Will this become a national issue?

[den111]

Re: Will this become a national issue?

Front and center in the Washington Post...

Human microchips seen by some in Virginia House as device of antichrist

By Fredrick Kunkle and Rosalind S. Helderman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 10, 2010; B01

RICHMOND, FEB. 9 -- The House of Delegates is scheduled to vote Wednesday on a bill that would protect Virginians from attempts by employers or insurance companies to implant microchips in their bodies against their will.

It might also save humanity from the antichrist, some supporters think.

Del. Mark L. Cole (R-Fredericksburg), the bill's sponsor, said that privacy issues are the chief concern behind his attempt to criminalize the involuntary implantation of microchips. But he also said he shared concerns that the devices could someday be used as the "mark of the beast" described in the Book of Revelation.

"My understanding -- I'm not a theologian -- but there's a prophecy in the Bible that says you'll have to receive a mark, or you can neither buy nor sell things in end times," Cole said. "Some people think these computer chips might be that mark."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...903796_pf.html

DON"T FEED THE TROLLS!!!.

Once they sink their teeth into their idiotic holy roller bible crap it's all downhill for iTulip.

They are sick like a virus. Don't feed them these threads. They have ruined to many good web sites.

[raja]

Re: Will this become a national issue?

DON"T FEED THE TROLLS!!!.

Once they sink their teeth into their idiotic holy roller bible crap it's all downhill for iTulip.

They are sick like a virus. Don't feed them these threads. They have ruined to many good web sites.

One thing has always puzzled me about religion . . . .

When I was in college, some 40 years ago, I took a course in world religions. In it, I learned about many of the various religions that have sprung up on the planet. All of them had their main character or holy personages -- Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, Zoroaster, etc. -- and each religion revered this character as the "true" representative of God. With my young mind, I wondered, "They can't all be right, so most must be wrong." I also thought, "If so many people are wrong about their fervently held beliefs, what does that say about belief?"

Throughout my life, I have talked to many people who are 100% sure their brand of religion is the correct one and that all who do not share their belief are misguided. It amazes me that people can have such certainty, yet are able to discount so readily the certainty of others. I remain perplexed by this . . . .

[cjppjc]

Re: Will this become a national issue?

One thing has always puzzled me about religion . . . .

When I was in college, some 40 years ago, I took a course in world religions. In it, I learned about many of the various religions that have sprung up on the planet. All of them had their main character or holy personages -- Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, Zoroaster, etc. -- and each religion revered this character as the "true" representative of God. With my young mind, I wondered, "They can't all be right, so most must be wrong." I also thought, "If so many people are wrong about their fervently held beliefs, what does that say about belief?"

Throughout my life, I have talked to many people who are 100% sure their brand of religion is the correct one and that all who do not share their belief are misguided. It amazes me that people can have such certainty, yet are able to discount so readily the certainty of others. I remain perplexed by this . . . .

It's better not to think about that too much.

[centsless]

Re: Will this become a national issue?

For an annual fee we would come and get your pets after the rapture and raise them in a very luxurious open area. We were thinking of calling it, Rapture Park.

"A man will walk into Hell with both eyes open, but even the Devil can't fool a dog." ~~Earl Hamner, Twilight Zone, The Hunt episode

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Will this become a national issue?

DON"T FEED THE TROLLS!!!.

Once they sink their teeth into their idiotic holy roller bible crap it's all downhill for iTulip.

They are sick like a virus. Don't feed them these threads. They have ruined to many good web sites.

this stuff is utterly ridiculous and embarassing for the state of virginia
trolls are easy to get rid of or battle, erect another bridge...

Meanwhile From the Sunday Times Magazine….

about textbooks in Texas


“BROWN BEAR, BROWN BEAR, What Do You See?” It’s not an especially subversive-sounding title, but the author of this 1967 children’s picture book, Bill Martin Jr., lost his place in the Texas social-studies guidelines at last month’s board meeting due to what was thought to be un-American activity — to be precise, “very strong critiques of capitalism and the American system.” Martin, the creator of 300 children’s books, was removed from the list of cultural figures approved for study by third graders in the blizzard of amendments offered by board members…

