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Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

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  • Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

    Does anyone really think the Fed has the option to end QE in March? I think housing is more on the minds of the Administration than the $ or equity markets.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35058162...ss-real_estate

    Home sales tumble surprise 16.7 percent

    December's drop is largest in more than 40 years

    The Associated Press
    updated 9:39 a.m. PT, Mon., Jan. 25, 2010


    WASHINGTON - Sales of previously occupied homes took their largest drop in more than 40 years last month yet managed to end 2009 with the first annual gain in four years.
    Still, prices plunged by more than 12 percent last year — the sharpest fall since the Great Depression. The price drop for 2009 — to a median of $173,500 — showed the housing market remains too weak to help fuel a sustained economic recovery. Total sales for 2009 were nearly 5.2 million, up about 5 percent from 2008.

    Last month's worse-than-expected showing underscores concerns that the housing market could weaken further after March 31, when the Federal Reserve is set to end its program to buy mortgage securities to keep home loan rates low. Once that program ends, mortgage rates could rise. Adding to the worries, a newly extended homebuyer tax credit is scheduled to run out at the end of April.

    The numbers "clearly indicate that the rebound in housing demand observed so far has been largely supported by government programs," Anna Piretti, senior economist at BNP Paribas, wrote in a research note Monday.

    The poor December showing occurred after Congress extended the tax credit, easing pressure on buyers to act quickly. The credit of up to $8,000 for first-time homeowners had been due to expire Nov. 30. But Congress extended the deadline and expanded it with a new $6,500 credit for existing homeowners who move.

    December's sales fell 16.7 percent to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 5.45 million, from an unchanged pace of 6.54 million in November, the National Association of Realtors said Monday. Sales had been expected to fall by about 10 percent, according to economists surveyed by Thomson Reuters.

    The report "places a large question mark over whether the recovery can be sustained when the extended tax credit expires," wrote Paul Dales, U.S. economist with Capital Economics.

    The median sales price for December was $178,300, up 1.5 percent from a year earlier and the first yearly gain since August 2007. But some of that increase could be due to a drop-off in purchases from first-time buyers who tend to buy less expensive homes.

    Recovery needs healthy housing market
    Sales are now up 21 percent from the bottom a year ago. But they're down 25 percent from the peak more than four years ago.
    A healthy real estate market is needed to help the economy continue recovering from recession
    .
    Last year, first-time buyers were the main driver of the housing market. But their role is shrinking. They accounted for 43 percent of purchases in December, down from about half in November, the Realtors group said.

    The inventory of unsold homes on the market fell about 7 percent to 3.3 million. That's a 7.2 month supply at the current sales pace, close to a healthy level of about six months.
    Lawrence Yun, the Realtors' chief economist, cautioned that the recovery will depend on whether the economy starts adding jobs in the second half of the year.
    Total sales for 2009 closed out the year at 5.16 million, up about 5 percent from a year earlier. And some real estate agents say they feel encouraged. More buyers are shopping around this month than in a typical January, said Kevin O'Shea, an agent with Homes of Westchester Inc. in White Plains, N.Y.
    "There are indications that the economy is coming back, and that makes buyers feel more secure to purchase," he said.

    But many analysts project that home prices, which started to rise last summer, will fall again over the winter. That's because foreclosures make up a larger proportion of sales during the winter months, when fewer sellers choose to put their homes on the market.
    Despite fears that home prices are starting to fall again, some analysts still say the worst is over.
    "We do not believe it is fair to consider this a double dip in the housing market," Michelle Meyer, an economist with Barclays Capital, wrote last week. "The recovery is still under way but hitting some bumps in the road."

    Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

  • #2
    Re: Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

    The Shadow Inventory in some California counties is over 200% of the number on the MLS. Just a speed bump on the road to recovery :rolleyes:

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

      Originally posted by don View Post
      The Shadow Inventory in some California counties is over 200% of the number on the MLS. Just a speed bump on the road to recovery :rolleyes:
      If this Administration is serious about setting a new course then we can forget about housing...it's over. Housing is going to get thrown under the bus as the Dems cut their losses and turn on the bankers...who have done them no favours.

      As Hudson points out, the heroics over housing was all about trying to support asset valuations on behalf of the financial sector. And too many Americans have now figured that out...and of the remainder, well they just see their tax dollars being used to bail out foolish "homeowners" who acted imprudently or worse, were merely speculating.

