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**Chomsky** · January 31, 2010, 12:55 PM

Re: Obama's leadership

Talk is cheap. Let's see some action.

**c1ue** · January 31, 2010, 01:09 PM

Re: Obama's leadership

More ridiculous crap from the Mullet Man.

Obama has still failed to keep any campaign promise except for sending more troops to Afghanistan.

Now he's replicating the supposed evil Republican/Bush tax cuts.

Change You Can Believe In...Not

**we_are_toast** · January 31, 2010, 01:16 PM

Re: Obama's leadership

Hey MulaMan,

Tone it down a bit. Retards, Scumbags... no need for it here at iTulip.

Plenty of room to have a political discussion without the, in your face attitude. Also plenty of websites out there that are more than happy to post that style. It's kind of nice to differ with fellow iTulipers without it breaking down into a barroom fight.

**loweyecue** · January 31, 2010, 01:58 PM

Re: Obama's leadership

Originally posted by we_are_toast View Post

Hey MulaMan,

Tone it down a bit. Retards, Scumbags... no need for it here at iTulip.

Plenty of room to have a political discussion without the, in your face attitude. Also plenty of websites out there that are more than happy to post that style. It's kind of nice to differ with fellow iTulipers without it breaking down into a barroom fight.

"Ridiculous crap from the Mullet Man" isn't exactly polite either is it? Lets call it equally on both sides then.

**Ghent12** · January 31, 2010, 02:07 PM

Re: Obama's leadership

I thought the thread title was supposed to be an oxymoron, identical to "Bush's Intelligence" or a similar farce. Clicked on it from the front page so I had no idea who the poster was. Obama has leadership alright, but only in and around the DoD, NSA, House, and Senate. He's in way, way over his head and it shows everywhere except in certain geographically remote areas.

**Starving Steve** · January 31, 2010, 02:59 PM

Re: Obama's leadership

From Obama and the Demos, we have gotten NOTHING. ZERO. ZIP. NADA. LIES. RUBBISH. BASURA. BOLOGNA-SAUSAGE.

Why? May I speculate: pay-offs to Congress from the health insurance industry? Might I also speculate: a diluted agenda of the Demo Party thanks to the eco-fraud idiots on the West Coast? Thus, Nancy Pelosi's leadership is beyond terrible and certainly not very liberal. Windmills amd solar panels are no substitute for national health insurance.

I won't vote for Obama again. Why? Let's start with Bernanke, Geithner, Summers, Pelosi, Lieberman, Feinstein, Boxer, a 2000 page meaningless healthcare bill written by the for-profit private health-insurance industry, Cash-for-Clunkers, stimulus for votes, bail-outs for bankers, a vague and rather diluted foreign policy based upon "understanding the feeeeeeeeeeeeeeelings of the Muslim World", and a meaningless energy policy based upon pot-head hopes of living off of sunlight and wind.

The Demos will be out, and good-riddance. The Demos are just another version of the Republican Party agenda, except with a happy face.

Ron Paul and Bernie Saunders are the only ones I'd keep in Congress.
At least with the Repukes, we'd have nuclear power by now.

Yes, I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for. But the Demos are just as bad, and maybe even worse. The Pelosi Congress proved that point.:rolleyes:

And the corruption in Washington is beyond belief. The entire Constitution has to be re-written for the times we live in because the country can not just drift from election to election, without change, and with the same old and stale ideas. The very moment that the administration loses the confidence of the people, an election should be called. America does not have the luxury of being able to drift, with elections set by the calendar and not the people.

Kids should be talking about a re-write of the U.S. Constitution in American schools, but that kind of talk is never- heard in America's schools. So, we have the corrupt America that we have now, and the nation is dying.

**jpatter666** · January 31, 2010, 03:04 PM

Re: Obama's leadership

Originally posted by loweyecue View Post

"Ridiculous crap from the Mullet Man" isn't exactly polite either is it? Lets call it equally on both sides then.

Fair enough, but MulaMan has made my ignore list (along with several others I suspect). I find his posts full of invective, opinion without corresponding basis in fact -- and I am flat out amazed iTulip has allowed such obvious trolling for so long.

MY opinion -- and don't bother Mula, I don't see your posts anymore.

**Starving Steve** · January 31, 2010, 03:48 PM

Re: Obama's leadership

Originally posted by jpatter666 View Post

Fair enough, but MulaMan has made my ignore list (along with several others I suspect). I find his posts full of invective, opinion without corresponding basis in fact -- and I am flat out amazed iTulip has allowed such obvious trolling for so long.

MY opinion -- and don't bother Mula, I don't see your posts anymore.

Shouldn't you be reading posts from anyone, regardless of whether you agree with their view-points or not?

Why, might I ask, do you need "an ignore list"? That smacks at censorship, intolerance, and maybe immaturity too.

Welcome to the world: there are many diverse view-points to consider, from all over the political spectrum, and from all over the globe. Do you need to be held by the hand?:rolleyes:

**neoken** · January 31, 2010, 03:49 PM

Re: Obama's leadership

Well I actually watched the full video and its fairly entertaining. He can hold his own that's for sure. Most of the Republicans were just spouting the usual talking points. Obama called them out on it, then of course he just turned around and gave his own talking points.

I wish they would have more of this format, its like watching the british house of commons. Like a town hall format but with all the top dog roosters pecking at each other.

**radondude** · January 31, 2010, 04:34 PM

Re: Obama's leadership

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ3rqAoahAw

I bet he wished he had a teleprompter last week...but Joe Biden was there just in case.......

**jpatter666** · January 31, 2010, 04:37 PM

Re: Obama's leadership

Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post

Shouldn't you be reading posts from anyone, regardless of whether you agree with their view-points or not?

