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  • Intelligently Designed

    Flock Is Now a Fight Team in Some Ministries



    By R. M. SCHNEIDERMAN

    MEMPHIS — In the back room of a theater on Beale Street, John Renken, 42, a pastor, recently led a group of young men in prayer.

    “Father, we thank you for tonight,” he said. “We pray that we will be a representation of you.”

    An hour later, a member of his flock who had bowed his head was now unleashing a torrent of blows on an opponent, and Mr. Renken was offering guidance that was not exactly prayerful.

    “Hard punches!” he shouted from the sidelines of a martial arts event called Cage Assault. “Finish the fight! To the head! To the head!”

    The young man was a member of a fight team at Xtreme Ministries, a small church near Nashville that doubles as a mixed martial arts academy. Mr. Renken, who founded the church and academy, doubles as the team’s coach. The school’s motto is “Where Feet, Fist and Faith Collide.”

    Mr. Renken’s ministry is one of a small but growing number of evangelical churches that have embraced mixed martial arts — a sport with a reputation for violence and blood that combines kickboxing, wrestling and other fighting styles — to reach and convert young men, whose church attendance has been persistently low. Mixed martial arts events have drawn millions of television viewers, and one was the top pay-per-view event in 2009.

    Recruitment efforts at the churches, which are predominantly white, involve fight night television viewing parties and lecture series that use ultimate fighting to explain how Christ fought for what he believed in. Other ministers go further, hosting or participating in live events.

    The goal, these pastors say, is to inject some machismo into their ministries — and into the image of Jesus — in the hope of making Christianity more appealing. “Compassion and love — we agree with all that stuff, too,” said Brandon Beals, 37, the lead pastor at Canyon Creek Church outside of Seattle. “But what led me to find Christ was that Jesus was a fighter.”

    The outreach is part of a larger and more longstanding effort on the part of some ministers who fear that their churches have become too feminized, promoting kindness and compassion at the expense of strength and responsibility.

    “The man should be the overall leader of the household,” said Ryan Dobson, 39, a pastor and fan of mixed martial arts who is the son of James C. Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family, a prominent evangelical group. “We’ve raised a generation of little boys.”

    These pastors say the marriage of faith and fighting is intended to promote Christian values, quoting verses like “fight the good fight of faith” from Timothy 6:12. Several put the number of churches taking up mixed martial arts at roughly 700 of an estimated 115,000 white evangelical churches in America. The sport is seen as a legitimate outreach tool by the youth ministry affiliate of the National Association of Evangelicals, which represents more than 45,000 churches.





    Roughly 100 young men, many sporting shaved heads and tattoos, attend fight parties at Canyon Creek near Seattle, watching bouts on the church’s four big-screen televisions. Vendors hustle hot dogs and “Predestined to Fight” T-shirts. About half are not church members but heard about the parties through friends, said Mr. Beals, who is known as the Fight Pastor.

    Men ages 18 to 34 are absent from churches, some pastors said, because churches have become more amenable to women and children. “We grew up in a church that had pastel pews,” said Tom Skiles, 37, the pastor of Spirit of St. Louis Church in Arnold, Mo. “The men fell asleep.”

    In focusing on the toughness of Christ, evangelical leaders are harking back to a similar movement in the early 1900s, historians say, when women began entering the work force. Proponents of this so-called muscular Christianity advocated weight lifting as a way for Christians to express their masculinity.

    “This whole generation is raised on the idea that they’re in a culture war for the heart and soul of America,” said Stephen Prothero, a professor of religion at Boston University.

    Paul Burress, 35, a chaplain and fight coach at Victory Baptist Church in Rochester, said mixed martial arts had given his students a chance to work on body, soul and spirit. “Win or lose, we represent Jesus,” he said. “And we win most of the time.”

    But on that cold night in Memphis, Mr. Renken, the pastor from Xtreme Ministries, watched as two of his three fighters were beaten, one emerging with a broken ankle.

