Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

SS Broke? FIRE at work

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • SS Broke? FIRE at work




    Don't look now. But even as the bank bailout is winding down, another huge bailout is starting, this time for the Social Security system.

    A report from the Congressional Budget Office shows that for the first time in 25 years, Social Security is taking in less in taxes than it is spending on benefits.

    Instead of helping to finance the rest of the government, as it has done for decades, our nation's biggest social program needs help from the Treasury to keep benefit checks from bouncing -- in other words, a taxpayer bailout.
    No one has officially announced that Social Security will be cash-negative this year. But you can figure it out for yourself, as I did, by comparing two numbers in the recent federal budget update that the nonpartisan CBO issued last week.

    The first number is $120 billion, the interest that Social Security will earn on its trust fund in fiscal 2010 (see page 74 of the CBO report). The second is $92 billion, the overall Social Security surplus for fiscal 2010 (see page 116).

    This means that without the interest income, Social Security will be $28 billion in the hole this fiscal year, which ends Sept. 30.

    Why disregard the interest? Because as people like me have said repeatedly over the years, the interest, which consists of Treasury IOUs that the Social Security trust fund gets on its holdings of government securities, doesn't provide Social Security with any cash that it can use to pay its bills. The interest is merely an accounting entry with no economic significance.

    Social Security hasn't been cash-negative since the early 1980s, when it came so close to running out of money that it was making plans to stop sending out benefit checks. That led to the famous Greenspan Commission report, which recommended trimming benefits and raising taxes, which Congress did. Those actions produced hefty cash surpluses, which until this year have helped finance the rest of the government.

    But even then, it was clear the surpluses would be temporary. Now, years earlier than projected, Social Security is adding to the government's borrowing needs, even though the program still shows a surplus on paper.

    If you go to the aforementioned pages in the CBO update and consult the tables on them, you see that the budget office projects smaller cash deficits (about $19 billion annually) for fiscal 2011 and 2012. Then the program approaches break-even for a while before the deficits resume.

    Social Security currently provides more than half the income for a majority of retirees. Given the declines in stock prices and home values that have whacked millions of people, the program seems likely to become more important in the future as a source of retirement income, rather than less important.

    It would have been a lot simpler to fix the system years ago, when we could have used Social Security's cash surpluses to buy non-Treasury securities, such as government-backed mortgage bonds or high-grade corporates that would have helped cover future cash shortfalls. Now it's too late.

    Even though an economic recovery might produce some small, fleeting cash surpluses, Social Security's days of being flush are over.

    To be sure -- three of the most dangerous words in journalism -- the current Social Security cash deficits aren't all that big, given that Social Security is a $700 billion program this year, and that the government expects to borrow about $1.5 trillion in fiscal 2010 to cover its other obligations, about the same as it borrowed in fiscal 2009.

    But this year's Social Security cash shortfall is a watershed event. Until this year, Social Security was a problem for the future. Now it's a problem for the present.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/focus-retir...-readytoretire

    Tip of the hat to Jesse's Cafe. His comment:

    06 February 2010

    Social Security Is Broke: Beware of Economists Bearing Propaganda

    Social Security is broke and will need a bailout.

    It is broke IF the Treasury defaults on all its bonds issued to the Social Security Administration, not only in its interest payments, but also in the trillions of underlying principal.

    It is broke IF you expect Social Security to act as a cash cow to subsidize other government spending as it had done in the past, in a period of exceptionally low interest rates and diminished tax income receipts.

    It is broke if there is no recovery, and Social Security taxes never increase.

    It is broke IF the US government stops paying interest on its obligations and simply steals the money, defaulting on its obligations as if we have no substance.

    We are not talking about future payments. We are talking about the confiscation of taxes already received, and of Treasury bonds. Granted those Bonds are not traded publicly, but the principle is the same. It is about the full faith and confidence of the US government.

    I am absolutely shocked that an editor of a major US financial publication would so blithely presume to suggest that the Treasury debt is no good, and that it can default, albeit selectively, at will. At the same time they promote a 'strong dollar' out of the other sides of their mouth. Do they think we are idiots? It appears so.

    We have not quite reached this point yet. But it may be coming.

    Is this a play to resurrect the Bush proposal to channel the Social Security Funds to Wall Street? It seems as though it might be. Or merely to set Social Security up for 'cuts' as the financial sector crowds out even more of the real economy through acts of accounting theft and seignorage.

    If this is what passes for economic thought and reporting, and can be sponsored by a major mainstream media outlet from one of its editors, God help the United States of America.

    http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot...beware-of.html

  • #2
    Re: SS Broke? FIRE at work

    Isn't this old news? I mean, we've known about the SS ponzi scheme for years.