What is wrong with the Texas process, according to many observers, is illustrated by the fate of Bill Martin Jr. The board has the power to accept, reject or rewrite the TEKS, and over the past few years, in language arts, science and now social studies, the members have done all of the above. Yet few of these elected overseers are trained in the fields they are reviewing. “In general, the board members don’t know anything at all about content,” Tom Barber, the textbook executive, says. Kathy Miller, the watchdog, who has been monitoring the board for 15 years, says, referring to Don McLeroy and another board member: “It is the most crazy-making thing to sit there and watch a dentist and an insurance salesman rewrite curriculum standards in science and history. Last year, Don McLeroy believed he was smarter than the National Academy of Sciences, and he now believes he’s smarter than professors of American history.” In this case, one board member sent an e-mail message with a reference to “Ethical Marxism,” by Bill Martin, to another board member, who suggested that anyone who wrote a book with such a title did not belong in the TEKS. As it turned out, Bill Martin and Bill Martin Jr. are two different people. But by that time, the author of “Brown Bear, Brown Bear” was out. “That’s a perfect example of these people’s lack of knowledge,” Miller says.

ha, ha, ha,
ha, ha, ha,
ha, ha, ha,

[we_are_toast]

Re: Will this become a national issue?

"A man will walk into Hell with both eyes open, but even the Devil can't fool a dog." ~~Earl Hamner, Twilight Zone, The Hunt episode

Your posting is very timely. Our local PBS channel has just started playing all the old classic Twilight Zone episodes, I'll be looking for this one.

[cindykimlisa]

Re: Will this become a national issue?

One thing has always puzzled me about religion . . . .

When I was in college, some 40 years ago, I took a course in world religions. In it, I learned about many of the various religions that have sprung up on the planet. All of them had their main character or holy personages -- Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, Zoroaster, etc. -- and each religion revered this character as the "true" representative of God. With my young mind, I wondered, "They can't all be right, so most must be wrong." I also thought, "If so many people are wrong about their fervently held beliefs, what does that say about belief?"

Throughout my life, I have talked to many people who are 100% sure their brand of religion is the correct one and that all who do not share their belief are misguided. It amazes me that people can have such certainty, yet are able to discount so readily the certainty of others. I remain perplexed by this . . . .

Ahh I have a response for you.

"Faith seeking understanding."

I believed what I believe with faith -- seeking understanding. In time with your faith the Divine will clarify and add to your understanding based on your faith. Mine is Christianity. One starts with faith --not with an understanding of everything.

Another non-religious example. When I started reading itulip I began with faith seeking understanding. What I have found myself (rather than herd mentality) is an understanding to not have much faith in what is said here. Nevertheless there is truth here but not real truth for me.

That being said there are others who believe they have found the Gospel of EJ here. They worship his every word. Sorry I do not. Nevertheless, there is a lot of worthwhile information that can sometimes help with the big picture of the secular world.

How about some different thinking in a thread

What would anybody do here when SHTF to help their neighbor? We all got guns, ammo, gold, silver and food for ourselves. Maybe we might be able to help others now and then with some of those things. Thats why many Christians give much of their wealth to Missions, We actually help people have some food in America for Thanksgiving. We are ready at a moments notice to take feeding units to disaster areas and feed thousands of people each day. We go throughout the world and help third world countries learn how to improve agriculture and improve wells. We collect school supplies for children who have none. We help people with a meal and gas who show up at the door. We counsel people who have been cast out by society and the government agencies. We have hospitals which give away millions of free healthcare each year.

Those are some Christian solutions to some of the issues.

Peace

Cindy

[raja]

Re: Will this become a national issue?

Ahh I have a response for you.

"Faith seeking understanding."

I believed what I believe with faith -- seeking understanding. In time with your faith the Divine will clarify and add to your understanding based on your faith. Mine is Christianity. One starts with faith --not with an understanding of everything.

Another non-religious example. When I started reading itulip I began with faith seeking understanding. What I have found myself (rather than herd mentality) is an understanding to not have much faith in what is said here. Nevertheless there is truth here but not real truth for me.

Although I appreciate your effort, I did not find your response plausible . . . .

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that it's necessary to have faith first, then understanding will come.
But how can I have faith, when I know that all the religions in the world have mutually contradictory versions of reality. In the best case scenario, only one can be correct. If only one is correct, that means that the majority of the religious people in the world are wrong, despite their fervently held belief and faith. So, what is faith worth?

I did not join iTulip because of faith. I joined because I understood and agreed with EJ's analytical method and general approach, so I considered it highly probably that he was mostly right. With most people's religious faith, I doubt that it's a question of probability . . . and that level of certainty that I find disquieting.

[ggirod]

Re: Will this become a national issue?