      Even if one uses the U6 number, more than 8 out of 10 Americans are still employed. And its those voters that now count most, not the soon-to-be foreclosed "homeowner" or the chronically unemployed.

      Wednesday's State of the Union is going to be directed at that 80%+ working constituency who are worried about their income security [jobs], future taxation levels [the deficit & healthcare legislation], educating their kids [skyrocketing college fees], and saving for their retirement [the economy]. If housing is mentioned at all it won't feature very prominently in that speech is my guess...the last thing still-employed Americans want is to bail out underwater homeowners.

      But we've heard wonderful speeches from the Orator in Chief before, so a healthy scepticism as to how committed born-again Dems are to their newfound spirituality will likely prevail [I am not yet convinced], and probably warranted...especially if one is from Missouri. ;)
      Last edited by GRG55; January 25, 2010, 03:07 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

        Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
        If this Administration is serious about setting a new course then we can forget about housing...it's over. Housing is going to get thrown under the bus as the Dems cut their losses and turn on the bankers...who have done them no favours.

        As Hudson points out, the heroics over housing was all about trying to support asset valuations on behalf of the financial sector. And too many Americans have now figured that out...and of the remainder, well they just see their tax dollars being used to bail out foolish "homeowners" who acted imprudently or worse, were merely speculating.

        Even if one uses the U6 number, more than 8 out of 10 Americans are still employed. And its those voters that now count most, not the soon-to-be foreclosed "homeowner" or the chronically unemployed.

        Wednesday's State of the Union is going to be directed at that 80%+ working constituency who are worried about their income security [jobs], future taxation levels [the deficit & healthcare legislation], educating their kids [skyrocketing college fees], and saving for their retirement [the economy]. If housing is mentioned at all it won't feature very prominently in that speech is my guess...the last thing still-employed Americans want is to bail out underwater homeowners.
        this is the the most cheering thing i've read all day. i hope you're right.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

          Originally posted by GRG55 View Post

          so a healthy scepticism as to how committed born-again Dems are to their newfound spirituality will likely prevail [I am not yet convinced], and probably warranted...especially if one is from Missouri. ;)
          I can't speak for the show-me state, but I see a bunch of disillusioned born-again dems here in Ohio. Recent polls show the republican ahead for governor here, despite the fact he was in 2001 a managing director of the investment banking division of Lehman Brothers'. They'd rather have a bankster than a democrat.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

            Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
            If this Administration is serious about setting a new course then we can forget about housing...it's over. Housing is going to get thrown under the bus as the Dems cut their losses and turn on the bankers...who have done them no favours.

            As Hudson points out, the heroics over housing was all about trying to support asset valuations on behalf of the financial sector. And too many Americans have now figured that out...and of the remainder, well they just see their tax dollars being used to bail out foolish "homeowners" who acted imprudently or worse, were merely speculating.

            Even if one uses the U6 number, more than 8 out of 10 Americans are still employed. And its those voters that now count most, not the soon-to-be foreclosed "homeowner" or the chronically unemployed.

            Wednesday's State of the Union is going to be directed at that 80%+ working constituency who are worried about their income security [jobs], future taxation levels [the deficit & healthcare legislation], educating their kids [skyrocketing college fees], and saving for their retirement [the economy]. If housing is mentioned at all it won't feature very prominently in that speech is my guess...the last thing still-employed Americans want is to bail out underwater homeowners.

            But we've heard wonderful speeches from the Orator in Chief before, so a healthy scepticism as to how committed born-again Dems are to their newfound spirituality will likely prevail [I am not yet convinced], and probably warranted...especially if one is from Missouri. ;)

            I doubt they will throw housing under the bus. Most people's retirement nut is in their house.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

              Originally posted by jk View Post
              this is the the most cheering thing i've read all day. i hope you're right.
              now that i thought about it a few more minutes i'd like to spin out the scenario. what you imply leads to more foreclosures and a jingle-mail movement. the banks will not write down their assets voluntarily. so it will happen the other way.

              Originally posted by chomsky
              I doubt they will throw housing under the bus. Most people's retirement nut is in their house.
              not when the asset is underwater. that nut has been washed away already.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

                Originally posted by Chomsky View Post
                I doubt they will throw housing under the bus. Most people's retirement nut is in their house.
                Let's play out the logic of that sort of move.

