff required. Eliminate pre-existing conditions and form a pool for hard cases, much like high risk auto insurance has. Dole them out to Insurance companies so no one takes on all the risk. Mandate open pricing on all drugs, physician fees, and medical treatments.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Health Insurance and Death Panels

flintlock wrote:

Health care is rationed. It has to be

.I'd prefer they ration it the same way they ration urban transportation. If you can afford the chauffeur and limo or the BMW or Ferrari and parking fees, then great, have a blast and go for it. For the rest of us, basic subway, light rail and buses provide modest subsidized transportation. Subsidized roads, rail, air and waterway infrastructure provide a long term foundation.

If our medical, health, and pharmaceutical infrastructure, taxes, laws and insurance were such that we saw competitive, private pay hospitals competitive with what Thailandnotes reports from Thailand popping up here in the U.S., that would be a good sign. We're a long way from that, I'm afraid.