I would suggest the DVD series, Joseph Campbell and The Power of Myth with Bill Moyers. it is a real eye-opener to the reasons behind western and eastern cultures, the commonalities among religions, and the deep links that tie all of mankind together. If you are a fervent believer in some religion, the series could maybe offer some insights. If you are a religious skeptic, the series highlights the baby that should not be thrown out with the bathwater. The first three episodes of the six-episode series are on Youtube but the last three are also very meaty. I think it is not to be missed.

If you don't want to go into depth, Karen Armstrong has a short Ted speech that is another eye-opener.

[loweyecue]

Re: Will this become a national issue?

Somewhere I recently read this line:

Blind faith is a win-win situation for the weak minded.

The line stuck with me, but I proceeded to question why the not so weak minded also succumb to blind faith. Unfortunately the article provided no arguments in that direction. What I find amazing is how much otherwise seemingly rational people subscribe to blind faith of one type or another. It opens them up to all kinds on manipulation from those they are subservient to. I never could understand this, ah well it is as I suspected all along. I am not smart enough to believe in religion.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Will this become a national issue?

What I find amazing is how much otherwise seemingly rational people subscribe to blind faith of one type or another. It opens them up to all kinds on manipulation from those they are subservient to.

Religion makes manifest and articulate that which we cannot otherwise understand or even perceive, in the (often human-like) forms, deeds and words that we can recognize.

It does not open us up to the manipulation you decry. Our minds and emotions have always and remain always open to such manipulation. But just as religion can make manifest that which would otherwise escape our awareness, so can it make more manifest the manipulations thereof.

[centsless]

Re: Will this become a national issue?

Your posting is very timely. Our local PBS channel has just started playing all the old classic Twilight Zone episodes, I'll be looking for this one.

Ya, that was just one I always remembered. Well that and Capt. Kirk's wing monster. I'm not sure what the episode was called. I think maybe it was Prelude to a Klingon or something like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhk4HcxhZQM

[loweyecue]

Re: Will this become a national issue?

Religion makes manifest and articulate that which we cannot otherwise understand or even perceive, in the (often human-like) forms, deeds and words that we can recognize.

It does not open us up to the manipulation you decry. Our minds and emotions have always and remain always open to such manipulation. But just as religion can make manifest that which would otherwise escape our awareness, so can it make more manifest the manipulations thereof.

The trite response to that would be one should not make presumptions about the ability of others to perceive or understand certain things without the assistance of religion. That may be true for some but should not be a generalization.

Since the earliest recognized history of human civilization people have perceived supernatural powers etc, and the perception itself was not based on some belief system dictated by others. My position is the belief in god can be achieved without subscribing to some rigorous pre-ordained ritualized behavior that has no relevance of any kind to anything other than potentially re-affirming that which people choose to believe.

Only too often do I see people so involved in religion that god has almost no place in their minds. Religion was supposed to be the way to god, it wasn't supposed to become god. That's where it switches gears from being an individuals journey to god to the self righteous zeal of bigoted people who only care about victimizing non-believers.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Will this become a national issue?

The trite response to that would be one should not make presumptions about the ability of others to perceive or understand certain things without the assistance of religion. That may be true for some but should not be a generalization.

I agree with your comments (if I understand them properly) on alternatives to formal religion.

My post to which you replied was poorly worded. When I said "religion" I did not mean just formal religious organizations, but rather I was referring to the wide range of spiritual and religious awareness and practices, public or private.

Yes, religion can lead to unhealthy "self righteous zeal".

My earlier point stands. Religion (in the broad sense) does not open us up to manipulation. Rather only it manifests what was already implicit. Even those with an IQ lower than an Afghan Hound (world's dumbest dog) and without a religious or spiritual bone on their bodies can be manipulated.

[lsa420]

Re: Will this become a national issue?

This is a really big deal amongst the rapture crowd. I know a guy who is constantly warning me about all the secret chips in TV's, Cell phones, Computers... He sees conspiracies everywhere and views them as a sign of the end times. He has taken his dogs to the shelter at least once in anticipation of the rapture in a few days. I find it very sad that people would choose to live in such constant fear. For a few hours every week or so I try to talk to him about gardening or weather or whatever, just to distract him from the concern that the end may come today.

Actually, my brother and I were just talking yesterday about starting a business together. For an annual fee we would come and get your pets after the rapture and raise them in a very luxurious open area. We were thinking of calling it, Rapture Park.

I find your friends concern puzzling. If he is a believer - isn't the rapture something that should be embraced? Isn't that what it's all about? What's he so afraid of?

And I'm pretty sure that Christian pets will be raptured along with their owners. Tell your friend not to worry about his dogs - they'll be with him in paradise!