                Let's suppose you are one of the 80%+ still employed middle-aged Americans...and you are depending on your home for your future retirement [which is why you didn't go crazy withdrawing equity when you re-mortgaged it to get a lower interest rate, and you haven't ever missed a payment].

                How attractive is this pitch from your Federal Government today?
                1. We are allocating new funds of $xxx Billions to help homeowners who cannot make their mortgage payments stay in their homes. Anyone who didn't borrow too much, has never missed a mortgage payment, or who is still earning enough income to pay their bills doesn't qualify.
                2. We are also announcing the new big MAMA program for home buyers [Mortgages Are Made Affordable] with new funding of $xxx Billions to Fannie and Freddie to increase their purchases of new mortgages and newly created MBSs from banks throughout the nation. After all we trust the loan officers, appraisers, borrowers and ratings agencies to do the right thing by the American people, so we see no reason not to keep flooding the banking system with more cash because we just know they are going to lend it to deserving borrowers.
                Last edited by GRG55; January 25, 2010, 03:57 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

                  Originally posted by jk View Post
                  not when the asset is underwater. that nut has been washed away already.

                  Although the number of people with underwater mortgages is crazy high, they are still a minority. The majority of homeowners have equity (many have no mortgages), and don't want the values of their houses to go down, which surely they will if the housing market gets thrown under the bus.

                  No?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

                    Originally posted by jk View Post
                    now that i thought about it a few more minutes i'd like to spin out the scenario. what you imply leads to more foreclosures and a jingle-mail movement. the banks will not write down their assets voluntarily. so it will happen the other way...
                    I put a very big "If" at the beginning. Much will be made of the State of the Union address this week, and it could turn out to be just another speech...let's hope not...but only time will tell.

                    "If" we assume the message is getting through to the White House then you are absolutely correct. There will still be significant efforts through the Federal Housing Finance Agency to support the mortgage markets but, as I posted elsewhere, those efforts are going to be directed to ensuring liquidity in a market made up of qualified, not distressed, borrowers.

                    We all know there is no support for more bank bail outs, and the Dems aren't getting anything from either the voters or the bankers for their efforts to date in that regard. The bankers haven't done them any favours with the obscene bonuses and all the talk about not needing the bail outs in the first place...so let's see if Obama and the Dems actually have the courage to cut them loose from the public life-support.


                    Originally posted by jk View Post
                    not when the asset is underwater. that nut has been washed away already.
                    Exactly. If they do what they say, we are going to see mortgage market triage in terms of where any remaining support program money is directed.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

                      Originally posted by Chomsky View Post
                      Although the number of people with underwater mortgages is crazy high, they are still a minority. The majority of homeowners have equity (many have no mortgages), and don't want the values of their houses to go down, which surely they will if the housing market gets thrown under the bus.

                      No?
                      Nobody "wants" the value of their house to go down, but I don't see any appetite among the prudent and clear-title [no mortgage] homeowners to support the price of housing by using deficit financing to bail out the minority...not now.

                      People who see [rightly or wrongly] their home as an "investment" or as an "enforced savings plan for retirement" don't usually behave the same way as those who are now overlevered and underwater. If your home is for "retirement" then you want it paid off by the time you retire...so you don't repeatedly re-finance and make equity withdrawals to your maximum credit limit every couple of years. And that is part of what is fueling the resentment for the current policy situation...people feel their retirement is in jeapardy because deficits [future taxes] are being used to bail out the banks and their imprudent, underwater neighbours.
                      Last edited by GRG55; January 25, 2010, 04:27 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

                        A home is NOT an investment, the land is but the home is a depreciating asset at best, but really a place to live.

                        LOW home prices are good for Americans. If the policy goals is for more Americans to OWN (debt free) thier home then LOWER home prices are good.

                        HIGH home prices with mortgage debt is good for banks and wall street and real estate agents.

                        Repeat 100 times. LOW home prices good. HIGH home prices bad.


                        Only in America do fools chear when the PRICE of housing thier family goes up! LOL.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

                          Originally posted by Chomsky View Post
                          Although the number of people with underwater mortgages is crazy high, they are still a minority. The majority of homeowners have equity (many have no mortgages), and don't want the values of their houses to go down, which surely they will if the housing market gets thrown under the bus.