    We have a tsunami coming and people think sandbags are going to stop it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: SS Broke? FIRE at work

      more from the cafe:

      Is this merely a play to resurrect the Bush proposal to channel the Social Security Funds to Wall Street? It seems as though it might be. Or merely another facet of a propaganda campaign to set Social Security up for more reductions besides fraudulent COLA adjustments as the financial sector crowds out even more of the real economy through acts of accounting theft and seignior-age.

      Let us remember that if the Social Security Fund is diverted from government obligations, the Treasury will be compelled to issue even more debt into the private markets to try and finance the general government obligations. The only difference will be that Wall Street will be able to extract more fees from a greater share of the economy. That is what this is all about, pure and simple. Fees and subsidies for the FIRE sector.

      It should be kept in mind that Social Security payments feed almost directly into consumption, which is a key factor to GDP in a balanced economy.

      What next? Commercials depicting old people as rats scurrying through the national pantry, feeding on the precious stores of the nation? How about the mentally and physically disabled? Aren't they a drain on SS as well? Better deal with them. Some blogs and chat boards are calling for a population reduction, and the shedding of undesirables, as defined by them. This Wall Street propaganda feeds that sort of ugliness. "It can't happen here" is as deadly an assumption as "It's different this time."

      If this is what passes for economic thought and reporting, sponsored by a major mainstream media outlet from one of its editors, God help the United States of America. It has lost its mind, temporarily, but will likely lose its soul if it does not honor its oaths, especially that to uphold the Constitution against all threats, foreign and domestic.

      Comment


      • #5
        Re: SS Broke? FIRE at work

        Originally posted by tastymannatees View Post
        Full bore PONZI - your average accountant could see this one coming

        From Shadowstats
        This is junk thinking. What sense would it make for the government to suck in all the money that it printed? We would all be broke.

        As a country we could decide to give any group of folks a monthly check. If we decided to give teenagers a 20,000 check each month, I am sure our whole economy would be geared differently. Everyone would scramble to find ways to suck that money out of teenager's pocket. Unfortunately most teenagers would blow it all, save nothing, borrow against it, and demand more. Before long they are just using the monthly check to pay expenses and on debt, while the money ends up in the elites hands. Before long there is no way for people to build an economy around teenagers, because it all goes directly to the elite.

        I guess my point is, all those trillions spent went somewhere. Someone has it. It didnt go poof. Most of it went to the top and they have no incentive to give it back. They just want the rest of us to keep passing GO, collecting our monthly checks and giving it to them.

        Replace teenager check with government worker check, unemployment check, social security check, etc etc. its all the same. The elite can cause inflation buy spending more of their accumulated stash or deflation buy hoarding it. The elite can tell the government to give out more cash or stop giving it out as much cash. Or tax more, tax less. Hence Democrats always want to spend more, Republicans want to tax less. Its all the same bullshit.

        The only way to stop the flow of cash to the top is a change of behavior in the society. Living below our means and saving a portion of our monthly checks. The great middle class of the USA that fueled the World for soo many years by (living bleow our means and saving) has slowly, carefully been smashed.

        Now what?

        Comment


        • #6
          Re: SS Broke? FIRE at work

          Social Security went into effect in 1935. Working people contribute to the assistance of workers too old to work or disabled workers. It was never created as a private account to draw upon after retiring. That's a neo-liberalism myth used to divide and conquer the sheeple.

          It has always been in the black. Name a government program that can equal 75 years of solvency. The excess contributions, amounting to over $2 Trillion, have been rolled into the general fund as a matter of course. In 1983 the Greenspan Commision on SS concluded an increase in SS withholding was necessary to maintain the program. This was generally accepted by the contributors. Many feel this increase was in reality to cover the Reagan tax cuts to the upper 10%.

          What is a Ponzi scheme?

          A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk. In many Ponzi schemes, the fraudsters focus on attracting new money to make promised payments to earlier-stage investors and to use for personal expenses, instead of engaging in any legitimate investment activity.

          http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

          I fail to see the connection.

          Comment


          • #7
            Re: SS Broke? FIRE at work

            It is a Ponzi in the sense that all the money that was collected for social security has been spent to fund other gov. programs, and then some.
            SS is in the black on paper, but the money is not there anymore.

            Comment


            • #8
              Re: SS Broke? FIRE at work

              Originally posted by big67 View Post
              It is a Ponzi in the sense that all the money that was collected for social security has been spent to fund other gov. programs, and then some.
              SS is in the black on paper, but the money is not there anymore.
              Apparently Ponzi has come to mean any financial fraud.