    Another, Jesse Johnson, 20, a potential convert, was subdued in a chokehold and decided not to return home with the other church members after his bout. He stayed in Memphis, drinking and carousing with friends along Beale Street, this city’s raucous, neon-lighted strip joints.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/us...ef=todayspaper



  • #2
    Re: Intelligently Designed

    To call this martial arts only demonstrates the complete ignorance of whoever makes such a call. . .If ignorance were wealth, the world would have a booming economy :p

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Intelligently Designed

      Originally posted by KGW View Post
      To call this martial arts only demonstrates the complete ignorance of whoever makes such a call. . .If ignorance were wealth, the world would have a booming economy :p
      MMA is not martial arts??? Or blending fighting with religion?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Intelligently Designed

        These two sentences jumped out at me. With leadership like this, you can go far.



        “Compassion and love — we agree with all that stuff, too,” said Brandon Beals, 37, the lead pastor at Canyon Creek Church outside of Seattle. “But what led me to find Christ was that Jesus was a fighter.”


        The outreach is part of a larger and more longstanding effort on the part of some ministers who fear that their churches have become too feminized, promoting kindness and compassion at the expense of strength and responsibility.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Intelligently Designed

          I'll group this with the " Jesus wants you to be rich " crowd. People twist religion into anything they want it to be, and anything that will suit their personal ambitions and desires. So now Jesus was an ass kicker huh? :rolleyes:

          This "church" would be better served by just being honest and saying, " I think this is a way to get men to hear a message that they ordinarily would not hear. Plus It's a cool way for me to get to do something I enjoy, along with a tax exempt status".
          Last edited by flintlock; February 03, 2010, 09:30 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Intelligently Designed

            Originally posted by flintlock View Post
            I'll group this with the " Jesus wants you to be rich " crowd. People twist religion into anything they want it to be, and anything that will suit their personal ambitions and desires. So now Jesus was an ass kicker huh? :rolleyes:

            ...
            Seems to be a long way from the Sermon on the Mount admonition to "turn the other cheek"...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Intelligently Designed

              Originally posted by flintlock View Post
              I'll group this with the " Jesus wants you to be rich " crowd. People twist religion into anything they want it to be, and anything that will suit their personal ambitions and desires. So now Jesus was an ass kicker huh? :rolleyes:

              This "church" would be better served by just being honest and saying, " I think this is a way to get men to hear a message that they ordinarily would not hear. Plus It's a cool way for me to get to do something I enjoy, along with a tax exempt status".

              I can agree with the "We've raised a generation of little boys" quote. But unless I read the wrong version of the Bible, almost nothing about Jesus had anything to do with physically fighting anyone. Just because you don't beat out someone's brains doesn't make you a pussy. This "new age" type of Christianity that is tailored to gratify personal needs instead of serving the Lord is one reason I quit attending church on a regular basis. Many now more resemble country clubs than churches. But to each his own I guess.
              Well said.

              These people are heretics. They are self-appointed, "success" anointed and accountable to no one. If you feel the need to puke then take this link - it should clean your stomach out. http://www.inplainsite.org/html/tele...ifestyles.html

              After you're through throwing up take this link. http://www.oca.org/DIRlists.parish.s...STATE&x=18&y=9

              These are some of the Orthodox Churches in Georgia.
              The teaching and worship found here hasn't changed in 2000 years.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Intelligently Designed

                And he's not much of a kicker. This is how it's done at the Olympic level at the US team trials. I believe Ms. Hasnain (in red) is about to take a brief nap.



                Charlotte Craig striking Anees Hasnain in Olympic Trials Finals, Des Moines, IA
                Photo by Michael Hart, Tae Kwon Do Times Magazine
                Last edited by thriftyandboringinohio; February 03, 2010, 09:05 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Intelligently Designed

                  Originally posted by Raz View Post
                  Well said.

                  These people are heretics. They are self-appointed, "success" anointed and accountable to no one. If you feel the need to puke then take this link - it should clean your stomach out. http://www.inplainsite.org/html/tele...ifestyles.html

                  After you're through throwing up take this link. http://www.oca.org/DIRlists.parish.s...STATE&x=18&y=9

                  These are some of the Orthodox Churches in Georgia.
                  The teaching and worship found here hasn't changed in 2000 years.