                          No?
                          From newsweek:

                          "First American CoreLogic, a data supplier, says that in the July-September period, 18% of all properties with a mortgage were underwater—that is, worth less than the outstanding debt...as of the end of September 2008 (!!!). There are an additional 2.1 million mortgages that are approaching negative equity. These are defined as mortgages within 5% of being in a negative equity position. Negative-equity and near-negative equity mortgages combined account for over 23% of all properties with a mortgage.

                          The distribution of negative equity is heavily skewed to a small number of states. Nevada and Michigan have the highest percentages of negative equity - Nevada led the nation with an estimated 48% and Michigan was second with 39%. Five other states have negative equity shares in excess of 20%: Florida (29%), Arizona (29%), California (27%), Georgia (23%), and Ohio (22%)."

                          And since Ohio and florida are like the most swingingest states of all time, I'm not sure 22 - 29% of homeowners can be ignored since they will be a "motivated electorate" swinging towards the most populist rhetoric.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

                            Originally posted by jk View Post
                            now that i thought about it a few more minutes i'd like to spin out the scenario. what you imply leads to more foreclosures and a jingle-mail movement. the banks will not write down their assets voluntarily. so it will happen the other way...

                            One more observation...the more of this we see, the less support there's going to be for solvent property owners to keep trying to bail out the insolvent or their creditors...
                            Tishman Venture Gives Up Stuyvesant Project
                            A group led by Tishman Speyer Properties has decided to give up the sprawling Peter Cooper Village and Stuyvesant Town apartment complex in Manhattan to its creditors in the collapse of one of the most high-profile deals of the real-estate boom.

                            The decision comes after the venture between Tishman and BlackRock Inc. defaulted on the $4.4 billion debt used to help finance the deal. The venture acquired the 56-building, 11,000-unit property for $5.4 billion in 2006—the most ever paid for a single residential property in the U.S...

                            ...By some accounts, Stuyvesant Town is only valued at $1.8 billion now, less than half the purchase price. By that measure, all the equity investors—including the California Public Employees' Retirement System, a Florida pension fund and the Church of England—and many of the debtholders, including Government of Singapore Investment Corp., or GIC, and Hartford Financial Services Group, are in danger of seeing most, if not all, of their investments wiped out...
                            And here comes the punch line...
                            ...The Stuyvesant Town deal is one of several Tishman Speyer did at the top of the market that the company is trying to save. But the company itself isn't threatened. It took advantage of easy credit and investors' eagerness to buy into real estate during the good times. As a result, it didn't put much of its own cash into deals.

                            Of the $5.4 billion price tag on the Stuyvesant property, Tishman invested only $112 million of its own money, with about $56 million from Jerry Speyer and Rob Speyer, co-chief executives of the New York-based company...

                            ...the strategy backfired because of a slowing New York economy, a heavy debt load and a court ruling hindering the owners' ability to convert rent-controlled units to market rentals. In January, the property depleted what was left in reserve funds and defaulted on its first mortgage...
                            If the big fish are doing it, why wouldn't the small fry "strategically default" in increasing numbers?
                            Last edited by GRG55; January 25, 2010, 06:10 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Can the Fed Really End QE in March, December Home Sales Down 16.7% , Worst Drop in 40 Years.

                              Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                              Let's play out the logic of that sort of move.

                              Let's suppose you are one of the 80%+ still employed middle-aged Americans...and you are depending on your home for your future retirement [which is why you didn't go crazy withdrawing equity when you re-mortgaged it to get a lower interest rate, and you haven't ever missed a payment].

                              How attractive is this pitch from your Federal Government today?
                              1. We are allocating new funds of $xxx Billions to help homeowners who cannot make their mortgage payments stay in their homes. Anyone who didn't borrow too much, has never missed a mortgage payment, or who is still earning enough income to pay their bills doesn't qualify.
                              2. We are also announcing the new big MAMA program for home buyers [Mortgages Are Made Affordable] with new funding of $xxx Billions to Fannie and Freddie to increase their purchases of new mortgages and newly created MBSs from banks throughout the nation. After all we trust the loan officers, appraisers, borrowers and ratings agencies to do the right thing by the American people, so we see no reason not to keep flooding the banking system with more cash because we just know they are going to lend it to deserving borrowers.
                              Unpalatable.

                              More likely he will tout the ongoing efforts and imaginary progress made via the array of existing alphabet soup programs such as HARP and HAMP, HOPE, HAFA. All doomed to fail of course.

                              Comment

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