Why, might I ask, do you need "an ignore list"? That smacks at censorship, intolerance, and maybe immaturity too.

Welcome to the world: there are many diverse view-points to consider, from all over the political spectrum, and from all over the globe. Do you need to be held by the hand?:rolleyes:

An intelligent reply from you, Steve, and this reply is proof-positive you *haven't* made the list (there are only a few people on it -- and it requires some serious effort on their part to make it ;)).

To be fair, I *did* read MulaMan's postings for some time. Even responded to a few. But, in time I came to the conclusion that reading these postings added no value, had no or little merit -- and were a waste of *my* time which I'd like to think has some level of value as well. If you want to read them, fine, I tried, saw no merit and see no reason why you feel the need to call me out over no longer wishing to do so.

And you might view that your calls for me to do so also as you put it: smack at censorship, intolerance, and maybe immaturity too. :p

**tsetsefly** · January 31, 2010, 04:38 PM

Re: Obama's leadership

Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post

Shouldn't you be reading posts from anyone, regardless of whether you agree with their view-points or not?

Why, might I ask, do you need "an ignore list"? That smacks at censorship, intolerance, and maybe immaturity too.

Welcome to the world: there are many diverse view-points to consider, from all over the political spectrum, and from all over the globe. Do you need to be held by the hand?:rolleyes:

only the government has the power of the gun and the law to censor. A company, forum, forum member, organization can censor if they want as long as force is not used.

There is a difference between expressing diverse points of views and trolling, i believe mulaman does the latter.

And responding to your first post, when you mentioned the constitution. I dont think it has to be rewritten, it just has to be followed and possibly amended. But a constitution today would ridiculous, guranteeing all sorts of "non-rights" as "rights".

**unlucky** · January 31, 2010, 06:59 PM

Re: Obama's leadership

Let me give y'all a brief foreigner's perspective on Obama's first year, for what it's worth.

On military policy, the view from where I'm sitting in Europe is that he has done pretty much what he said he would do, i.e. de-emphasized Iraq and re-focused on Afghanistan. Not sure if the US can still afford that. Obama may be wondering himself at this stage. Overall I'd give him a B since Iraq is still dragging on and the trends in Afghanistan have been unfavourable so far.

On foreign policy more generally, he has made a definte break with the Bush years and re-established the idea that the US will pragmatically pursue its own self interests, but for now through a policy of engagement. The hopes of warniks ("bomb Iran") have been disappointed. The hopes of peaceniks ("make love to Iran") have also been disappointed. He may be under China's thumb to some extent but the jury is still out on that. (E.g. Copenhagen summit). Overall score: A-.

On health care: very hard for foreigners to follow this debate since it has become bogged down in details. Obviously this was a priority for Obama and he pursued it vigorously, but ended up looking like he was forced to compromise core principles. It's a tricky area for any nation, unfortunately in the US it seems to have become infested with ideological dogma, preventing you from finding a pragmatic solution (as some other nations have done). I'd give him a C+.

On the economy: this is definitely a D. Obama relied on the same old failed advisors: Geithner, Summers, Bernanke, the list goes on. There are two possible explanations: either he viewed this as just another plain vanilla recession, to be solved by the usual "technical experts"; or else he was not able to confront the vested interests who want debt servitude to continue. Time will tell; given his recent change of course, we'll just have to wait and see.

Obama took on a lot of problems in his first year and he has succeeded in makng at least some progress on a lot of fronts. He's probably spreading himself too thin. But fundamentally, I think the US is a very conservative nation and needs a strong conservative leader to move forward to the next stage. After big set backs and disappointments, nations need to re-affirm their core beliefs before they can accept the risks of progress. BTW I am not myself a conservative. Obama's biggest problem: he is also not a conservative.

Now I realize that many folks do not appreciate foreigners commenting on their internal affairs. But in fact foreigners do not expect (or hope) that the US will act against its own self-interests. We do hope that the US will act rationally, and therefore with a reasonable level of predictability. On that score Obama looks pretty good compared to recent predecessors ;)

**c1ue** · January 31, 2010, 07:01 PM

Re: Obama's leadership

Just as blind following of the AGW-Climate-Catastrophe expounding IPCC is leaving a trail of hypocritical tears, so too has following the glib talking Obama.

For a President with a historic popular mandate, a filibuster free control of Congress, and supposedly a high degree of intelligence, Obama has accomplished nothing.

Even ignoring the year that has gone by, the ongoing movement of his lips is equally foreboding:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Obama-...2&asset=&ccode=

"A sign of progress," Obama said in his weekly radio and Internet address. "But as we work to create jobs, it is critical that we rein in the budget deficits we've been accumulating for far too long."

Nice. So all the spending last year - the 11 digits worth - was for what? Apparently only saving Banker's jobs (and bonuses).

And now suddenly he's talking about deficit reduction? Even as overseas military expenses continue to grow? Even as the government throws money in all directions via tax cuts? What next - Deficits Don't Matter?

For that matter:

Where are the Democrat/Liberal protests over the overseas conflicts?

There are now more troops involved between Afghanistan and Iraq than were active under Bush.

Where are the acts to restore civil liberties? The closing of Guantanamo? The Patriot Act?

Where is the independence from lobbyists - who are chief of staff in the Treasury department, who head the Attorney General's office, who are assistant Secretary of Defense, who are the Secretary of Agriculture, and on and on?

Where is the financial reform so spoken of as a platform by Obama during his campaign? Is the stonewalling of the CPFA 'reform'?

Anything that is risky, dangerous, offensive, it is a 'We' effort - for weasel.

Where are the public stances Obama supposedly is good for? The principled approaches?

Where is the personal responsibility?

As former Chief Executive Truman stated: "The buck stops here".

Where is the buck stopping now?

buck stops obama.jpg

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