                  Not fond of either link, to each his own.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Intelligently Designed

                    Originally posted by swgprop View Post
                    Not fond of either link, to each his own.
                    I don't care what or what not you happen to be fond of.
                    I posted both so an inquisitive person could investigate the difference.

                    At the present time in what's left of our republic you are free to be fond or not fond of any link to anywhere,
                    and I'm free to not be fond of your opinion.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Intelligently Designed

                      Originally posted by Raz View Post
                      I don't care what or what not you happen to be fond of.
                      I posted both so an inquisitive person could investigate the difference.

                      At the present time in what's left of our republic you are free to be fond or not fond of any link to anywhere,
                      and I'm free to not be fond of your opinion.
                      I'm honored.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Intelligently Designed

                        Originally posted by swgprop View Post
                        I'm honored.
                        You're welcome.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Intelligently Designed

                          Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                          Seems to be a long way from the Sermon on the Mount admonition to "turn the other cheek"...
                          Haven't you ever wondered what happens when you run out of cheeks? Here is the answer.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Intelligently Designed

                            Originally posted by flintlock View Post
                            I'll group this with the " Jesus wants you to be rich " crowd. People twist religion into anything they want it to be, and anything that will suit their personal ambitions and desires. So now Jesus was an ass kicker huh? :rolleyes:

                            This "church" would be better served by just being honest and saying, " I think this is a way to get men to hear a message that they ordinarily would not hear. Plus It's a cool way for me to get to do something I enjoy, along with a tax exempt status".
                            Flintlock,

                            I have spent my life in the church. My first 50 years as laity and the last ten as clergy. Perhaps you could share a little insight into you experience with church as my experience has not been the same as yours.

                            When I left the business world for the ministry world I pursued a Master's degree in Divinity at my own personal cost. My income in ministry is one third or less than what it was in business. Yes, I do have some tax savings but I am not tax exempt: Ministers pay self employment tax - in other words double what employees in the business world pay. Ministers are generally excluded from unemployment compensation so when I am laid off it comes out of savings and not the government. And working in the church is not about employment for me, rather it is what I perceive to be a calling from God to serve humanity in many ways including people with dementai, people with many illnesses, and educating people in Christian values and leading others much the same way Christ actually did. There are elements of joy and excitement in ministry but the challenges can be the same or sometimes greater as those in the business world - been in both and done both. If it were not about calling I would be a fool to not hang out my brokers liscense today and go for the big bucks.

                            Cindy
                            Last edited by cindykimlisa; February 03, 2010, 03:29 PM. Reason: correction

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Intelligently Designed

                              Originally posted by cindykimlisa View Post
                              Flintlock,

                              I have spent my life in the church. My first 50 years as laity and the last ten as clergy. Perhaps you could share a little insight into you experience with church as my experience has not been the same as yours.

                              When I left the business world for the ministry world I pursued a Master's degree in Divinity at my own personal cost. My income in ministry is one third or less than what it was in business. Yes, I do have some tax savings but I am not tax exempt: Ministers pay self employment tax - in other words double what employees in the business world pay. Ministers are generally excluded from unemployment compensation so when I am laid off it comes out of savings and not the government. And working in the church is not about employment for me, rather it is what I perceive to be a calling from God to serve humanity in many ways including people with dementai, people with many illnesses, and educating people in Christian values and leading others much the same way Christ actually did. There are elements of joy and excitement in ministry but the challenges can be the same or sometimes greater as those in the business world - been in both and done both. If it were not about calling I would be a fool to not hang out my brokers liscense today and go for the big bucks.

                              Cindy
                              forgive me... i'm old & confused.

                              ...spent my life in the church. My first 50 years as laity and the last ten as clergy.
                              50 + 10 = 60.

                              before that a life in the commercial/material world... assume as an adult > 30 yrs old? to maybe 40?

                              so you are 100 or so?

                              hat's off... pray i'm ever as sharp as you at your age.

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