              Another bastardization pollutes the main stream....

              Comment


              • #9
                Re: SS Broke? FIRE at work

                Originally posted by Crazyfingers View Post
                This is junk thinking. What sense would it make for the government to suck in all the money that it printed? We would all be broke.
                They're just making a point by showing that it is impossible to pay off the debt even if we did crazy stuff like tax everyone's income 100%.

                Originally posted by Crazyfingers View Post
                I guess my point is, all those trillions spent went somewhere. Someone has it. It didnt go poof.
                We've been deficit spending for years and years without blowing up our bonds, guess how?

                Originally posted by Crazyfingers View Post
                The only way to stop the flow of cash to the top is a change of behavior in the society. Living below our means and saving a portion of our monthly checks. The great middle class of the USA that fueled the World for soo many years by (living bleow our means and saving) has slowly, carefully been smashed.

                Now what?
                Unfortunately there is no movement to do such a thing and most don't believe they have to, they would bitterly oppose it. We're probably headed for some sort of ugly financial crisis.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Re: SS Broke? FIRE at work

                  Originally posted by don View Post
                  Apparently Ponzi has come to mean any financial fraud.
                  People also call it that because the only way they were able to make it work on paper was to have a continuously growing tax base (base of the pyramid) that had to have a much larger/younger group than those collecting on SS (top of the pyramid) constantly putting more and more money into it.

                  You of course cannot do that forever, it would've failed eventually on its own, it just would've taken longer. In that way SS has been the longest running ponzi pyramid scheme in history.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Re: SS Broke? FIRE at work

                    Originally posted by don View Post
                    Apparently Ponzi has come to mean any financial fraud.

                    Another bastardization pollutes the main stream....
                    Then come up with another name for it.

                    Whatever you call it, it is taking money from people with the promise to pay it back later, at a rate that is unsustainable. It requires an ever increasing base paying in because the money promised to be paid out can not possibly be funded by that taken in. Ponzi relied on an increasing number of victims also. So I do see similarities. The fact the government is pilfering those SS funds for the general fund doesn't mean the SS "trust fund" was ever going to be able to pay out as now promised. Yes the origins of SS were as you say, meant for little old ladies and other financially needy. But the truth is, it is being passed off today( and for many years) as a retirement plan, pure and simple. It promised to miraculously pay out amounts that any good actuarial table would show to be unsustainable. In that way it resembles a Ponzi scheme, while not necessarily meeting the exact definition. It also resembles a Ponzi in the fact that those who got in early on the scheme benefited most, while those at the end will get nothing. Writing "robbing Peter to pay Paul" takes too many keystrokes. People like short catchy phrases.

                    And as far as that US govt website definition of Ponzi scheme, surely you don't expect them to openly describe on their own website something that resembles in any way what they are doing to us.

                    From Wiki

                    Similar schemes

                    • A pyramid scheme is a form of fraud similar in some ways to a Ponzi scheme, relying as it does on a mistaken belief in a nonexistent financial reality, including the hope of an extremely high rate of return. However, several characteristics distinguish these schemes from Ponzi schemes:
                      • In a Ponzi scheme, the schemer acts as a "hub" for the victims, interacting with all of them directly. In a pyramid scheme, those who recruit additional participants benefit directly. (In fact, failure to recruit typically means no investment return.)
                      • A Ponzi scheme claims to rely on some esoteric investment approach (insider connections, etc.) and often attracts well-to-do investors; whereas pyramid schemes explicitly claim that new money will be the source of payout for the initial investments.
                      • A pyramid scheme is bound to collapse much faster because it requires exponential increases in participants to sustain it. By contrast, Ponzi schemes can survive simply by persuading most existing participants to "reinvest" their money, with a relatively small number of new participants.


                    • "Robbing Peter to pay Paul": When debts are due and the money to pay them is lacking, whether because of bad luck or deliberate theft, debtors often make their payments by borrowing or stealing from other investors they have. It does not follow that this is a Ponzi scheme, because from the basic facts set out there is no indication that the lenders were promised unrealistically high rates of return via claims of unusual financial investments. Nor (from these basic facts) is there any indication that the borrower (banker) is progressively increasing the amount of borrowing ("investing") to cover payments to initial investors.
                    I think what we are describing here has elements of both Ponzi and Robbing Peter to pay Paul. While not accurate, I think Ponzi will take on a generic connotation to describe any situation with elements of the two above, and not just literal investment fraud.

                    From the Cato Institute
                    http://www.socialsecurity.org/daily/05-11-99.html
                    Last edited by flintlock; February 08, 2010, 09:32 AM.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X